Kaidan feels very unfinished.

[filosteel]

I'm going throught my first playthrough of this game, as in the old TSW I only played half kingsmouth.
So far I have been thorougly impressed with the work the devs have put into this game. Each zone feels very curated in the details, the quests are interesting and linked, and the end of Transylvania, finding Emma, methaforically blew my mind out. I was left with an amazing sensation, and felt like that quest ending is just art. Wonderful.
And THEN, we finally arrive to Tokyo, the place where it all started. Where all the roads converge. Where all the answers are to be found... and it was a massive let down.
It feels like Kaidan has been thrown together hastily and without particular care.
My biggest complains:

1) I have done 4 "main" quests so far, and they are all exactly the same. Go to point A, defend against waves of enemies, go to point B, defend against wave of enemies, go to point C, defend against wave of enemies, go to point D, defend against wave of enemies. Done. How is this supposed to be interesting?
2) Most enemies have 3 to 5 different area attacks each, and you constantly get stuck over several and several AoEs that knock you down, set you on fire, slow you, and reduce healing. It does not make it hard, I have never died, it just makes it annoying.
3) While in all previous zones the quest descriptions were amazingly written, and each tier of a mission was great to read, now they have skimpy, often one ot two sentences long descriptions. Stuff like "The search continues." Seems really underdone.
4) Why is the main storyline quest even showing up on mission givers? This was never visible in previous zones, and it prevents the mission giver to have a "completed" icon in the map.

The landscape is very nice, as well as the new models for monsters, but beside that I would have expected much more from the final zone, where all the threads are converging.
Why such a low level of care?

[☠ Asasin ☠]

Number 4 is actually a great thing - Each part of the Main story is actually repeatable as a separate mission once you complete the story in Kaidan (aka, you can actually replay the main story).

2 is for increasing difficulty, and it was a pretty effective tool in TSW. It was to get you to mix up your abilities and builds in that game. I can imagine in SWL it's a little more annoying since you're more limited in what your alternatives are.

[Forestt.]

Originally posted by filosteel:

Why such a low level of care?

I think it's more that the level of rework isn't that great or feels a bit off compared to the original basegame zones.

Kaidan worked differently in TSW since the AEGIS system was part of the zone, fighting monsters and how it was needed in missions. In SWL they removed it and therefore had to nerf the whole zone down/ I think that's the main reason it can feel incomplete. Although players that hated Kaidan in TSW due to the higher difficulty + AEGIS system might now enjoy Kaidan more in SWL.

[filosteel]

Originally posted by Forestt:

Kaidan worked differently in TSW since the AEGIS system was part of the zone, fighting monsters and how it was needed in missions. In SWL they removed it and therefore had to nerf the whole zone down/ I think that's the main reason it can feel incomplete. Although players that hated Kaidan in TSW due to the higher difficulty + AEGIS system might now enjoy Kaidan more in SWL.

Yes I understand Kaidan worked differenly before with the aegis, but precisely because it's not there anymore one can't just lower the HP of the enemies and call it a day. The way the enemies fight and their skills should have been reworked as well. As I said, currently Kaidan is not difficult, it is just annoying. For instance, the demons by the bath house always do this pattern: Throw you into the air, then start 3 swipes attack dashing around, then the 3-sector AoE, then throw you into the air a second time, and only then start attacking normally. You are left waiting until the first 4 scheduled attacks are done before being bale to figh back. It's just boring.

The quest are also very plain. The whole story there feels much more watery than in the previous zones, and given this is supposed to be the mother of all, I am quite disappointed in how it has been ported over to the new game. Just ym two cents tho.

Originally posted by ☠ Asasin ☠:

Number 4 is actually a great thing - Each part of the Main story is actually repeatable as a separate mission once you complete the story in Kaidan (aka, you can actually replay the main story).

2 is for increasing difficulty, and it was a pretty effective tool in TSW. It was to get you to mix up your abilities and builds in that game. I can imagine in SWL it's a little more annoying since you're more limited in what your alternatives are.

I disagree with your first point. Or at least, I agree being able to repeat the mission is nice if someone wants to do it again, but then: 1) Why not do it also in the other zones, for consistency? 2) Why does the quest have to be available from the peron also while you are doing it, hence preventing you from having a "completed" mark on the map? I end up always checking the same guys because I think I still have something to do...

Regarding 2, check my reply above to Forestt.

[☠ Asasin ☠]

I have honestly no idea why they didn't rework the main story quests in the earlier zones. Tokyo was a post-release zone in TSW so it was easier for them to develop that system from the ground up, so to speak. Actually I believe all the post-release expansion content worked this way, allowing you to replay their stories.

As for the monster attacks, they are annoying but it also adds depth to the combat that isn't there for most of the game, and I think that is worth recognizing. It's more engaging when you actually have to learn monster attack patterns and know when to dodge.

Aaand as far as the story goes... I stopped playing SWL before Outer Kaidan was released, but I do feel like something got lost in translation. Maybe it's because I had become used to the grind of the original TSW version, so it really did stand out compared to the rest of the game and felt like a true ... grindy challenge. Like you said, you want to expect more because of the significance of the location in the story, but it feels kind of like more of the same. Idk that's my take on it.

[Leogrim]

From what people told me Kaidan is just showing how bad things were inside Funcom at that point, especially in south kaidan there is a lot of empty/unfinished stuff.
It also is the reason why I dislike comparing the funcom at work with SWL and the funcom from TSW.
A lot of the internal issues they had seem to have went the way of the dodo and while it has to be said that they still are not perfect they at least try to get better at it. If one wants to help "finishing" kaidan it's probably the best to screenshot it, write thought and send them in the suggestion box in discord. While it is no given that they can give attention to it while working on season 2 I believe it help to get it to their attention where people see potential for improvement and how we experience the flaws of the area so that they can make it A. better in the future and B. Maybe fix a few things as their manpower permits.

The devs listen a lot when you are willing to keep your grudge at bay and speak about issues.

P.S.:I think that answers the initial question and shares a bit of thought of mine. Really more a personal pov than an iron clayed rule...so feel free to disagree, agree or just add on top of it.^^

[David]

You are SO right! It feels as if a genius designed everything up on to Tokyo, and then left, making the game feel like discount food compared to the real thing. Tokyo is just annoying as hell, and it feels as if there is no story: You are following someone for an hour, and you just don't have a clue to what or who this person/shadow is or why you have to follow it. And then you get thrown of the platform in the end fight and have to start this totally useless sh*t all over again. What a waste of a really fantastic game, with loads of atmosphere and humour and gothic thrills. Tokyo is indeed a big let down.

[DarkPrimus]

There's at least two NPCs that were designed and intended to be quest-givers in Kaidan that aren't present in the game world. I don't know if they were going to ever factor into the main storyline or just give quests off the beaten path, however.

[SwobyJ]

Kaidan is one of my top 3 zones (out of the current 10, launch 8), actually. Not sure about #1 though.

It is technically unfinished though*. As DarkPrimus explained, there's a couple more NPCs that fell through. As well, TSW never did get the lair that SWL eventually got. Still no Kaidan/Tokyo Scenario map.


*However basically all the zones released 'unfinished'. Further missions were added in patches, but they almost all appeared as though they were designed to be in the game in the first place, and Funcom had a hard release date.

[Aquiem]

Was Tokyo the first main zone back in TSW that allowed you to co-op/finish a main story mission in a group?

[☠ Asasin ☠]

Originally posted by A Sexy Widdle Dumpling:

Was Tokyo the first main zone back in TSW that allowed you to co-op/finish a main story mission in a group?

For the main story, yes. Technically the only one.

[Jaq]

Honestly, the stretch from the old Issue 7 (after you finish the "Big Boss" of Transylvania) to the end of Tokyo is by far my favorite part of the game. Tokyo has the most chilling moments, some of the best puzzles and by far the most engaging monsters to fight, even without the AEGIS mechanics. The only things I don't like are the city's droning background music and some painful Harumi dialogue.

When it comes to unfinished zones, I don't see how anything beats Carpathian Fangs. I think that zone has the fewest missions, unless it's South Africa. Transylvania in general is such a slog. All the monsters are mindless damage sponges without any interesting mechanics other than the padurii. The joy of finally getting out of CotSG evaporates so quickly. My alts in both TSW and SWL got stranded in Transylvania for months because I had so little motivation to play anything there prior to Issue 7.

[SwobyJ]

Carpathian Fangs is the most transparently unfinished (with DLCs/updates helping a bit), Kaidan is technically unfinished (though an update to put in the last missions may happen any time), and New Dawn is obviously unfinished (and we'll see what happens with it).

[David]

It's not missing content I am talking about, it is the feel of the game, and the lack thereof in Tokyo - except for the girl and her paranoid brother in the flat, that's the game as I like it. Else, recycling of the intro in the subway from the start of the game, and complete recycling of three bosses in an otherwise promising nightmare! Wut?! Don't tell me this isn't discount!? And Tokyo? Empty, like in lacking atmosphere... exactly what the building with the girl and her brother has lots of!

[☠ Asasin ☠]

Originally posted by David:

It's not missing content I am talking about, it is the feel of the game, and the lack thereof in Tokyo - except for the girl and her paranoid brother in the flat, that's the game as I like it. Else, recycling of the intro in the subway from the start of the game, and complete recycling of three bosses in an otherwise promising nightmare! Wut?! Don't tell me this isn't discount!? And Tokyo? Empty, like in lacking atmosphere... exactly what the building with the girl and her brother has lots of!

I mean, they didn't recycle the "intro in the subway from the start of the game" - the intro was explaining the events going on in the world, but as a new agent you have to work your way up to getting an assignment there.

Otherwise, in SWL it did feel a little hollow. I think it's because in TSW they introduced the AEGIS system with Tokyo which was itself a bit of a grind but it added a slightly different mechanic to the game that made the zone significantly more challenging to begin with.

[SwobyJ]

Yeahhhh the girl and her brother were just about my least favorite parts of the zones so I'll chalk this up to taste.