Why is SEGA pulling off a Activision stunt?

[ƦƴѵŁ]

Why the 10 dollars more scheme? Did SEGA get sued recently and want to improve on lost revenue, or why this bullcrap? This was one of the factors why I never bought a Call of Duty game since MW1. They pulled something like this, but HAD a lot of other issues too, which I won't go into.

I'll be getting the game regardless, but I've noticed a trend with some of the developers adding 10 more dollars to some of these Triple A companies. Look at some of the other titles when they first came out, it wasn't 59.99 and most of them were around 49.99. Look at the latest Saint Rows 4 - 49.99. I've been mainly seeing it from Activision and SEGA.

The main reason why it is SUPPOSE to be 10 dollars cheaper is because it was made on damn computer. You don't see computer users buying a game that was made from console... oh wait, never mind... HI, CALL OF CONSOLE!

I don't know the fine points since that would require me doing some THOROUGH research on the Internet, but this is a lament terms if I say so. I’ve read some people just said, “Just get a job.” Well, it isn’t about having the funds or not, it’s about the damn principle behind it. Why increase it to the same amount as CONSOLE users. People who say that are no better than allowing companies to overprice on a title that is utter sh!t from the gecko. So, would you pay 70 dollars if EA would sell Mass Effect 3 on Steam? Think about that really hard if you have ever played it.

If someone has the FINER points of this discussion, please list them so we ALL may know why SEGA is a money, hungry baron.

[Fluffy Fishy]

I dont beleive it is so much inflation as the rising costs of development not being offset by the increased size of market, for the most part anyway. Inflation does have a consiquence with the pricing in the games industry but the call for better graphics and increasingly complex gameplay is what causes the high price of modern games.

[sinquanto]

引用自 Fluffy Fishy：

I dont beleive it is so much inflation as the rising costs of development not being offset by the increased size of market, for the most part anyway. Inflation does have a consiquence with the pricing in the games industry but the call for better graphics and increasingly complex gameplay is what causes the high price of modern games.

I'm sorry, but games have been $50 in the US for well over a decade... this is very much a case of inflation. I think you'd be hard pressed to find another industry that has not raised the price for their product in over a decade. (talking PC gaming, but even consoles have been $60 since the release of the 360 which was 8 years ago) Your comment is pretty illogical by stating that this is due to the "rising costs of development not being offset by the increased size of market" and "not so much inflation"... that is the definition of inflation, rising your price because the price of other items have increased.

[Fluffy Fishy]

I'm not really too sure. I think when people release a new console they do forward the costs of games a little to over compensate to the costs of development. I think they have been quite sly about it though. They have used dlc to spread costs and services like steam to extend lifespans and things. I dont know masses about specifics to the games market. I am just thinking out aloud. As I see it games are getting more expensive but in ways we sometimes dont think about.

My understanding of inflation is that it is more complex than just prices rising because prices rise elsewhere. That being said I dont fully understand why it happens beyond people pretending it makes things more attractive now.

[sinquanto]

yes, they do build that stuff in, which is why most people think the next gen consoles will be $70 for games. Inflation is much more complex, but we are not talking the CAUSE of inflation here, but the EFFECT of the inflation. The effect is the need to raise prices because it costs more for labor, electricity, rent/mortgage, ect. Anyone who has seriously paid attention to what prices have done over time should be surprised that prices haven't completely skyrocketed. Yes, they have "hidden" this through addons and other items at times. So far, CA has been pretty good on their price to content on their DLC.

[desuTHICC]

You know you could just learn to be patient and just wait for a sale. Don't have to get suckered into pre-orders.

[Serpentor]

引用自 Divinus Exterminatus：

@Chaunsey,

So did Skyrim, GTA 3, SR3, BF3

Problem is that most games that charge this amount of money turn out be big piles of sh!t and you're saying it's ok because gas was 1.50 back then. Did I bring up gas? Not to my knowledge. I don't mind paying 60 dollars, if the game is good. The problem is a lot of these PUBLISHERS are in a 'rush' mode and telling all the developers to hurry up or legal action happens, or cancel of contracts, etc. There have been more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ games today than 5 years ago. Why? Because everyone wants money, they don't give a damn about the content in most of these games.

The other problem is most games don’t have any replay value, lack a manual, and a decent story (That’s being nice…). If that' doesn't fancy their thirst, they'll make new DLC, where you still pay 10.00 - 20.00 (each) USD for the damn thing. I already paid the game that I was told it should have EVERYTHING as promised by the developers, why am I now paying for content that was SUPPOSE to be included???

Why do you think a large amount of companies are going with Kickstarter? They don’t have to depend on a big time publishers like SEGA, who will probably want 60% or so in all acquired funds ( I don’t know, I’m guessing here – show me the FACTS please). Look at Camelot Unchained – same developers who made DaoC, but were really tired of dealing with overpricing, lack of advertisement, and so forth from publishers. Look at Blizzard, they don’t need a publisher, they are their own.

@atombomb562000,
Also, the game is set price with EVERYONE and also provides the free DLC. Remember, this game has to go on Steam like the other Total War games since TW:Empire.

To everyone else saying “inflation” – when did the gaming industry tank? One has to remember the consequences of inflation as well. The higher it goes up, the less likely people will buy it. Just because dog food went up 2 dollars, doesn’t mean a game should go up 10 dollars.

Last note: http://www.polygon.com/2013/4/30/4287382/aliens-colonial-marines-lawsuit-class-action-sega-gearbox

Damn, so they want some of their lost revenue. “Hey guys! Let’s raise all of our games under SEGA to 10 dollars more for us being sued for false advertisement!”

Please read the article, if not, read the third (3rd) last paragraph of the article.

The problem is that the additional 10 dollars isn't going to the developers, it's going to the publishers.

Would you pay for this game if it was set at $150.00 USD, or even gas at $10.00 USD ( I'll bring up gas because someone else did )? Remember: INFLATION!

Inflation has nothing to do with a failing industry, it's all about supply and demand. When corn is in short supply but the demand for corn is high, corn growers have to over charge their corn so they make the same amount of money they did last year to feed their families, thus dog food went up $2. Now, the guy who makes that game needs to make $2 more to buy his dog food, so he passes the $2 on to you. But not only did dog food go up, milk, gas, and all kinds of stuff went up too, so he passed all that on to you. Then his employees starts demanding more wages and salary because they made a few successful games, and on top of all that, you got the publishers wanting their cut, so he passed on that to you too. See the patern? $2 for dog food, $2.50 for gas, $ for this $ for that, and before you know it, you'll be paying $100 for a game even if it is a steamy pile of digested dog food.

This is a good thing because it helps promote indie developers. Some of the best games these last few years are indie games.

Hope this helps.

[Chaunsey]

引用自 Divinus Exterminatus：

I take stuff out of proportion? Again, going about how life sucks. Claiming things I've never once said. Again, I said I'm buying the game, but if you lack reading comprehension, then maybe you should go back to school to educate yourself.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp - In case you failed to see what inflation means. So, you're admitting that they are taking certain merchandise out of a product to save money. Because that's what they care for - money. They don't care about quality, but everything is cheap entertainment in your opinion. Go make love to a lonely hooker then.

--in case you're confused about what that means, it means that companies are actually receiving around 50% LESS money per game than a game at the same price back 10 or 15 years ago.--

Don't see how that works with inflation. If they would raise the product up to 60 dollars instead of the norm being 50 dollars, how are they receiving less when they put less into a product (this includes manuals, bonus cd's/dvd's, time spent on making the product, etc.)? Also, I'm not complaining about the developers, but the publishers. If you can't read through the lines, then go back to school. I'm not going to spoon feed you.

You bring up movies, gas, golfing - what the hell does this have to do with the gaming industry. I asked if it sank and you give me some biased report on your cheap entertainment. I didn't ask what you spent money on, I asked if it sank. If it didn't sink (which it didn't -- hence technology being one of the best fields to get a career in at the moment) then there is no reason to inflate the prices if the market is still going strong in the gaming industry, which it is, but with the fear of XBOX one being a bust for many gamers, I think SEGA wanted to 'hold' onto some extra cash, or bail themselves out due to some recent lawsuits.

If you're saying everything is true, how come only SEGA and Activision are only doing this crap. You keep brushing away these questions with your personal expenses.

Kickstarter is lame - yet many companies have made millions without holding hands by a publisher. Again, show me some facts with your claims. As I stated this is all my opinion and you seem to be rather touchy about it.

DLC and expansions are two different things. Expansions are a huge amount of new material added to the original game. That would like claiming StarCraft 2 Heart of the Swarm isn’t an expansion, but a DLC (New units, new campaign, new UI, new settings, etc.). Lol… seriously? Funny guy! DLC is like Company of Heroes 2 and adding 40 dollars’ worth of skins for your tanks, or Borderlands 2 with all their DLC, or Dawn of War 2 and all of their new skins. DLC doesn’t change game play? Look at Saints Row 3 – a nifty jet to kill your enemies. That isn’t a nice touch to game changing?

An example of promises was by Bioware for Mass Effect 2, but because EA wanted to 'rush' the product, they had to add the 'extra' (original) content at a later time, but was all, again, for money. If you're this blind, then maybe it's a good thing you throw your money at the publishers. They love sheep like you. Here is some more Maaaaaaaaaaney for you publishers!

Since I’m entitled to whatever you’re claiming, then I claim this: In case you're an idiot--Developers make the game, while Publishers market the game (unless companies like Blizzard are involved, then they do it all).

Since you want to be hostile towards me, I'll bring it back. Thanks - Have a good day. :)

im sorry but your claim that CA only cares about money and not quality of their product is ridiculous, first off, the reason people care about quality in their products is because they want to make money, no one puts in extra money into making something good just for the heck of it. your claim is way off base though because CA has ALWAYS delivered high quality with the TW series.

whether sega cares about quality or not, i dont know and i dont care, im not a sega fan, im a CA and TW fan. yes there are penty of developers and publishers putting out ♥♥♥♥ for quick money. but you cant just lump them all together, or you might as well just give up on gaming, you have to use your head to see what devs and games are delivering what you're looking for.


you also seem to be confused about what inflation means, because you say there is no reason for prices to go up when the market is strong, this shows a lack of understanding of what inflation is. inflation is a devaluation of currency, or sometimes, inflationary effects are caused by the increase in cost of commodities and such.

fuel, food, power, these things have all risen in price with inflation, people need these things to live and work, and so salaries, and production costs go up along with inflation, doesnt matter how successful you are, if gas gos up in price, your costs go up, and so you have to either raise prices, cut costs, or eat the extra cost and take in less profits.

the last decade plus has seen gas and many food stuffs double, or triple in price, that is an unavoidable inherent cost that even a completely unrelated industry like game development is effected by.

so, once again, the fact that the cost to develop games, both due to inflation, and also complexity has gone up a huge amount, the developers and publishers have had to BOTH raise prices some, and cut costs. its not that complicated, its just math.

there is also no extra cost here, you keep talking about $60 like its an raised price, it is not, $60 has been standard for big budget games for a very long time, rome 2 cost 40% more to produce than previous total war games.

would you prefer to save $10 but have them cut 40% out of their development budget? i know i wouldnt, in fact if we had a say in the matter i would be happy to pay $20 more if that meant they could invest another 30% or so in the game, imagine how much more content they could add then? buteither way, the game has an incredible amount of content and its a fair price that is no higher than many other comparable games.

your statement that only activision EA etc have this price is incorrect as well.

pretty much every publisher out there sells their big budget games for $60.


finally you're incorrect about dlc vs expansions,expansions are DLC, DLC means downloadable content, reffering to content available for download to add on to an existing game, which could be anything.from a skin, up to a full expansion.

there is tons of ♥♥♥♥ DLC out there absolutely, COH2 releasing like 20 tank skins on day one for $2 a piece was just silly, however it also doesnt effect me at all because i wont buy it.

all that can be said is simply buy what you like, dont buy what you dont like, collectively our spending will dictate the market, no amount of complaining, or defending for that matter will have an effect.

引用自 Devils Never Cry：

Its shocking but i think some people have a really well.. Retarded attidude to things in life haha. Oh this is crap nothing i can do about it guess i have to deal with it.

"ya a lot of games do turn out to be ♥♥♥♥, thats how the world works, deal with it, a lot of movies turn out to be ♥♥♥♥, a lot of cars turn out to be ♥♥♥♥, a lot of phones turn out to be ♥♥♥♥, a lot of relationships turn out to be ♥♥♥♥."

i mean wow...... lol thats just a depressing look at life. Yea nothing is perfect but ♥♥♥♥ most people try and go out look for somthing better if you settle for ♥♥♥♥ your allways going to be stuck in it.

What the OP is saying he dosent want to settle in it and i dont want to ether! Lol

i dont think you get the point of what im saying here.

im not saying that you just need to accept sh!tty stuff, im saying that even when you do your due dilligence, research stuff and think you're spending carefully on something you really want, you still end up ocassionally getting disappointed or even burned.

so it is simply silly to expect some kind of 100% ironclad guarantee that any given thing you buy will be as awesome as you hope it will be.

the best we can do is research your purchases, know what you're looking for, favor quality retailers and producers, even if they cost a little more, and reward companies that do consistantly deliver by being a repeat customer.

if you stick to some of those basic principles you will atleast 9/10 times be at least satisfied with what you got.

that said, we're buying games here, not houses, im not going to spend hours agonizing over a whether or not to make a $60 purchase.

and none of this matters because we're talking about total war here, and they have yet to let me down, they have earned the benefit of the doubt, if they slip up once, then that will change and they will be treated with the same scrutiny and mistrust that a lot of devs get.

[Skyforger]

They are greedy.

[Chaunsey]

引用自 Killjoy：

They are greedy.

so tell us then, what % of profit must they stay under to avoid your "greed" label?

[PJ]

Let's put things back into perspective here..

Movie ticket = 10$
Hours of entertainment brought by the movie = 2 hours, give or take.

10$ / 2 = 5$ ,per hour.

Rome Total war II = 60$
Hours of entertainment brought by the game = 40 to 1000 hours and beyond.

Now let's assume you play the game casually over the course of a year or more, and end up with 100 hours of game time...

60$ / 100 = 0.60$ ,per hour... and that is IF you only play 100 hours,which is by no mean a huge amount for this type of game.

My diagnosis: Rome II gives me more than my money's worth in terms of entertainment.

[ƦƴѵŁ]

@ Chaunsey,

--im sorry but your claim that CA only cares about money and not quality of their product is ridiculous,-- Sorry, but I didn't read anything after that.

-- Also, I'm not complaining about the developers, but the publishers-- my reply from my post earlier.

Explain to me WHERE CA (Creative Assembly) is anywhere in my complaints.I'LL WRITE IN CAPS SINCE YOU CANNOT READ - I HAVE NO, ZILCH, NADA, ZERO PROBLEMS WITH CA, BUT WITH S.E.G.A /SEGA SEEEEEEEEEEGAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

IS THAT BETTER, OR SHALL YOU BUY SOME GLASSES?

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ man. I won't read any more posts from you since apparently you didn't read what I had to say. Good day, moron.

P.S. How much does SEGA pay you?


--------------

Definition of a publisher --

A video game publisher is a company that publishes video games that they have either developed internally or have had developed by a video game developer.

As with book publishers or publishers of DVD movies, video game publishers are responsible for their product's manufacturing and marketing, including market research and all aspects of advertising.

They usually finance the development, sometimes by paying a video game developer (the publisher calls this external development) and sometimes by paying an internal staff of developers called a studio. The large video game publishers also distribute the games they publish, while some smaller publishers instead hire distribution companies (or larger video game publishers) to distribute the games they publish.

Other functions usually performed by the publisher include deciding on and paying for any license that the game may utilize; paying for localization; layout, printing, and possibly the writing of the user manual; and the creation of graphic design elements such as the box design.

Large publishers may also attempt to boost efficiency across all internal and external development teams by providing services such as sound design and code packages for commonly needed functionality.

Because the publisher usually finances development, it usually tries to manage development risk with a staff of producers or project managers to monitor the progress of the developer, critique ongoing development, and assist as necessary. Most video games created by an external video game developer are paid for with periodic advances on royalties. These advances are paid when the developer reaches certain stages of development, called milestones.

---------------


Where can I get my manual again?

[Chaunsey]

you're complaining about the price of the game, CA made the game.

you're assuming that somehow if sega was out of the picture the game would be cheaper.

the budget for this game was 40% higher than any previous total war, so even if you imagine CA somehow selling this game on their own, they would still sell it for $60.

you should actually thank sega, because they've given CA a lot of leeway to do things their own way rahter than try to control them, if it were EA you can bet things would be f'ed up.

they also had the faith to give CA 40% more money to make this game.

you may hate publishers, but without them its rather hard to make good games.

most big name publishers are only making around 5% profit margins that is NOT a lot, and it doesnt take much for them to lose money. yet still they are willing to put up $40 million 2 or more years in advance to make a game, some games costing even far more than that.

GTA 4 cost over $100 million to make, that money has to be spent up front with no guarantee of success.


and yet still, even in all this, with tons of crap games out there, you're complaining about one of the best, or the best game on the market cost the same as every major high end game does.

sorry, but its actually you being greedy here.

[ƦƴѵŁ]

100 million for GTA and sites like this http://www.cracked.com/article_16404_5-reasons-gta-iv-worst-great-game-ever-made.html are saying it isn't that great. I played GTA 4 and to be honest, some of it was utter ♥♥♥♥ at times. Most expensive game made and a lot of critics on it. What's your point? The more it costs the better a game is?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-23-can-camelot-unchained-kickstart-mmos - You honestly think they can't make a kickass MMO without holding hands with a publisher? You're talking about a guy who has made several MMO's and knows wtf he is doing, yet the PUBLISHERS (like EA as he mentioned) screwed him over. Funny, how you are STILL protecting publishers and their greed.


How about this http://www.gamespot.com/news/sega-to-close-stormrise-studio-6406442 - SEGA closing down a studio that MADE TW: Medieval 2 - What's the deal on that?

Remember, the CEOs of the company never have to worry about losing their jobs.

http://www.destructoid.com/anonymous-whistle-blower-claims-gearbox-stole-from-sega-246558.phtml - SEGA still defends itself in laments terms saying lying to the customers is someone else fault, but they were the ones who showed it. Classic. How's the project working out now??? Classic!


http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?547991-Sega-increased-the-budget-by-40-for-Rome-2 -- Point is what? Everyone is having a wonderful time with this 40% increase. One person even said, "I predict we'll be slammed with all kinds of lame DLC... :-( Hope I am wrong." -- What Total War game since empire hasn't released crap loads of DLC???? Just a prediction. But if that doesn't say, "please give us more money." Then I honestly don't know what does. DLC is a nice idea of adding new content, YES, but it really depends how one PRICES it. I've seen DLC from mere cents to 50 dollars (Train game anyone?).



5% profit margins based on earning 30% profit from selling a 60 dollar game?

http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/thefutureofgamepublishinganddevelopment.html#.UdU4js0o6Uk -- several other sites claiming the same thing. Read the whole article; it also mentions how kickstarter is the new 'in' on helping developers make games without PUBLISHERS putting their two cents into everything. HELL yea to Kickstarter.

Even if it took 500,000 to 1,000,000 copies to 'break' even by some of these publishers, no one REALLY knows unless you got their damn financial report. If you honestly are going to say percentages, numbers, and finances, then show US (the gamers) proof that SEGA is being a fair publisher. Show me their last finical report. Otherwise, you really have nothing against my opinion.

What is for certain though, if a company like CA would go through kickstarter, I would give them 60 dollars because I know all of that money would go to them, not 30% going to a Publisher who’s greedy, lazy, and all about profit and NOT quality. Also, it helps us as the gamers to interact with that company more and really see the whole process because we actually donated a certain amount of money to the actual game.

I’ve seen many games become successful on Steam because of kickstarter and Greenlight. Braid was a kickstarter game and has been nothing of high praise since then. What can you make of that? Luck? No, experience and took the CUSTOMERS voices rather than the PUBLISHERS concerns about profiteering.

I truly think Publishers fear Kickstarter because they can now work around without having a publisher, take longer on a project, and be more successful in the process. 30% extra revenue in your own pocket, who the hell doesn’t want that AND not be bossed around by their supervisors on how to make your own game? Sounds like a win, win to the developers.

Oh, and to place on your wounds:
http://eternity.obsidian.net/ -- They are doing kickstarter too. Also, hired people who made Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment – Some of the finest RPGs ever to exist. Oh, and no publishers. Why? Because they are making a M Rated game and even the senior programmer (Tim Cain) strongly suggests that publishers are not into M Rated games. HA! Eat that, SEGA employee! The video that is on top of the page if you think I’m BS’ing. Have a good night. I like these conversations.


Edit: Please provide some sources. You're not a college drop out, are you? You know what SOURCES are, right?

[Chaunsey]

引用自 Divinus Exterminatus：

100 million for GTA and sites like this http://www.cracked.com/article_16404_5-reasons-gta-iv-worst-great-game-ever-made.html are saying it isn't that great. I played GTA 4 and to be honest, some of it was utter ♥♥♥♥ at times. Most expensive game made and a lot of critics on it. What's your point? The more it costs the better a game is?

whether you liked it or not is not the point, the point is simply that quality games cost a lot of money to make, unless you only want to play indy games and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ low end console games, its worth paying for quality. you didnt like GTA 4, but a heck of a lot of people disagree with you and loved it.

actually my biggest problem with it is that they took forever to release on PC, so i only bought it once it was cheap on sale.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-23-can-camelot-unchained-kickstart-mmos - You honestly think they can't make a kickass MMO without holding hands with a publisher? You're talking about a guy who has made several MMO's and knows wtf he is doing, yet the PUBLISHERS (like EA as he mentioned) screwed him over. Funny, how you are STILL protecting publishers and their greed.

im not protecting anyone, nothing i or you say or do will have one iota of an effect on any publisher or developer.

i also never said anything to suiggest that i dont think publishers do lots of terrible things, EA of course being the worst one.

my only point is that they are a necessary evil.

if serious games could be made without them they would, but its not possible.

How about this http://www.gamespot.com/news/sega-to-close-stormrise-studio-6406442 - SEGA closing down a studio that MADE TW: Medieval 2 - What's the deal on that?

Remember, the CEOs of the company never have to worry about losing their jobs.

they didnt make medieval 2, they were only part of the team involved, and by the way, sega opened that studio in the first place it wouldnt have existed to begin with if not for them. most likely it was simply a matter of consolidating the TW development in one place for cost savings, thats a pretty normal thing, im sorry if you dont like how business the world over operates, but without profits EVERYONE loses their job.

you're also incorrect in saying CEO's and publisher employees never lose their jobs, CEO's have a really fast turn around rate in this industry, if they dont deliver, they're out of there pretty fast, they have more pressure on them than any other person in a given company, and they also have more effects when they mess up as a result, thats just the way the world works though.

and publishers themselves go out of business or are forced to make cuts all the time, THQ anyone?

http://www.destructoid.com/anonymous-whistle-blower-claims-gearbox-stole-from-sega-246558.phtml - SEGA still defends itself in laments terms saying lying to the customers is someone else fault, but they were the ones who showed it. Classic. How's the project working out now??? Classic!

once again, im not defending any publishers actions here, im only speaking about the TW series and creative assembly, they have been a great developer delivering quality with integrity for a long time.

the fact there is a lot of questionable crap that goes on in the industry is precisely a reason why we should support the folks that are doing right by us.

you're throwing them under the bus just because sega, EA and others do some stupid crap.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?547991-Sega-increased-the-budget-by-40-for-Rome-2 -- Point is what? Everyone is having a wonderful time with this 40% increase. One person even said, "I predict we'll be slammed with all kinds of lame DLC... :-( Hope I am wrong." -- What Total War game since empire hasn't released crap loads of DLC???? Just a prediction. But if that doesn't say, "please give us more money." Then I honestly don't know what does. DLC is a nice idea of adding new content, YES, but it really depends how one PRICES it. I've seen DLC from mere cents to 50 dollars (Train game anyone?).

see once again slamming CA rather than sega or other publishers, do you not trust that CA will put that money to good use?

everything ive seen about Rome 2 shows that the money has been well spent and they are delivering to us more content than any TW to date by far, and by the way, even the DLC they have made is FREE.

you're suspiciously questioning the price of DLC as though CA is responsible for every other company's poor DLC practice.

CA has price all their DLC very fairly.

heck look at fall of the samurai, that was almost an entire new game all on its own, ive actually spent much more time on that than the original shogun 2, money well spent, i have not chosen to buy any of the clan packs, but thats just me, if i did, they're all very fairly priced.

CA has not let me down in the past, so there is no reason for me to treat them with suspicion.


in fact if you look, because they have been successful, they have also been able to stand up to sega and do things their way, one of the devs even said the the guys at sega sometiems question whether they are trying to offer too much content for the price, because they do give us far better value for the money than any other game.

plus look at aliens and COH2 DLC practices, both sega games, and yet we arent seeing any of that from CA.

im happy to support CA.

5% profit margins based on earning 30% profit from selling a 60 dollar game?

http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/thefutureofgamepublishinganddevelopment.html#.UdU4js0o6Uk -- several other sites claiming the same thing. Read the whole article; it also mentions how kickstarter is the new 'in' on helping developers make games without PUBLISHERS putting their two cents into everything. HELL yea to Kickstarter.

Even if it took 500,000 to 1,000,000 copies to 'break' even by some of these publishers, no one REALLY knows unless you got their damn financial report. If you honestly are going to say percentages, numbers, and finances, then show US (the gamers) proof that SEGA is being a fair publisher. Show me their last finical report. Otherwise, you really have nothing against my opinion.

i havent seen sega specific numbers, but if you look at the financial reports of the publishers that are out there you can see the state of the industry.

comparable publishers like ubisoft and EA have only made 3%-8% profit margins on MASSIVE expenses, the big publishers take in over a billion dollars in revenue, and yet their profits on that are as low as 30 some million dollars.

the most profitable publisher has been activision, with over 30% profit margin, but almost all of that profit has been from WOW.

so unless you want a game market with nothing but WOW clones you should support good games when they come out.

What is for certain though, if a company like CA would go through kickstarter, I would give them 60 dollars because I know all of that money would go to them, not 30% going to a Publisher who’s greedy, lazy, and all about profit and NOT quality. Also, it helps us as the gamers to interact with that company more and really see the whole process because we actually donated a certain amount of money to the actual game.

I’ve seen many games become successful on Steam because of kickstarter and Greenlight. Braid was a kickstarter game and has been nothing of high praise since then. What can you make of that? Luck? No, experience and took the CUSTOMERS voices rather than the PUBLISHERS concerns about profiteering.

CA CANNOT go through kickstarter, you're once again ignoring the fact that kickstarter is only an option for relatively cheap projects.

most only bring in some thousands of dollars or at best a couple million.

the most successful crowd funded game, star citizen has only pulled in $11 million dollars, they're still having to shop for investors, possibly even a *gasp* publisher!

kickstarter is a great for games, i love a lot of indy games, but dont mistake it for a replacement for the current industry structure, i think kickastarter type crowdfunding is helping the industry get a better idea of what players actually want, it is putting more power in the hands of small developers, and it is allowing much more creativity, it is a great thing.

kickstarter could not even half fund a game like rome 2.

I truly think Publishers fear Kickstarter because they can now work around without having a publisher, take longer on a project, and be more successful in the process. 30% extra revenue in your own pocket, who the hell doesn’t want that AND not be bossed around by their supervisors on how to make your own game? Sounds like a win, win to the developers.

fear? not really, kickstarter is still a long way from even starting to compete with them.

kcikstarter has been great for games and small devs, but you're serisouly overstating what it can do for the industry.

there is nothing, and never will be anything than can replace someone being willing to hand someone $40 million dollars with no expectations of returns for 2 or 3 years and no guarantees of sales numbers.

the industry cannot work without companies willing to do that.

Oh, and to place on your wounds:
http://eternity.obsidian.net/ -- They are doing kickstarter too. Also, hired people who made Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment – Some of the finest RPGs ever to exist. Oh, and no publishers. Why? Because they are making a M Rated game and even the senior programmer (Tim Cain) strongly suggests that publishers are not into M Rated games. HA! Eat that, SEGA employee! The video that is on top of the page if you think I’m BS’ing. Have a good night. I like these conversations.

what wounds? i think you sorely over estimate the strength of your arguement, its fanciful, naive wishful thinking and ignoring the reality of the fact that games are a BUSINESS and people have to be able to make a good living on it or there are no games,

im telling you how the industry works, why it works the wya it does, and while its not perfect and there is lots of questionable practices its reality, and your ideas about what the industry should look like are just neive and unrealistic.

and ALL of this all comes right back around to the original point and basic fact that it is simply you angry about $10 because you think rome 2 should for some reason be cheaper than every other big budget game out there.

the folks making the games, even the publishers, their trying to make a living charging these prices, thats not greed, you would do the same thing, you however berating them over $10 when they are delivering you a game that can provide you an easy 1000 hours of entertainment...that is greed.

Edit: Please provide some sources. You're not a college drop out, are you? You know what SOURCES are, right?

i dont provide sources because everything im saying is off the top of my head, because im a gaming fan and i keep up withthe industry, and while i wont change your mind, and i dont care if i do or not, i know that anyone who like me is a serious gaming fan and is reading this can see that im right and doesnt need to troll for articles to know that.

this isnt some academic debate here, we're simply having a discussion on the internet, your original post was hardly some kind of dissertation with a list of sources, so why you suddenly expect this to be some serious debate i dont know.

[Chaunsey]

OH and i forgot to mention the M rated games bit, thats hilarious.

publishers dont like m rated games?

you mean like GTA, skyrim, tomb raider, assassins creed, far cry 3, crysis, mass effect, and just about every major game franchise on the market?

yeah, they're real scared of m rated games.


publishers are not into adult rated games, because no store will carry them if thats what you mean.