Point of the Socii units?

[Rocket Witch]

What, in gameplay terms, is the point of Rome's Socii units? Equites Extraordinarii aside, they are only minimally different to the equivilent citizen units and their recruitment and upkeep costs are similarly comparable. Are they there to provide traditional-style units (with their relatively superior melee stats) after one progresses onto Legionaries?

[DDCP]

Great question... I'm sure others can chime in on various stat / unit abilities, but for me units like the Socii (which in Latin means "Allied" I believe) and the Auxiliary units you can recruit in various provences (for ex., if you build an auxiliary barracks in Gaul, you can recruit Auxiliary Celtic warriors for Rome [not mercenary, a lot cheaper]), are for historical fun & cheap units to buff your legion until you can afford and / or prefer a more "standard" legion. They can also supplement your legion with units you may not have available in the region, like Sarmation cavalry, Syrian archers, Celtic cavalry, etc.

For me, I loved mixing local auxiliary units into my legions (maybe 3-4 per legion), as historically Rome used local non-citizens for cavalry, archers, etc.

Check out my Dacian auxiliaries here in Hispania... I love their archers, cavalry, & skirmishers... just adds flavor for me while I play. Gives my legions a unique history and bond as my legionaries fight side by side with non-citizen auxiliaries... love it all! Overall though, use them as a good alternative; they're heavily armored (even more than a lot of early units), and great close quarter fighters.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=182528510
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=189652999

[Asphyrr]

In reality Rome was a single city that could not possibly have produced the armies that it boasted on its own. Historically this was compensated by allies, or socii, who made up the bulk of Roman armies. Only citizens could be legionaries. This is similar to the Spartan faction that had limited Sparteites and were augmented by parioikoi, which also means allies in Greek. So, to be more historically accurate, the Roman faction in Rome 2 should have limited numbers of Legionaries and be supplamented by Socii...but noone would like having armies that were not made of legionaires. Socii were never as good as Roman legionaries and eventually all of Italy gained full citizenship in the time of the Empire and therefore they eventually could muster many more legionaires, but that was during the Empire, this game covers the Late Republican Period.

[DDCP]

Originally posted by Asphyrr:

In reality Rome was a single city that could not possibly have produced the armies that it boasted on its own. Historically this was compensated by allies, or socii, who made up the bulk of Roman armies. Only citizens could be legionaries. This is similar to the Spartan faction that had limited Sparteites and were augmented by parioikoi, which also means allies in Greek. So, to be more historically accurate, the Roman faction in Rome 2 should have limited numbers of Legionaries and be supplamented by Socii...but noone would like having armies that were not made of legionaires. Socii were never as good as Roman legionaries and eventually all of Italy gained full citizenship in the time of the Empire and therefore they eventually could muster many more legionaires, but that was during the Empire, this game covers the Late Republican Period.

Yup yup, exactly what I was saying / getting at...

I'm actually more of a "realist" player, as opposed to stacking 19 units of praetorians, etc. I love having about 10 legionaries (1 eagle, a few veterans, etc.), and mix the other half with light cavalry (auxiliary), skirmishers, and auxiliary infantry (or any local recruits worth while).

It's a really great time challenging myself doing this... hope all this helped!

[Buff Pug]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in Latin, socii means "partners", and refers to Rome's Italian city-state allies. For example, in the battle of Pydna, Paulus had 2 Roman legions, and 2 of Italian allies, the socii, and even had extraordinarii cavlary ("extraordinary"?) that he used to cut the Macedonian army of Perseus' line of supply. Once all of Italy was absorbed, and Gaius Marius reformed the legion into one of more professional soldiery rather than levies, it's likely that the socii wouldn't appear anymore, as they were now Roman citizens, and could fight as legionaries. Basically in-game, they make for some interesting and fun units in my opinion, especially in early game to have the mixed polybian legion with Italian allies, and look cool too.

[Centurion]

i personally thought they were units for reminding us of the pre-polybian roman army, back when they used phalanx and hoplites if you see what i mean.

[General Sherman]

The socii infantry are cheaper to recruit and maintain than citizen legionaries, assuming you are talking about pre-marian reforms. The socii cavalry and spearmen are more expensive than citizen roman units, but more powerful than the citizen equivalents.

So the socii are more of a min/max version of the basic roman army, less effective (but cheaper) base infantry, with more powerful specialist units (cav and spears). They also add some decent historical authenticity to the game.

[Gamerz1172]

socii hasati in example of what im saying: compared to hassati their missile attack is stronger

[Vensalir]

Originally posted by Noble_Crisis:

Correct me if I am wrong, but in Latin, socii means "partners", and refers to Rome's Italian city-state allies. For example, in the battle of Pydna, Paulus had 2 Roman legions, and 2 of Italian allies, the socii, and even had extraordinarii cavlary ("extraordinary"?) that he used to cut the Macedonian army of Perseus' line of supply. Once all of Italy was absorbed, and Gaius Marius reformed the legion into one of more professional soldiery rather than levies, it's likely that the socii wouldn't appear anymore, as they were now Roman citizens, and could fight as legionaries. Basically in-game, they make for some interesting and fun units in my opinion, especially in early game to have the mixed polybian legion with Italian allies, and look cool too.

"Socius" has several meanings, all associated with the concept of partnership. Its main meaning is that of "Military Ally" when talking about Roman politics however, even though it was more of a vassallage than an equal alliance.

Extraordinarii in Latin actually means something closer to "supernumerary". It come from the expression "Extra Ordinem" , which roughly translates as "Outside the formation" . It basically meant troops not specifically inserted into any of the regular formations inside a Legion, and has nothing to do with the quality or type of troop. Tipically, extraordinarii units were made of cavalry because the romans preferred their allies to provide cavalry, since Legionaries were almost exclusively infantrymen.

Also, Socii continued to exist much after the Marian reform and well into the imperial period, when citizenship was extended to everyone within the Empire.

[PandemicFallout]

well to answer this guy's question, without pulling out the history channel - just think of them as cannon fodder. that is all.

[Vensalir]

Originally posted by DeltaBlackWater:

well to answer this guy's question, without pulling out the history channel - just think of them as cannon fodder. that is all.

Not really, high-tier Socii units are quite capable. They also provide a number of specialties that the core Roman army doesn't have, such as slingers or light cavalry.

[[VN] Michael Doan]

oh what ??? did you even see the last socii swordman ??? they're less powerful then your other elites from cohort barracks but they're far far more than citizen units

[E]

A trained Socii unit (i.e. recruited in a province with appropriate buildings) with some experience some experience, can fight as good as a mid-late-game legionary (the Marian cohort). I might be mistaken, but they are also probably slightly cheaper than citizen units in the early game.

It is good if you want some disciplined units for your armies, without relying on poor barbarian auxiliaries. And they are versatile, they can serve as both the frontline units and reserves very well.

[Lucky Stralex]

They are more an historical thing, through i find the Socii Equiti Extraoridarii to be vitally useful in multiplayer battles

[Nero]

you get ranged units and capable melee infantry with the same building.