Does anyone else find horse archers totally pathetic?

[VonPassow]

This should be one of the most effective unit-types in the game. Why do they suck so bad? Skinny guys throwing rocks should not be able to DESTROY a group of mounted warriors with bows.

Just try it, 1 unit of Roxolani horse archers against 1 unit of slingers.

Who knew the armies of Attila and Genghis would just be foolish rock-fodder against the... Slingers?!

[Frosty]

slingers kill with that range. . . .idk thats the best i can think if your on a horse and you coming up to your own range to fire and then your friends next to you die and rocks are already flying past your head that could cause problems with alot of the archers including the horses .... but this is a game and i have no actual idea lol

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

They're a wee bit better after the Composite bow buff + Heavy shot. Before they were total garbage.
They still generally suck all around, my suggestion would be to try and get armoured Horse archers asap as Steppe Nomads. They get a nice armour stat plus their melee is on par with low tier/militia type units, so they can charge enemies in a pinch or are somewhat useful after using all their arrows. Still have pretty low melee defense stats so don't expect much of them.
Parthia's HA are still made of suck.

[Frosty]

To me horse archers are more of a harass unit then an actually attack unit. I just sit back and watch them rain hell and their mobility is useful for skirmishes.

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

My only problem is they're unable to fire on enemies you have selected and move at the same time. The only time they will fire and move is with Fire at Will toggled. And using 2 pierce damage bows vs shielded enemies doesn't really do much damage when half of the shots pretty much miss anyways. Not to mention they're already at 50% strength compared to foot archers considering all horse units in the game have less men.

They're a micromanagement hell and I honestly would suggest using no more than 3 in one army, as Frosty said to harass the enemy mostly. If you can devote 3 units into their flank and they have to turn 2 of their infantry units and 2-3 ranged units to chase them off.. Then technically you've succeeded in tieing up their units with less. Only problem is that typically unless you pause every 5 seconds you can't micromanage the horse archers forever and usually sometimes ♥♥♥♥♥ up, most of the time your horse archers get run down by enemy cav, or worse you spent too much time with the horse archers and your main line folds in on itself because you weren't around to help it.

[VonPassow]

Frosty a écrit :

To me horse archers are more of a harass unit then an actually attack unit. I just sit back and watch them rain hell and their mobility is useful for skirmishes.

Well pardon me, but no duh. When you're army is mainly composed of horse archers, that's pretty much the only way to attack. The point is, they are too weak in this game. A sad joke in some cases. These seem like the least effective horse archers of any TW game. I say this considering the balance compared to other units, as well as the horse archers capability to "do what they do" without getting caught in melee. Do you notice a difference in horse archer strength from game to game?

[VonPassow]

Seven Vagànias a écrit :

My only problem is they're unable to fire on enemies you have selected and move at the same time. The only time they will fire and move is with Fire at Will toggled. And using 2 pierce damage bows vs shielded enemies doesn't really do much damage when half of the shots pretty much miss anyways. Not to mention they're already at 50% strength compared to foot archers considering all horse units in the game have less men.

They're a micromanagement hell and I honestly would suggest using no more than 3 in one army, as Frosty said to harass the enemy mostly. If you can devote 3 units into their flank and they have to turn 2 of their infantry units and 2-3 ranged units to chase them off.. Then technically you've succeeded in tieing up their units with less. Only problem is that typically unless you pause every 5 seconds you can't micromanage the horse archers forever and usually sometimes ♥♥♥♥♥ up, most of the time your horse archers get run down by enemy cav, or worse you spent too much time with the horse archers and your main line folds in on itself because you weren't around to help it.

Your only problem seems to include many mini-problems. That defines Rome 2. Bottomline though, horse archers should ALWAYS be able to ride AND shoot. That is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ point of horse archers.

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

It would mostly be fixed if units with the ability to fire while moving, could be told where to attack but not have that order cancelled if told to move as well. Then you could also set them on auto-skirmish mode and they should be able to outrun most enemies except other cav and very light infantry that use some Quick march/Frenzied charge ability.

Then in all honesty they would work pretty well as intented. You have to remember while yes Roman legions did have trouble with horse archers, atleast Parthian ones they had a hard time with cataphract charges so it was hard to assume testudo position to protect themselves from arrows when any minute you would be charged by literally classical Tanks. Lol, Huns didn't show up for quite some time and Rome already ceased to exist once the ♥♥♥♥♥♥'s came to the playing field so bringing these up doesn't apply to this time period.

[brian.ab]

As a single force, horse archers are bad, they are effective in masses. But you made a mistake btw. Against ranged, use the horse archer as a close combat unit. Foot ranged units have very weak morale armor and defense, and engaging them in close combat breaks them in a short time, not to mention slingers cannot use their primary weapon in close combat. Also higher ground helps even out the range differences.

If you don't know already the barbarian units can stack ranged upgrades in a 4 town province. you can get +100% damage buff from buildings, and you can get ammo buff from cunning generals, tech and weapon upgrade.

So if you do SOME of these upgrades, those makes your armored line of horse archers uber armored high damaging killing machines with lots of ammo. At least in the main campaign.

Hope this helps.

[Frosty]

Seven Vagànias a écrit :

It would mostly be fixed if units with the ability to fire while moving, could be told where to attack but not have that order cancelled if told to move as well. Then you could also set them on auto-skirmish mode and they should be able to outrun most enemies except other cav and very light infantry that use some Quick march/Frenzied charge ability.

Then in all honesty they would work pretty well as intented. You have to remember while yes Roman legions did have trouble with horse archers, atleast Parthian ones they had a hard time with cataphract charges so it was hard to assume testudo position to protect themselves from arrows when any minute you would be charged by literally classical Tanks. Lol, Huns didn't show up for quite some time and Rome already ceased to exist once the ♥♥♥♥♥♥'s came to the playing field so bringing these up doesn't apply to this time period.

Very true^ Back in this time period for rome slingers and javs were the intended fire support that armies used. Archery didnt become popular until alot later in the AD Era. While as above said some factions used them but they were not commonly used. But yes you are correct in the fact if i order my unit to attack but move over here as long as they are in range, shooting should continue until told to stop. same with if your tryingto move a unit and 1 of the little guys gets caught up the whole unit heroes in to save him and fight off the evil horde. . . . f*** that follow orders and move to the postion i tell you lol

[Frosty]

brian.ab a écrit :

As a single force, horse archers are bad, they are effective in masses. But you made a mistake btw. Against ranged, use the horse archer as a close combat unit. Foot ranged units have very weak morale armor and defense, and engaging them in close combat breaks them in a short time, not to mention slingers cannot use their primary weapon in close combat. Also higher ground helps even out the range differences.

Again the barbarian units can stack ranged upgrades in a 4 town province. you can get +100% damage buff from buildings, and you can get ammo buff from cunning generals, tech and weapon upgrade.

So if you do SOME of these upgrades, makes your armored line of horse archers uber armored high damaging killing machines with lots of ammo. At least in the main campaign.

Hope this helps.

this is the reason i do like this game alot. i can single out a type of unit (horse/heavyinfantry) and buff the crap out of them. Stat wise thats fun as hell lol

[VonPassow]

Seven Vagànias a écrit :

It would mostly be fixed if units with the ability to fire while moving, could be told where to attack but not have that order cancelled if told to move as well. Then you could also set them on auto-skirmish mode and they should be able to outrun most enemies except other cav and very light infantry that use some Quick march/Frenzied charge ability.

Then in all honesty they would work pretty well as intented. You have to remember while yes Roman legions did have trouble with horse archers, atleast Parthian ones they had a hard time with cataphract charges so it was hard to assume testudo position to protect themselves from arrows when any minute you would be charged by literally classical Tanks. Lol, Huns didn't show up for quite some time and Rome already ceased to exist once the ♥♥♥♥♥♥'s came to the playing field so bringing these up doesn't apply to this time period.

The first part I totally agree with, but dude come on, the Huns and Mongols are examples of the bridled success of horse archers. The Turks, Scythians, Sarmatians, Cossacks and Moghuls are other examples. The comedy comes from the idea that they could be beaten by Rome 2's slingers. But thanks for the history lesson.

[Vigo the Carpathian]

The fact that they have to be real close to the enemy to shoot, but can be run down and caught by infantry makes them uselss fodder in my eyes.

[pieisgood2]

yea i don't use horse archers at all

[VonPassow]

brian.ab a écrit :

As a single force, horse archers are bad, they are effective in masses. But you made a mistake btw. Against ranged, use the horse archer as a close combat unit. Foot ranged units have very weak morale armor and defense, and engaging them in close combat breaks them in a short time, not to mention slingers cannot use their primary weapon in close combat. Also higher ground helps even out the range differences.

If you don't know already the barbarian units can stack ranged upgrades in a 4 town province. you can get +100% damage buff from buildings, and you can get ammo buff from cunning generals, tech and weapon upgrade.

So if you do SOME of these upgrades, those makes your armored line of horse archers uber armored high damaging killing machines with lots of ammo. At least in the main campaign.

Hope this helps.

Somewhat, I guess I'm really addressing the fundamentally ineffectual qualities of Rome 2's horse archers. As far as strategy IN-GAME, I wouldn't send 1 horse archer unit against 1 slinger unit, that was an example of how realistically, slingers should never win that encounter.

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

Again I'm not defending them in any way. I completely agree they are very weak and I too believe they definately need a buff. However to be used as the main killing ability for any army is a bit too far fetched. As I said it wasn't simply just the horse archers the Romans had trouble with vs Parthia. It was the combination of heavy cav charges who then retreated with the help of arrows raining down on Roman men giving chase. Lines break yadda yadda yadda you get the point.

As someone who regularly plays Parthia as my favourite faction it feels bad that I can't really use Horse archers like I would like to. It really is a shame, however if you do want to see real change I would suggest posting on the CA forums. I highly doubt anyone who has any creative input into any balancing frequents the Steam Forums. Lol