Historical Talk armour = Roman Lorica Segmentata

[Swimming Samurai]

Now im sure you all historical guys know that the Lorica Segmentata armour left its service around 200 or 300 A.D.

Any Theorys on why the Segementata disappear from the world?

Things to think about:

It might have costed allot of money but soldiers where still able to have it at one point.

Not all soldiers used this(Mail armour was more common).

Years set is around 9 A.D to early 300(?) A.D

Julius Caesars legions may have not used this armour.


Share your thoughts and please dont go off topic

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

Just cost mostly I believe. Maintence on it must be difficult as well, unlike later medieval plate were rich people could afford someone to maintain their armour, regular soldiery probably couldn't or wouldn't.

Unsurprisingly how much things cost dictates their use a lot throughout history. Spears/pikes weren't the most used weapon for any other reason than how cheaply they were made.

[Swimming Samurai]

still strange how they used it for a few 100 years. Maybe it got really tireing to have when their was no war?

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

It was expensive to make a ♥♥♥♥♥ to maintain simple and I'd say that armorbeas reserved for the legionaires which only made up at their largest 2/5ths of the roman army and the common chainmail would be used by the auxilla if you think about it the legionaires were taught theybwere the best and than you give him the same armor as the conscript that joined yesterday it will mess a man's mind but thats my take on it

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

Well I'm not a history major or anything but if I'm not mistaken not all places would have the knowledge of making/mending said armour, especially in the far flung reaches of the empire.

Sure there was probably smiths and menders that travelled with large armies of troops, but Mail is estimated to have always been in more use than Segmentata. My opinion is that as more and more troops used mail, techniques needed to make/maintain it also too faded. If 9/10 soldiers use mail why would I bother learning how to fix other armour types is probably a good thought to fly through a smiths head. Haha

They probably did like using it. I mean I personally like the looks of it compared to mail, I'm sure most other people can agree, Romans included. And ancient times it might just have had a demoralizing affect against less armed enemies. Like Cataphract armour usually had against nations except Rome. It's not that it wasn't useful or anything either. It was very good and sturdy. Again it all just comes down to cost.

[Fear2288]

I recall reading some very interesting theories regarding the lorica segmentata in general.

I believe the more historically-minded out there back the idea that the segmentata wasn't nearly as common or widespread as the "pop culture" Romans make it seem. That's why I like that R2 doesn't have EVERY legionary wearing it however there are some ideas floating about as to who wore it, why, where, and when.

One theory is that the armor was worn by officers. Another theory is that the segmentata was actually a ceremonial armor worn during triumphs or any other event where the Legion and its commander wanted to show off (much like how modern militaries have multiple uniforms for different purposes).

Most of the evidence we have to go off of are depictions of the armor and while some show Legions decked out in the stuff others (from the same period) don't show it at all and instead show the more common lorica hamata and the lorica squamata (scaled).

Also, as to why it stopped being used, if it was used as a battle armor it was apparently expensive to make and hard to maintain/repair. And if you recall that the armor supposedly went out of fashion in the 3rd century that lines up with the Imperial Crisis when the Empire slid into years of plague, civil war, economic depression, and foreign invasion/raiding.

[Swimming Samurai]

I guess the events of all the things going on in 300 A.D made it really hard to get Segmentata armour

[Rabidnid]

The armour was really developed to deal with Gauls swinging their big swords. When the Gauls were replaced by other enemies, or archers became a bigger threat, then mail made its re-appearance as it provided more coverage. I don't think cost or complexity came into it. Riviting 25,000 mail links (the average number in mail) isn't exactly simple either.

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

Originally posted by Rabidnid:

The armour was really developed to deal with Gauls swinging their big swords. When the Gauls were replaced by other enemies, or archers became a bigger threat, then mail made its re-appearance as it provided more coverage. I don't think cost or complexity came into it. Riviting 25,000 mail links (the average number in mail) isn't exactly simple either.

It is actually a fairly simple task just time consuming and tedious as hell the case hardening used in segmanta is actually is harder to do

[General Sherman]

One of he problems with segmentata was that it left the lower abdomen and upper thighs exposed. Alot of people dont realize that segmentata covered less of a person's body than the standard mail shirt of the roamns. They see plate armor and automatically assume it offered better protection.

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

Originally posted by IG General Sherman:

One of he problems with segmentata was that it left the lower abdomen and upper thighs exposed. Alot of people dont realize that segmentata covered less of a person's body than the standard mail shirt of the roamns. They see plate armor and automatically assume it offered better protection.

But thats what the shield nearly as tall as they are was for

[NotActuallyACat]

Price was indeed a factor, most likely

As time progressed the roman empire became more barbarized. Less and less people knew how to read, knowledge was slowly lost, the empire encountered financial troubles... On top of that warfare was changing. The focus was less on infantry (As it had been in the classical era) and moved more to cavalry and light infantry. This was exacerbated for rome, who needed soldiers who could quickly travel to intercept raiding parties and the like. I had found a great site with info on this but it seems I haven't bookmarked it. It detailed the variou kinds of roman equipment from the early beginnings all the way to the fall of the east roman empire. Very interesting read

['Tubby-Nuts'.]

What I find intriguing about all of the Roman armours, is that the, L / Musculata, has never been found in any 'Dig', yet it is always portrayed as a 'Generals Armour', in some fashion or other.

[Captain Michael Vulpi]

Originally posted by 'Tubby-Nuts'.:

What I find intriguing about all of the Roman armours, is that the, L / Musculata, has never been found in any 'Dig', yet it is always portrayed as a 'Generals Armour', in some fashion or other.

Aye but it was a type of armor around at the time we know this thanks to examples of bronze muscular curiasses found in greece and as a general if the greeks had it than so did the romans

[Varmint]

In terms of moving parts alone - it's by far the most intricate piece of equipment on the field.
Murphy's Law laid Roma low!
Segmentata just had to go!

[Ammianus Marcellinus]

Originally posted by (TSOS) Sir Nodosa:

Now im sure you all historical guys know that the Lorica Segmentata armour left its service around 200 or 300 A.D.

Any Theorys on why the Segementata disappear from the world?

Things to think about:

It might have costed allot of money but soldiers where still able to have it at one point.

Not all soldiers used this(Mail armour was more common).

Years set is around 9 A.D to early 300(?) A.D

Julius Caesars legions may have not used this armour.


Share your thoughts and please dont go off topic

Answer, increase in the size of the army and the budget that was needed for paying the army. Fabricae (state factories running the production weapons and armour). The most reliable and cheapest option was chainmail with padding or other forms of fabric underneath.

However, lorica segmentata did not disapear completely. It was used by some charioteers in the hippodrome in the 4th and 5th centuries, as testified by a number of images and mosaics found across the Roman Empire.

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1061/1095437396_e303377b96_o.jpg