Sparta grand campaign?

[Ragnarok]

Alright, so im trying to figure out what to do. Every 'guide' says to take Athens immediatly. Well ive tried it two different ways now.

Attack first turn. Well, that failed. I couldn't take the city and Epirus, Macedon and Athens were all at war with me. I couldn't ever take the city. It had an army, a garrison and a navy with it. Unable to take it.

I then waited on the second try for Athens to fight Epirus. Well, they built an army and sent it there... but htey kept their biggest/best army in the city to defend Athens. I couldn't take it with my large army.

What was I supposed to do? Their navy never left, their army never left, and they had HUGE advantages from the start... or was that supposed to be the part where my skill was to come down and take the city without auto resolve?

I dont wanna do autoresolve, but it just felt like there was no way, even if I went down into the match, that I would ever take Athens. Just felt like I was hampered.

[rincewind]

In my campaign I attacked Epirus first and left Athens in peace for a long time.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by rincewind:

In my campaign I attacked Epirus first and left Athens in peace for a long time.

I heard you had to take Athens to open up trade. Without it, no trade?

[rincewind]

Originally posted by Barneys Had Enough Of You.:

Originally posted by rincewind:

In my campaign I attacked Epirus first and left Athens in peace for a long time.

I heard you had to take Athens to open up trade. Without it, no trade?

I don't remember that being an issue.
But maybe was changed, I played my Sparta campaign several patches ago.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by rincewind:

Originally posted by Barneys Had Enough Of You.:

I heard you had to take Athens to open up trade. Without it, no trade?

I don't remember that being an issue.
But maybe was changed, I played my Sparta campaign several patches ago.

Ill give it another try then. I'll build my army and take Emprius. Im also assuming a good mix of Pikemen and hoplites are key?

Pikemen to hold the line while Hoplites flank/defend flanks?

Really wanna take over the entire place with Sparta, as I was oh so close with Rome, only for a civil war to completely neuter my roman campaign. LOL.

[Welsh Dragon]

Sparta is a tricky one.

As Sparta you do need to take Athens to be able to trade with anyone but Athens (because the game won't set up trade routes across a body of water without a port, including the navigable rivers such as the one between Sparta and Larissa to the north. So to trade the game has to be able to draw a route between your capital and your trade partner, which it can't for Sparta as they have no port and there's no land route to a port from Sparta unless you take Athens.)

But that doesn't mean you have to take out Athens immediately. While trade is generally a good source of income early game, it's not always essential. It's possible to play Sparta without trade, by allying with Athens and working together to expand both your lands. Also take plenty of slaves, as the Helot Repression trait heavily reduces the unhappiness caused by slaves, meaning you can have more with less problems.

Nothing says you can't stab Athens in the back later!

Other things that may help.

Use diplomacy and see if you can get Macedon to cancel their Client State treaty with Athens (or visa versa.) May cost a bit, and no guarantee they will agree, but if they do Athens will have to stand alone.

Offer to join Epirus war with Athens, thus not triggering Athens treaty with Macedon (bit of an exploit, but if you're really stuck and it's stopping you playing a campaign you want to enjoy there's no shame in that.)

Use agents to try and degrade Athens defenses. How you do that varies depending on whether you're playing pre-Ancestral Update (Patch 20) or Ancestral Update, but agents can be a vaulable tool in tilting things in your favour. For example, a Spy stealing their food can lead to attrition if it falls too low that they can't feed everyone.

Try to take them apart piece by piece. A loan general army on the Campaign map can be great bait to draw an enemy into an Ambush by placing your main army (in Ambush Stance) between the enemy and your loan general army.

Remember that as Sparta your strength is in the quality and experience of your Spartan Troops, but it isn't your only one. Your core should be pikes and hoplites, but don't forget about the Helots. They may not be great, but they're cheap, allowing you to flesh out your armies for less. And pelting the enemy with slingshot and javelins from the flanks once they're engaged with you pikes and hoplites is a great way to kill the enemy quickly. In a Greek vs Greek fight, it's often how you use those support units such as skirmishers and cavalry that decides whether you win or lose.

Finally, don't forget about Mercenaries and Levies. Mercs can get you extra disposable units quickly (I say disposable because if I'm not planning to use them long term because of their higher upkeep, I tend to have them be at the heart of the fight and taking the most casualties.) And as you're a Hellenic faction you can establish Client States, and then levy units from those clients by having your army in that region and then use the Levy button (it's where the recruitment button usually is in your lands.) Levies draw from the native population, not your faction, so you can get different units that you can't otherwise recruit. It's one way to expand on Sparta's limited roster.

Hope that helps.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[rincewind]

Originally posted by Barneys Had Enough Of You.:

Originally posted by rincewind:

I don't remember that being an issue.
But maybe was changed, I played my Sparta campaign several patches ago.

Ill give it another try then. I'll build my army and take Emprius. Im also assuming a good mix of Pikemen and hoplites are key?

Pikemen to hold the line while Hoplites flank/defend flanks?

Really wanna take over the entire place with Sparta, as I was oh so close with Rome, only for a civil war to completely neuter my roman campaign. LOL.

I didn't used pikes, because in my head true spartans have no need of those Macedonian tactics!
My armies at the start were hoplites backed with slingers and later cavalry.

Now I want to start a new campaign with Sparta.

But I need to finish both my Syracuse campaign (I'm on the spot were victory is inevitable, but must go and invade my stubborn allies that wan't firm a military alliance no matter what).
And my VC campaign in Warhammer (I need to play a gigantic battle against the dwarf, possibly the definitive one in the war... but when I fought it crashed the game when I almost had won... sigh).

[Ten typ]

There is an option to skip trade block. When you will take Epirus you can consciously provoke the rebe in Sparta, when the rebel will take city, your capital will be removed, or you can use mod that giving you the option to change capitals.

[Fang]

You do need to take Athens to trade (especially with Egypt, they supply the ever highly prized Iron resource, just sail an agent across the water to "discover" them), but you don't have to do it immediately. Rather, wait for the city to be lighter defended or until you have enough troops to just zerg swarm it. Take some Epirus lands for some extra income first. Athens does function as a nice protection of Sparta early on.

[bbolto]

What I did was:

- take Hieroptyna immediately (they're in your province and have no friends)
- wait a bit
- let a neighbor beat Athens – you can help Epirus with an agent if you like, but this involves luck. For me, I think Athens declared independence/war on Macedon and then I took Athens from Macedon

A very unspartan option is to decamp entirely, take some other settlement and abandon Sparta to whoever.

[Ragnarok]

I will try taking Epirus, the small island to Sparta's south, and then maybe a few more places to get a secure income, then take Athens and macedon. I plan on taking over the world with Sparta after all. Rome will fall.

I spent last night creating 'formations' in my head. I had an arrow head formation in my mind. 2-3 Pikes form a front, two pikes at an angle, and then from the angle, I have a hoplight unit on either side. Like this!!!!



_/---\_


General in the middle below the pikes and skirmishers to bring the enemy to my arrow formation.

Of course, i'll bring in some seige machines but this is the general formation. I can easily increase the size and what not.

[Ragnarok]

Eh. I hink im done with sparta. This is WAY to difficult for me. I ended up losing EVERYTHING. Macedonia had way too big of an army and as soon as I defeated Epirus, I went for Athens. Whelp, Macedonia had several armies at the time and when I went to take the island to my south, a THIRD faction declared war and took my cities along with mace... so yea. Im done. Its just not fun. Im bank rupt, no cities, nothing. Lost everything. Absolutely horrible to start as Sparta. One tiny mistake and its over. Not to mention, public order. Oh gawd.

I took over Epirus, and as soon as the civil war thing was over, rebellions across my country. Absolutely atrocious. I couldn't even be a warmonger without losing. :/

Oh did I mention THE PLAGUES OUT THE ASS.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Ver Sacrum:

Originally posted by Barneys Had Enough Of You.:

Eh. I hink im done with sparta. This is WAY to difficult for me. I ended up losing EVERYTHING. Macedonia had way too big of an army and as soon as I defeated Epirus, I went for Athens. Whelp, Macedonia had several armies at the time and when I went to take the island to my south, a THIRD faction declared war and took my cities along with mace... so yea. Im done. Its just not fun. Im bank rupt, no cities, nothing. Lost everything. Absolutely horrible to start as Sparta. One tiny mistake and its over. Not to mention, public order. Oh gawd.

I took over Epirus, and as soon as the civil war thing was over, rebellions across my country. Absolutely atrocious. I couldn't even be a warmonger without losing. :/

Oh did I mention THE PLAGUES OUT THE ASS.

Felt the same way as playing the Ardiaei (Awful roster, but very fun), then I switch to Odrysian Kingdom and took all of Greece. Facing Greeks is rough with pikes/hoplites. Focus your javelins on the pikes, and snipe their missile units with slingers.

Calvary will try to swarm you from the rear. Place some Perioikoi spearmen in the flanks and rear to compensate (Good square formation + they throw javelins). The unit you need to look out for with Athen is Thorax swordsmen, they tear up spear infantry. Have some spare javelinmen, and swoop behind them.

I will worry about Greece when I conquer the rest of the world as Rome... then ill just steam roll with superior numbers and economy.

Though one thing I hate when playing rome... SCREW CARTHAGE.

[rincewind]

Cato the Elder would be proud of you!

[Fang]

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!

Something we can all agree on.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by rincewind:

Cato the Elder would be proud of you! :2018salienpsychic:

I dunno who that is.

Originally posted by Fang:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam!

Something we can all agree on.

Carthage is just annoying. They wont die... they keep coming back in my rome game somehow >.>

That being said, im going to give Sparta another chance. I just love Spartans... I mean I guess I wouldn't if it wasn't for 300... but I wouldn't love rome or anything else without them having their own moviues or games xD