Phalanxes are broken in DeI

[Akboris]

Phalanxes are broken, I would have a single unit of phalanx cucks absolutely surrounded from all sides and it would take forever to take them out. Meanwhile my guys take a hit from anything anywhere and they rout immediately.

[BRAN MAC BORN]

Well you can always play Wars of the Gods mod-you can break pikes in that mod.

[Draco100000]

Man you have no excuses, you got multiple hoplite phalanx units, instead of sending the romans like dumb barbarians, just send 1 hoplite phalanx to hold the front and push with other hoplite phalanx from behind, shattering the formation because of your superior mass and you basically either rout them instantly or kill them all in seconds. Also you didnt do the Marian reforms, so without Triarii nor extraotdinarii hoplites its gona take longer to defeat elite formations. The Roman Empire wasnt formed in a day lolz. Get a profesional army like the greeks and show them the power of the pilum and Gladious.

EDIT: Duuuude you got 3 archer units and 1 javelinman with 3/4 muni, some mercenaries and axemen with full muni. Man you could have just shoot them to death. That unit you are trying to kill looks like Strategos/king's guard so obviously they will fight a lot lulz.


EDIT2: To pish with a phalanx do double click

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Draco100000:

Also you didnt do the Marian reforms, so without Triarii nor extraotdinarii hoplites its gona take longer to defeat elite formations. The Roman Empire wasnt formed in a day lolz. Get a profesional army like the greeks and show them the power of the pilum and Gladious.

I don't really think that the Marian Reforms are all that neccessary. There are enough of ways to get masses of sword infantry even before that by using AoR, mercs and auxilla. Polybian reforms already give your Hastati and Principes swords and marian Legionaries are only slightly better than polybian Princeps. Though ahistorical, it is possible to have a full line of "legionaries" way before the Marian Reforms by using only Princeps and disregarding Hastatii.

[La Comte de Frou Frou]

Had the same thing. Decided to give DEI a go as Sparta. First battle, cavalry runs through my phalanx and into the archers behind.

No resistance and no cavalry losses. Then the Phalanx routed having lost no more than 20 men. Pointless and uninstalled.

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by La Comte de Frou Frou:

Had the same thing. Decided to give DEI a go as Sparta. First battle, cavalry runs through my phalanx and into the archers behind.

No resistance and no cavalry losses. Then the Phalanx routed having lost no more than 20 men. Pointless and uninstalled.

Sorry, what you described there only doesn't make sense if you don't know history.

Historicall only the pike phalanx cound stop a frontal charge of heavy cavalry. That is why Alexander employed pike tatctics against the Persian Empire and why the Romans got defeated numerous times by smaller armies of Parthia.

In DEI, spears can manage, but they need to stand perfectly still while receiving the charge, otherwise they'll just get trampled. And the hoplite phanalx also mustn't be stretched too far because, for obvious reasons, only 3 or 4 rows of men can't possible stop about 500-1000 kg charging with 60km/h at them. Yes, that is actually how much a fully equipped rider on a horse weights. It is actually 4 times as much as a motorcycle. Now imagine beeing hit by a motorcycle going about 120 km/h. This would be a comparable impact when compared to a cavalry charge.

Learn to appreciate realizm please.

Edit: Did you really activate the phalanx formation? Because if not, most hoplites in DEI fight with swords. Same happens, once the formation is broken.

[Draco100000]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by Draco100000:

Also you didnt do the Marian reforms, so without Triarii nor extraotdinarii hoplites its gona take longer to defeat elite formations. The Roman Empire wasnt formed in a day lolz. Get a profesional army like the greeks and show them the power of the pilum and Gladious.

I don't really think that the Marian Reforms are all that neccessary. There are enough of ways to get masses of sword infantry even before that by using AoR, mercs and auxilla. Polybian reforms already give your Hastati and Principes swords and marian Legionaries are only slightly better than polybian Princeps. Though ahistorical, it is possible to have a full line of "legionaries" way before the Marian Reforms by using only Princeps and disregarding Hastatii.

Oh god blame my hurry in the response I meant Polybian.

[Draco100000]

Originally posted by La Comte de Frou Frou:

Had the same thing. Decided to give DEI a go as Sparta. First battle, cavalry runs through my phalanx and into the archers behind.

No resistance and no cavalry losses. Then the Phalanx routed having lost no more than 20 men. Pointless and uninstalled.

Just dont move the hoplites until the hole cavalry formation is standing still, then demolish the horses by pusing with the hoplites untill the horses rout or retreat to charge again, repeat until the cavalry battallion shatters. Cataphracts may need intervention of light cavalry, javelins or pike phalanx to support the hoplites, thureos reform should sort out ant problems vs cav as huge numbers and javelin throwing basically demolishes any kind of cav, despite the lower unit mass of te thureos spears or swords they hold the line pretty well.

[Akboris]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

In this case, it still applies, that you need to do some damage actually so units rout. You see, from the perspective of your normal soldier, it is impossible to see actually how many units have you surrounded. The soldier only sees that he is surrounded, but not by how many actually. That means, that it doesnt matter if you surround the unit with 2 or 20 units. Added to that is the fact, that history claims that some elite phalanxes actually held their ground even when surrounded until total annihilation, like for example the sacred band of Carthage. So if elite phalanxes don't falter even when fighting exhausted and under unfavorable conditions, it can actually be regarded as historically authentic.

What routs units very well in DEI is "shock damage", meaning damage applied in a very short amount of time. The most common way to achieve that is a charge in the back with shock cavalry and elephants, or shoot them in the back, preferably by high damage weapons like javelins. If you add a barrage of flaming arrows on top of that, even elites should run away pretty quickly.

They were standard greek hoplites

[Akboris]

Draco your trying so hard to wipe away obvious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in DeI

[Akboris]

Also I only had two hoplite units, those light tarantines cant do phlanax

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Akbaro:

They were standard greek hoplites

Yeah, look at their armor and stats. They are semi elite in this regard. Considering that it was a general unit which further boosts morale, they'll obviously fight nearly to the last man.

Originally posted by Akbaro:

Also I only had two hoplite units, those light tarantines cant do phlanax

2 are not enought to take 1 unit in a pincer?

Originally posted by Akbaro:

Draco your trying so hard to wipe away obvious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in DeI

No, he tries to teach you how to play, because you obviously can't make a proper step from the arcade mode in vanialla to the realistic mode in DEI. I mean really, what the hell is your screenshot? You expect people to think that you know how to play the game and understand the underlying mechanics properly if you post something like that?

[Akboris]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by Akbaro:

They were standard greek hoplites

Yeah, look at their armor and stats. They are semi elite in this regard. Considering that it was a general unit which further boosts morale, they'll obviously fight nearly to the last man.

Originally posted by Akbaro:

Also I only had two hoplite units, those light tarantines cant do phlanax

2 are not enought to take 1 unit in a pincer?

Originally posted by Akbaro:

Draco your trying so hard to wipe away obvious ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in DeI

No, he tries to teach you how to play, because you obviously can't make a proper step from the arcade mode in vanialla to the realistic mode in DEI. I mean really, what the hell is your screenshot? You expect people to think that you know how to play the game and understand the underlying mechanics properly if you post something like that?

I surrounded a hoplite unit from all sides. The missile units were fighting their missile units. Once the hoplites were surrounded I didnt exactly want to pull all my units out to shoot them.

They were not elite. If they were then half the units in this game are, half of my units were "elite" whatever that even means in DeI

Bearing in mind that was an early game. I genuinely did nothing wrong, and you are trying to defend broken game mechanics like this invincible phalanx formation.

[Akboris]

Its easy sitting in your chair and planning out how the battle could have gone. This was early on you absolute cucks. This was just when I found out how ridiculously broken they are. You think your a gang of academics but your just a bunch of brainlets.

[ChaosKhan]

Yeah, so broken thar I regularily take them out without any issues and even don't use hoplites myself, if I have a choice, because they are actually underpowered. Hoplites are the worst kind of line infantry in DEI right now, hands down. And now you are here, post this screen and claim that they are atcually broken.
Yeah, right...

But hey, who am I to explain you stuff about DEI? I've only played it for about 300 hours, so you know your stuff certainly better than me.

[Draco100000]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Yeah, so broken thar I regularily take them out without any issues and even don't use hoplites myself, if I have a choice, because they are actually underpowered. Hoplites are the worst kind of line infantry in DEI right now, hands down. And now you are here, post this screen and claim that they are atcually broken.
Yeah, right...

This is exactly what I was thinking, when I did the thureos reform in my Macedon campaing I was surprised how superior they were in comparison to hoplites. 300 man per battallion and huge morale pretty much makes them 2 times better, even overpowered imo. Then you check the stats of hoplites and they have crappy attack and not that good defense, they drop like flies vs Hastati and princeps, I had to stop using them because Rome was slaughtering them, even with Pike phalanx support.

And Im not trying to hide or wipe away anything lolz, DeI is slow, so bloody slow you got official submods to make it even 4x times quicker. And sorry if it sounded wrong or mocking, but half you army is made of town guard that barely can hold a scutum straight, most of your units in that battle were trash, and your only problem was that the hoplites were holding, they are not even winning I dont see anything there but a few greeks that are getting ganbanged and will die soon or later. Any unit with formations will take a while to rout, specially if their base morale is superior to 60, if you are playing in something over normal dificulty(in battles, you can modify this specifically from the menu and keep high campaing difficulty) then the ai units receive so many morale buffs that its so hard to rout them, sometimes imposible.

In no moment I have implied that i think that DeI isnt unbalanced or that the phalanx was or wasnt op( until this last comment). I just gave you some ways to tear it apart so you could replicate something I told you in the future of your campaing, no ill intentions, just trying to help. The " you have no excuse" was basically because you had hoplites as well which made me wonder what was wrong with the battle. Now I think that I understand that you think the battallion should basically rout instantly, just give it 5 or 6 minutes with the x3 speed and that battallion will die e ( you could speed it out with any of the things I told you, but thats a perfectly okay way to win that, massive sorrounding without formations takes a little bit more time but its a win situation nevertheless. Only trying to be helpfull here, sry if i offended someone.