Its impossible for me to win the Battle of Alesia.

[Argronok0]

No matter what I do, I just get overwhelmed by too many enemeis.

The hardest part is diverting units to handle the enemies coming from the flanks while all my units are dealing with the walls.

Why are these Historic Battles so unfair to the player?

[loveless]

Historically, they were also unfair to the victors.

[ＳＨＡＤＯＷ２ＫＫ]

Julius Caesar is thinking, `Veni Vidi Vici`.

[DeLastOne]

If you play roman then historicaly Ceasar digged a lot of trenches all around Alesia to slow down relief forces approach... But again Igot your point :)

Little bit of history : https://www.warhistoryonline.com/guest-bloggers/battle-alesia-roman-siege-completed-julius-caesars-conquest-gaul.html

[bearfieldlee]

I have never managed to win the battle of Alesia either. Maybe 15 attempts or so...

[Falesz]

I won it once, maybe on my second try, when it was considerably easier.
I remember after the release of every patch on the forums said it's impossible, then it's possible, then impossible again, then it became quite easy, then impossible again. You just have to catch a favourable patch to fight this battle.

[Migz - DH]

It's a good challenge all right. Only 0.7 percent of owners have been awarded with a victory achievement at Normal difficulty or higher.

[MANWHATADONGA]

Not every one is as good as me.I am called MANWHATADONGA GAUL KILLER.

[Dayve]

Now you know why Caesar was held in such high regard all through history, and why every single emperor until the end of the empire took "Caesar" as their name. The man was an anomaly. He's the Roman version of Alexander the Great, except much more successful.

Alexander won battles heroically when he was outnumbered every time and won battles nobody thought he could win. Then he died young and his legacy was a bunch of successors fighting each other until they were so weak the Romans/Parthians were able to just take their empires.

Caesar won battles nobody should ever have been able to win, forgave all the enemies who fought against him AND gave them back their jobs in government, and the only way they could kill him was when he was alone, in the senate, surrounded by what he thought were his friends.

[Salty Nobody]

The historical battles were created when the game was released and never updated to match the subsequent patches that changed unit balance. This makes some of them much harder than they should be.

Carthage, Pydna, Teutoburg and Raphia are all still done easily enough on Legendary.

Alesia is arguably the most broken. Some YouTuber apparently managed it on Legendary, best I could do at the time was Hard.

Cannae gives the player no killing power, I couldn't manage that on high difficulties either.

I was so stuck on my dozen attempts of Legendary Alesia and multiple attempts at hopeless Cannae that I never got around to Zama or The Nile so I can't speak for them.

I think it's time I went back and gave the Historical battles another go and see what I can do with them now...

[Argronok0]

Originally posted by Tactician:

The historical battles were created when the game was released and never updated to match the subsequent patches that changed unit balance. This makes some of them much harder than they should be.

Carthage, Pydna, Teutoburg and Raphia are all still done easily enough on Legendary.

Alesia is arguably the most broken. Some YouTuber apparently managed it on Legendary, best I could do at the time was Hard.

Cannae gives the player no killing power, I couldn't manage that on high difficulties either.

I was so stuck on my dozen attempts of Legendary Alesia and multiple attempts at hopeless Cannae that I never got around to Zama or The Nile so I can't speak for them.

I think it's time I went back and gave the Historical battles another go and see what I can do with them now...

They also haven't added more historical battles with subsequent expansions.

I would have loved a Battle of Thermopolye Historical Battle.

[bearfieldlee]

Yeah, I was hoping for a relevant new historical battle with each dlc release but it doesn't seem to be on the cards.

[Myrmidon]

A lot of the things that played a pivotal role in ancient battles cannot be effectively replicated in total war as a limitation of the mechanics. The Battle of Cannae is a prime example of this in which a pivotal aspect of the battle is wholly impossible to replicate in real time:

1.) Infantry formations advance on each other.

2.) Hannibal retains elite infantry on the wings of his infantry formations. Blended/hidden behind regulars.

3.) Cavalry mirror each other on the far left and right wings.

So far so good. This can all be replicated in Total War.

4.) Hannibals cavalry as ordered, pursue aggressively at all costs in order to chase Roman cavalry from the field.

5.) Battlelines merge.

Still going good. All replicatable with Total War mechanics. But then suddenly...

6.) Hannibals battleline begins a measured recession in the centre, becoming exponentially less reccessive the further down the flanks. Eventually forming an inverted bell curve.

7.) Roman forces continue advancing into the curve.

This here is the key aspect of the battle that is wholly impossible to replicate with Total War mechanics. You cannot have infantry formations walk backwards. You can't have them bulge or receed in the centre. You cannot have them withdraw/give ground to an opposing force whilst facing it frontally. Quite simply having multiple infantry units in a battleline you cannot create an inverse bulge as a simple limitation of the battlefield mechanics.

8.) As Roman forces press further and further into the inversely bulged battle line the elite forces hidden on the wings detach and lock onto the sides creating envelopement from 3 sides or "double envelopement".

This addition is easily feasible within the game mechanics.

9.) Hannibals cavalry return to engage the rear completing a 4-sided or 'total envelopement' of the Roman foces.

Again easily replicatable.

It may seem like you can replicate the battle easily in the ingame engine but it literally ceases feasibility at the receeding battleline because it simply cannot be done with the limited battlefield mechanics. It has been done "cinematically" by taking dozens of individual takes of zoomed in sections of a battle line in different positions in custom battle whilst statically paused but it is for all intents and purposes clay modelling frame by frame. It doesn't work as a contigious take because it's not actually depicting the same thing but rather the illusion of something else.

[Salty Nobody]

In the current patch every historical battle except Alesia is beatable on Legendary. Alesia is doable on Normal, Hard at the most. Luckily the achivements are tied to Normal difficulty so people can still get all of them.

I do agree most of the historical battles need a balance pass. The average player will struggle on Normal on many of them and I don't like the bs AI exploiting I had to pull to win on the higher difficulty.

[Mouse]

I had a lot of difficulty with it too. I suggest watching LegendOfTotalWar playing it, i used a lot of his ideas. Such as sacrificing a unit to hold the gate at the fort, whilst artillery fire at them. It still took a few attempts, and i was playing on Hard only, and he was doing it on legendary. Make use of your cav outside the walls too. Artillery and archers have unlimited ammo too i believe.

I've still never completed the Siege of Carthage, i hate siege battles and find that one especially hard.

[Salty Nobody]

Originally posted by Séamus:

I had a lot of difficulty with it too. I suggest watching LegendOfTotalWar playing it, i used a lot of his ideas. Such as sacrificing a unit to hold the gate at the fort, whilst artillery fire at them. It still took a few attempts, and i was playing on Hard only, and he was doing it on legendary. Make use of your cav outside the walls too. Artillery and archers have unlimited ammo too i believe.

The problem with his method is the new patch. Units can't be spread out to block wide areas like he did anymore. Also, when you send the cav out the AI will immediately divert units to engage them and even hold some melee units back from fighting the legions to attack nearby cav behind them. I don't know if that behavior is new or not but it certainly was annoying and not at all like what I saw in his video.

The worst part is the gate though. Not only can the unit you park there not spread out so your own art won't kill it, but that archer unit in there will gleefully shoot the legionnaire to death the entire time they are standing there. It still works fairly well if the legionnaire is off to the side instead of blocking the gate, but that means enemies will probably get through and envelop the legionnaire.

If I were to balance the battle without making extensive changes I would make all the Romans rank 7-9 and remove all the barbarian chevrons. I think that would be enough to make it balanced to the point of being enjoyable while still keeping the feel of desperately fighting off a massive attack with a few brave men.

Originally posted by Séamus:

I've still never completed the Siege of Carthage, i hate siege battles and find that one especially hard.

Carthage is about defeating the enemy in detail. The AI keeps too many units around the points so once they run out of reserves they are willing to throw at the massive Roman army storming the wall and pushing through the streets its all but over for them.