Javelinmen tactics

[Gio L'Uomo Focaccina]

any advice about how to use them properly? Many times Infantry can pre-charge shoot them with the pila and kill half of them or they get shredded by enemy archers.

So I find slingers more useful to kill enemy skirmishers and archers better at killing infantry but I have problems to make my javelinmen be worth, especially with their low ammo. Help please!

[UnDeadDemon]

Tbh they aren't really worth it once you have slingers they are alot better. Just let them die off and replace with more slingers. Or better yet replace them with some cavalry and charge down the enemy archers.

[Wayz]

Publicado originalmente por =UWS=UnDeadDemon:

Tbh they aren't really worth it once you have slingers they are alot better. Just let them die off and replace with more slingers. Or better yet replace them with some cavalry and charge down the enemy archers.

^ This
I cant even be botherd with slingers TBH even though they are good but require hands on attention and my attention is on my horse not dying while my archers safe behind the lines rain flamiing panic down on hotspots to help with shock charges.

[Meatcleave]

Javelins are good vs heavy infantry just make sure that you lock the target into melee and have the javelins flank from the side or back for maximum effect. Highly recommend not using them vs front facing opponent with shield

[Salty Nobody]

Javelins have an anti large bonus so they are good at making sure missile cav keep a respectful distance if you have nothing else to counter them with.

They are also great at killing cav engaged with your infantry, the javelins will fire right over your own foot soldiers to hit the taller horsemen and murder them. Though, this is also true of archers and slingers...

Javs are also the fastest way to kill heavily armored elephants. Slingers are way too slow at that job and archers will get the job done but only after the elephants have had time to mangle some of your units. A good javelin volley will also route a scythed chariot unit... But trying to get one from an actual stationary javelin unit is leaving alot to chance.

When engaging infantry, the javelins are best used from the flanks where their very limited ammo won't be wasted on shields. They also kill off deployed pikemen faster than other missile units.

[bbolto]

Usually in campaign I'll run with 3 slingers/archers in the center and a javelin unit towards either flank. This way the longer ranged missiles can focus down enemy skirmishers whlie the javelins unload into some of the enemy infantry.

Often I'll get charged by enemy cav, but that's fine, I have a spear unit waiting behind my javelins.

Once the initial contact is made, I'll pull my javelins around the flanks. If there is, say, an enemy general with a high tier infantry unit, that guy gets priority.

If there's an elephant or chariot to deal with, that gets priority, to the point where I'll send the javelins a fair bit ahead of everyone if I think I can get a shot.

I don't usually mind taking an exchange with a good infantry unit's precursor javelins, if I've got a good javelin unit they have good enough shields for it to be an advantageous trade, and if I've got a bad javelin unit, who cares :D

[Portwills]

javs are great especially for their price. If you're facing an enemy that has archers, don't bother skirmishing with them unless there's an obvious target that can't retaliate. Leave small gaps in your front line to take full advantage of them. If you have hoplites, they'll hold the enemy while javs do most of the killing. But if I play a Greek faction I would always go for thureos spears over peltasts and do the fire support/flanking with them, but I'd still get at least one unit of javs if it's a custom battle.. And always have some handy archers to screen your army. You can end up battles with a simple javelinmen unit with over 150 kills, for the price of 220 gold.. So well worth the price and worth bringing in any battle.

[ChaosKhan]

Just think about javs as a kind of ranged shock troops. They do a lot of damage very fast, with their job beeing taking out infantry and cav and not other ranged troops. There are 2 major tactics to achieve this: You either use them to soften up or outright kill whole troops before the lines meet, or you wait for the lines to meet, send them over the flanks and throw javelins into enemys back.

It is generally true, that archers and slingers can do basically the same while still retaining the option to kill other ranged units, but they lack the sheer instantenous impact the javs have. 3 troops of cheap peasants can basically murder an elite unit with a few volleys out of existance. Other missile troops would need cosiderably more time to do so. You just need the skill and tactical provess to capitalize on it properly and as soon as possible. If you lack the skill to do so and draw out the battle, slingers and archers overshadow javelins pretty much and seem therefore better at first glance. Some tactics are only possible with javelins though and can be quite strong. For example you can amass them on a point in the line, pull back your infantry, murder the infantry troop holding the line there and then charge several cavalry units right through the gap into the enemies missiles. Again, it also can be done with other ranged troops, but the javs would do it just that much faster and this speed difference makes this breakthrough tactic just that much more potent.

[Ashina]

Which jav are we talking about Btw?
Greek one?

[Stevcorp]

They're designed as anti-cavalry.

If a cavalry unit is tied up in combat with infantry, a few rounds of javs will send them running. The unit the cavalry was fighting would probably have won anyway, but it would have tied them up for several minutes.

A few units of jav throwers can also stop a flanking sweep of cavalry that might have otherwise rolled up your line. They can also deal with a crisis, like a single horse unit skipping around and heading for your archers/slingers.

They can also tip the balance in an infantry fight. If two units are of equal strength, the one that gets javelins in the back are going to lose.

[Icecream1973]

When you have sound battle tactics, you'll never need advice on how to use any of your units.

[ChaosKhan]

Publicado originalmente por Icecream1973:

When you have sound battle tactics, you'll never need advice on how to use any of your units.

I think it is more of a meta question he is talking about. I mean, he states that archers are better at killing infantry and slingers at killing skirmishers and just searches for a nichè he can use the javelineers for. Honestly, this question isn't unwarranted, as you can easily play any battle without ever using javelin skirmishers at all and be quite fine, while it is considerably harder to play without any long range support like archers. There aren't a lot of reasons to ever pick javelins over slingers. Sure, I can use them just fine, but I have had never a situation where I thought "Man, if I only had javs instead of slingers..." while there were a lot of times when I really wished to have more long range fire instead of javs. Strictly speaking, javelineers are either poor mans flankers or very situational fire supports. It is hard to include them into armies, if you have specialized, better troops for those tasks readily available and affordable.

[Icecream1973]

Publicado originalmente por ChaosKhan:

Publicado originalmente por Icecream1973:

When you have sound battle tactics, you'll never need advice on how to use any of your units.

I think it is more of a meta question he is talking about. I mean, he states that archers are better at killing infantry and slingers at killing skirmishers and just searches for a nichè he can use the javelineers for. Honestly, this question isn't unwarranted, as you can easily play any battle without ever using javelin skirmishers at all and be quite fine, while it is considerably harder to play without any long range support like archers. There aren't a lot of reasons to ever pick javelins over slingers. Sure, I can use them just fine, but I have had never a situation where I thought "Man, if I only had javs instead of slingers..." while there were a lot of times when I really wished to have more long range fire instead of javs. Strictly speaking, javelineers are either poor mans flankers or very situational fire supports. It is hard to include them into armies, if you have specialized, better troops for those tasks readily available and affordable.

It was not my intention to imply that his question was unwarrented :-) As many others in the thread already gave lots of info on how to incorporate units/tactics/strategy, I simply choose to keep it short.

[Ashina]

I though archers are skirmisher killers because they have the most damage but low pierce, and since most skirmisher has low shield, archers will shred them.

Javelin are more anti heavy.

Slinger is the most balanced for me.

[CRISTIANO RONALDO]

Javelinmen are great unit. You have to use them on the flanks and move them behind the enemy while they are engaged with your infantry. Then you can just watch as they melt down the enemy infantry. Javelinmen, especially on horse, are great weapon against elephants and enemy cavalry as well. There is countless of times when javelinmen have saved my skin in battles thanks to their high flanking damage. Generally you don't wan't to use any of your ranged units from the front, because most enemy infantry in game have shields.

[Ashina]

Alright I managed to gather up info and this is mostly my Opinion

Archers are best against almost all Skirmishers, Pikeman, and especially falxmen, due to their low shield value. but if you managed to get those archers behind they could do significant damage due to shield value negated + their high damage.

Javelinmen are Anti Everything that's Heavy, they damage heavily damage Cavalry, enrage elephant, and can dispatch Heavy infantry very fast when fired from behind, IMO Peltast units(Light,Baktrian,Royal[not really]) are the best javelinmen with good staying power.
Eastern Javelinmen are one of the most damaging Javelinmen, they're cheap but has 12 Pierce.

Slinger are the mediocre one, they're not particually specialist against units, they can damage both light and heavy units, but their power comes from their ammunition and range, I would say that Slingers is more specialist in prolonged fighting, where both Javelin and Archers has fired all their shot, the slinger can at least have 7 more or less shot left.