How to beat Rome with the Suebi?

[Neythel]

Yes, that is my question, I would like to know what is the best strategy in units, formation and dinamics to beat Rome, if I can defeat Rome i can defeat any faction.

I hope that you people can help me.

I want to master the Suebi and Germany factions.

[Iron Ben]

Elite swords masters make mince meat out of Roman legions.

Judicial use of fear inducing troops will help a whole lot, as well as making sure you fight on your own terms (night raids ensure you will only fight one army at a time in battle).

They have the best light cav in the game, have access to arty (even naval arty), have special troops that can be deployed anywhere on the map before the battle begins, they also have very good spearmen and decent slingers.

Ps: their archers are kinda meh, so I'd stay away from them if I were you...


^_^

[TallestDavid]

use panther tanks. :D

[BreadBoi]

Use the fact that your faction can attack at night by default to your advantage. This will enable you to attack one army at a time when necessary. You'll want to invade Italy through the Alps initially (assuming they have not expanded past them). The Romans will be at a disadvantage during winter under these conditions. Use the mountains in Italy to your advantage. If there are two routes, one around either side, set one army toward a settlement, and put the other in ambush mode on the opposing side. If the Romans don't see one of your forces, they will not protect that region and will devote forces to the exposed army that you should put in a vulnerable area, but retreat if things are too heated or you're not willing to lose as many men as you might. The hidden army is then free to capture undefended (or less well defended) settlements in range. Additionally, you can use captured settlements and your forces as bait for ambush. I recommend developing your siege technology to the point of removing all attrition and laying seige to walled settlements enticing the enemy to attack outside the walls. As long as your seige force is backed up by a second force you should be fine. Back up forces can also be hidden and the enemy may attack without realizing how large your armies will be until it's too late (they can't retreat from the city after all). It would be a good idea to put a fleet or two nearby as well to protect coastal towns your ground troops need to leave, to blockade Rome's primary trade ports, and to handle any Roman navies or fleeing armies. Otherwise, they might just set up shop somewhere else. You'll want to begin the process of cultural conversion before you invade, and establishing a spy network to sabotage enemy armies, food, and infrastructure wouldn't hurt. Questions?

[VictorianMaid]

Fetch some mod. Vanilla Suebi is hopeless. I mean, Vanilla Battle is.

[MANWHATADONGA]

Preaton what can i write BRILLANT

[Adam Beckett]

Originally posted by Preston:

Use the fact that your faction can attack at night by default to your advantage. This will enable you to attack one army at a time when necessary. You'll want to invade Italy through the Alps initially (assuming they have not expanded past them). The Romans will be at a disadvantage during winter under these conditions. Use the mountains in Italy to your advantage. If there are two routes, one around either side, set one army toward a settlement, and put the other in ambush mode on the opposing side. If the Romans don't see one of your forces, they will not protect that region and will devote forces to the exposed army that you should put in a vulnerable area, but retreat if things are too heated or you're not willing to lose as many men as you might. The hidden army is then free to capture undefended (or less well defended) settlements in range. Additionally, you can use captured settlements and your forces as bait for ambush. I recommend developing your siege technology to the point of removing all attrition and laying seige to walled settlements enticing the enemy to attack outside the walls. As long as your seige force is backed up by a second force you should be fine. Back up forces can also be hidden and the enemy may attack without realizing how large your armies will be until it's too late (they can't retreat from the city after all). It would be a good idea to put a fleet or two nearby as well to protect coastal towns your ground troops need to leave, to blockade Rome's primary trade ports, and to handle any Roman navies or fleeing armies. Otherwise, they might just set up shop somewhere else. You'll want to begin the process of cultural conversion before you invade, and establishing a spy network to sabotage enemy armies, food, and infrastructure wouldn't hurt. Questions?

Somebody, who understands how to play a Total War game. A pleasure, to read.

[Neythel]

Originally posted by Iron Ben:

Elite swords masters make mince meat out of Roman legions.

Judicial use of fear inducing troops will help a whole lot, as well as making sure you fight on your own terms (night raids ensure you will only fight one army at a time in battle).

They have the best light cav in the game, have access to arty (even naval arty), have special troops that can be deployed anywhere on the map before the battle begins, they also have very good spearmen and decent slingers.

Ps: their archers are kinda meh, so I'd stay away from them if I were you...


^_^

Thank you, I had fight with the AI and it's work, now I have to try with multiplayer

[Neythel]

Originally posted by Preston:

Use the fact that your faction can attack at night by default to your advantage. This will enable you to attack one army at a time when necessary. You'll want to invade Italy through the Alps initially (assuming they have not expanded past them). The Romans will be at a disadvantage during winter under these conditions. Use the mountains in Italy to your advantage. If there are two routes, one around either side, set one army toward a settlement, and put the other in ambush mode on the opposing side. If the Romans don't see one of your forces, they will not protect that region and will devote forces to the exposed army that you should put in a vulnerable area, but retreat if things are too heated or you're not willing to lose as many men as you might. The hidden army is then free to capture undefended (or less well defended) settlements in range. Additionally, you can use captured settlements and your forces as bait for ambush. I recommend developing your siege technology to the point of removing all attrition and laying seige to walled settlements enticing the enemy to attack outside the walls. As long as your seige force is backed up by a second force you should be fine. Back up forces can also be hidden and the enemy may attack without realizing how large your armies will be until it's too late (they can't retreat from the city after all). It would be a good idea to put a fleet or two nearby as well to protect coastal towns your ground troops need to leave, to blockade Rome's primary trade ports, and to handle any Roman navies or fleeing armies. Otherwise, they might just set up shop somewhere else. You'll want to begin the process of cultural conversion before you invade, and establishing a spy network to sabotage enemy armies, food, and infrastructure wouldn't hurt. Questions?

Thank you but I'm interested in multiplayer strategy

[Salty Nobody]

I would not recommend trying to fight Rome as the Suebi in multiplayer. Barbarians in general have a bad time against Rome and for the Suebi specifically and their lack of mid level melee killing power you would be at a bit of a disadvantage...

None of your low or mid level units have the stats to reliably beat Rome in a fight (or beat them at all...) Your best bet would be to play in games with lots of money so you can spam your elites.

Now, I'm sure people will show up to say that I am dead wrong. I will be the first to admit that there are more than a few people out there that somehow, through ways beyond my comprehension, manage to wreck with the Suebi. I am not one of those people. I used to use the Suebi as one of my multi factions but they failed me so many times that I stopped.

Basically, I think the Suebi kind of suck, and that Rome itself in multiplayer requires dedicated anti-Rome builds just to reliably beat them. Builds from factions that are NOT the Suebi...

[BreadBoi]

The general strategy mentioned earlier can be used against AI or a human player. Humans can fall for the same tricks, be confused by the same predicaments, misalign priorities, and fall for traps as well. Past the Marius Reforms, Romans are a tough bunch to beat. Developing tactics technology will make your troops significantly stronger. If you're still worried about a human player, studying battlefield tactics is very helpful. The Roman Second Formation is my favorite, and I've developed others that are my own such as Trap Door and a False Retreat Formation. Famous techniques are the Pincer used by Hannibal and Scipio and the Attack in Oblique Order used by Alexander. Those can help you win battles, even against superior troops. You can search for a list of Roman formations as they have one for just about every occasion. History documentaries can help as well. I played a campaign as the Suebi a while back conquering, annexing, and confederating everything from Gaul to the Black Sea. Rome collapsed when I paid my protectorates to invade. I sent in some raiding parties to assist--practically effortless. Most Roman formations will require a basic army construction of 10 infantry (4 well armoured to be the usual center as they will likely receive the most missile fire, 4 high tiered high attack troops on the right for breaking and flanking the enemy left, and 2 high defense troops to form a slightly back set left/reserve.) 2 cavalry to to support the right, 4 archers set behind the center and the nearest side of the right, and of course your general who can be protected by the center and act as a reserve cavalry force, or if infantry, to support the left flank. This is the bare minimum for a useful 2nd formation. Beyond those base requirements you can employ more troops of any sort to specialize the army. All the armies I use, as any faction, follow a standard versatile model with varbility beyond the basics to allow for more formations and specialization, but most are identical or very nearly so. If I'm endowing a general with traits that favor archery, I'll assign him to an army with more than the standard number of archers or elite auxiliaries/mercenaries in that field. Vanilla troops are not a hinderance as long as you know very well how to exploit enemy weaknesses and avoid exposing your own. Suebi units, for example, aren't often particularly well armoured, but they have great cavalry that is better than the standard Roman Equites. If you employ your cavalry in greater numbers, breaking the Roman cavalry and taking out their missile troops while their infantry are busy fighting is a simple task. As your archers have inferior range, you'll want to aggressively close the distance rather than let things be on their terms.

[BreadBoi]

Oh, and Sebidee's Unit Roster Overhaul mod could help too. It grants multiple new units (15 on average I think) to every faction which can give you (and your enemies) more options to choose from making your forces more flexible. The units are balanced as well.

[Iron Ben]

@ Preston

Dude, very interesting, except for one thing: ever heard of paragraphs?

It'd make for a MUCH better read...


-.-

[BreadBoi]

Originally posted by Iron Ben:

@ Preston

Dude, very interesting, except for one thing: ever heard of paragraphs?

It'd make for a MUCH better read...


-.-

Lol sorry :) Duly noted.

[abrensons]

One of the hardest factiuons to start a campaign with, i lost my only attempt even after 1000h of game experience. of course i played at VH, but once you get your industry rolling it should get easier

[BreadBoi]

It is a difficult campaign. I had to be cautious until I could defeat enemy tribes to the South. Once that was out of the way, things became much easier. You can't beat them right off, so I had to slowly grow the economy to grow the military. I protected myself with ambush tactics (with the one army I could afford) and spies until I was strong enough to win. Nova Carthago is another challenging campaign.