DEI is the way to play Rome 2

[GulfcoastKilla1]

- Civilian Class System: Breaks up your population in 3 classes which limit how many of what kind of troops you can recruit.
- Supply Chain: Limit the distance your legions can travel into enemy territory unless it has a supply unit attached.
- Battles: Are longer and require you to use more in tactics/strategy.
- Diversity: The unit roster is pretty diverse as are individual soldiers' loadouts.

Overall, this is what Rome 2 should have been.

[Teh_Diplomat]

Agreed, although there are limitations with the new systems in place, it makes for a much more robust roster, tactical battles, and an entirely new building system that requires that you plan ahead for their benefits/penalties.

I went back to Vanilla Rome 2, and it just felt hollow, I would recruit a stack, move it wherever I wanted and take on Levy/Eastern Spearmen whichever direction I went. I had no limitations (or any preparations required) in movement of my armies into enemy territory.

I would simply build econ buildings and temples in my non-recruitment provinces, construct fields in poorer/smaller provinces, and use two provinces on each side of my empire to recruit units.

By turn 60 there was only the Ptolemaic faction that had any size comparable to me, but their units were never disbanded and brought back as better quality units.



In my most recent Athenia campaign in Divide et Impera I've fought the Spartan's, Aetolian League, Epirus (in Appollonia) and now Macedon and I'm at turn 15. All these battles required a mixture of missile troops recruited, and Mercenaries for my line infantry.

Once the Macedonians have been conquered I'll need to decide if I want to expand any further north, or remain friendly with the Romans to the West, and agree to Non-aggro pacts with the Northern Barbarians; while heading East into Anatolia and take on the likes of Pergamon, Bithynia, Galatia and the Seluecids.

In Vanilla, I wouldn't have to decide which direction I want to expand, I'd simply recruit more armies (up to my Imperium limit) and expand in several directions, knowing that the enemy(ies) I'll face are incredibly weak and will offer no true challenge.

Now, I've got to build up an expensive fleet, ensure I've got my transports protected while I bring them across divide between Europe and Asia. If at any point I lose a stack, or suffer a defeat out at sea it will jeopardise not just my invasion, but my entire campaign - especially if I'm forced to pull back prior to landing my forces.

[GulfcoastKilla1]

Origineel geplaatst door Teh_Diplomat:

Agreed, although there are limitations with the new systems in place, it makes for a much more robust roster, tactical battles, and an entirely new building system that requires that you plan ahead for their benefits/penalties.

I went back to Vanilla Rome 2, and it just felt hollow, I would recruit a stack, move it wherever I wanted and take on Levy/Eastern Spearmen whichever direction I went. I had no limitations (or any preparations required) in movement of my armies into enemy territory.

I would simply build econ buildings and temples in my non-recruitment provinces, construct fields in poorer/smaller provinces, and use two provinces on each side of my empire to recruit units.

By turn 60 there was only the Ptolemaic faction that had any size comparable to me, but their units were never disbanded and brought back as better quality units.



In my most recent Athenia campaign in Divide et Impera I've fought the Spartan's, Aetolian League, Epirus (in Appollonia) and now Macedon and I'm at turn 15. All these battles required a mixture of missile troops recruited, and Mercenaries for my line infantry.

Once the Macedonians have been conquered I'll need to decide if I want to expand any further north, or remain friendly with the Romans to the West, and agree to Non-aggro pacts with the Northern Barbarians; while heading East into Anatolia and take on the likes of Pergamon, Bithynia, Galatia and the Seluecids.

In Vanilla, I wouldn't have to decide which direction I want to expand, I'd simply recruit more armies (up to my Imperium limit) and expand in several directions, knowing that the enemy(ies) I'll face are incredibly weak and will offer no true challenge.

Now, I've got to build up an expensive fleet, ensure I've got my transports protected while I bring them across divide between Europe and Asia. If at any point I lose a stack, or suffer a defeat out at sea it will jeopardise not just my invasion, but my entire campaign - especially if I'm forced to pull back prior to landing my forces.

That sounds intense. I'm currently on my first full dedicated rome playthrough (I had to restart after a patch) now that I've got some time on my hands and I love how it forces you to think of what direction you want to go. Right now I reached my strategy of conquering Iberia, with my Syracuse allies, and France. To the point where I have my side of the Rhine secured. I'm not sure whether to have a legion to patrol and defend while I invade the Iceni and their allies in England or to just hold off the sea attacks and push east out of Italy into the "Ariadei" while subjugating the Greeks before pressing to the real East.

[BRAN MAC BORN]

DEI is A way to play the game just not the only way to play. You can play the game in any way fashion you like as there are many mods to chose from. I have used many a mod in my time with the game and the one that personally matches my playing style is WARS OF THE GODS-ANCIENT WARS.

[MANWHATADONGA]

Origineel geplaatst door BRAN MAC BORN:

DEI is A way to play the game just not the only way to play. You can play the game in any way fashion you like as there are many mods to chose from. I have used many a mod in my time with the game and the one that personally matches my playing style is WARS OF THE GODS-ANCIENT WARS.

Dead set right BMB,another useless thread from frantic DEI fanboys.

[ToonTotalWar]

Disagree with OP, there are many other mods including "wars of the Gods" mod which was in development way before DEI mod. DEI is a mod that is designed and replicated if you like playing Europa barbourium style gameplay like in original Rome Total war. WOTG is like playing RS2 or SPQR again from original Rome Total war.

[Alwyn]

The new features of DEI sound like an enjoyable additional challenge. I imagine that both DEI and Wars of the Gods are a lot of fun.

Teh_Diplomat mentions not having to think about where to expand with vanilla. I can see how that's true for some factions (especially ones with strong rosters and starting positions) and for experienced players. However, in vanilla campaigns as Saba, Carthage and Masaesyli/Numidia, I needed to think about how to expand.

As Saba, I had an initial dilemma - should I support Egypt or the Seleucids in their big war? I chose 'neither' and this worked well, allowing me to defeat other small factions in the Arabian Peninsula while the big powers wore each other down. However, I waited too long to start expanding out of the Peninsula, allowing the Galatians and Nabatea to form empires and replace Egypt and the Seleucids are the major powers in the Middle East. This meant that I needed to plan carefully again.

As Carthage, I re-started a couple of Carthage campaigns after trying to expand towards Rome and Syracuse. Rome could produce better-quality units in greater quantity than I could and they kept sending legions. I needed to re-think my strategy. Expanding in Iberia while slowing down the advance of Rome worked better.

As the Masaesyli, my economy was very poor in the early campaign, so expanding in any direction was a real challenge. Here, the initial dilemmas were whether to side with Carthage or Rome and whether to confederate early with the Gaetuli, forming Numidia (giving me an extra region and a sea port, but removing a friendly nation and a trading partner) or to wait (risking the possibilities that the Gaetuli might be eliminated or might become hostile, making confederation impossible).

I'm surprised by the comments about being free to expand in any direction, taking on "Levy/Eastern Spearmen", "knowing" that the enemy armies would be "incredibly weak". Maybe that was true with previous patches, but my experience is different. It's true that, at the start of the campaign, opponents have basic spearmen - I'm using similar units then, that's what I can recruit and afford. However, I'm soon fighting better armies. Playing as Carthage, I recently fought a full-stack Treverii army which was almost all Chosen Swordsmen and Chosen Spearmen. Playing as Numidia and fighting the Lusitani, I'm fighting armies with Veteran Shield Warriors and Scutarii Spearmen - challenging opponents for Numidia - and now I'm seeing Lusitani Nobles, Balearic Slingers and Lusitani Spearmen too. In a previous Carthage campaign, I saw AI Rome invade Africa with a post-Marian reforms army quite early on, while I was still using hoplites and peltasts. (Of course, AI Rome doesn't always make a beeline for the reforms of Marius, but they did in that campaign).

I can see the attraction of diverse unit rosters (mentioned in the OP), and as I understand it, both DEI and Wars of the Gods offer many new units. While I've enjoyed unit packs with previous games, and I can easily see how people would enjoy them with Rome II, I enjoy the challenge of playing with a more restricted roster. I like the way that some factions will struggle in some situations because your roster doesn't have all types of units. I like needing to think about how to overcome those shortcomings, through creative use of the units I have in battle, or different strategies (like expanding in Iberia as the early campaign as Carthage because my hoplites can't match Rome's swordsmen), or mercenaries, or levying units from client states or satrapies.

[ToonTotalWar]

Nicely put Alwyn and good to see someone from TWC is diplomatic and not the brainwashed fanboys of DEI who have blinkers on that do not know of any other mods out there to play which is astonishing to me.

[Alwyn]

Thanks, the modding skill and commitment in both DEI and Wars of the Gods look amazing, based on the After Action Reports I've seen.

I'm not surprised that people who like these mods want to tell people about them. You've found (or even built) something you really enjoy and you want other people to have this great experience.

If people would like an introduction to Wars of the Gods, I'd recommend Zachman1201's Sparta videos: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?791958-Let-s-Play-Wars-of-the-Gods-Ancient-Wars-(Sparta) .

For an introduction to DEI, there's Paladin94610's Pride of the Kartli AAR: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?760239-Pride-of-the-Kartli-DeI-Kartli-AAR-November-26-Update

[Welsh Dragon]

As others have said, DEI (and other overhauls) are one way to play. But they aren't the only way. The vanilla game itself is a solid and fun game, and for some of us it provides exactly what we're looking for. Mods allow others to tweak and tailor the game to their preferences.

But there are a myriad different ways to play this game.

If you want to play vanilla, play vanilla.

If you want to use a few small mods, do that.

If you want to play with one of the big overhauls like DEI, Radious, War of the Gods, Hellenica (think that's another one,) then play with them.

If you thought the game was better for you with an earlier patch, roll back the game through the betas tab.

Find what works for you and have fun.

But don't fall into the trap of thinking that just because X setup is the best for you, it's the best for everyone. We're all different. My own experiences are much like Alwyn's, that the game is a lot of fun and challenging without mods, so we don't feel the need to add them. But other people do, and that's fair enough.

Ultimately, as long as we're having fun, does it really matter?

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[ToonTotalWar]

I agree, all mods have there different styles of gameplay and having followed and conversed with creators of the larger overhaul mods over a number of years it is only good stuff that will continue in the modding community for us all to enjoy.

[BRAN MAC BORN]

Is Alwyn and Welsh Dragon one and the same? Are they clones? They seem to say the same things in the same way. Maybe they have some sort of telepathic link.

[Welsh Dragon]

Origineel geplaatst door BRAN MAC BORN:

Is Alwyn and Welsh Dragon one and the same? Are they clones? They seem to say the same things in the same way. Maybe they have some sort of telepathic link.

Haha.

Nah. But just like you and Toon make a good team for your mod, Alwyn and I are often on the same wavelength when it comes to Total War and Rome 2 in particular.

(Of course that analogy backfires spectacularly if you and Toon ARE clones...! )

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Actionjackson]

For my taste DEI is best, not everyone may like it but for my, only way to play. great mod

[MANWHATADONGA]

Next Total War, Clones Word Wars i like to see that

[Welsh Dragon]

Origineel geplaatst door MANWHATADONGA:

Next Total War, Clones Word Wars i like to see that

Begun, this Clone War has..

Best the All,

Welsh Yoda.