Do satrapies and client states betray you after some time ?

[Blitzwing]

Do satrapies and client states betray you after some time ?

Hi, what is better,
make everyting part of your empire or have supporting satrapies and client states?

[Welsh Dragon]

It's less they betray you, and more that at time they have a habit of picking fights with each other, meaning you have to pick a side and that hurts your reputation with other factions.

As for which is better, really depends on the campaign and personal preference. I tend to use the tools that fit the situation, depending on what's going on in the game and how it fits into my overall plans.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Myrmidon]

It depends to an extent on the difficulty being played I think. Client States always seem to 'unclient themselves' at some point although I've never had one specifically declare war or attack me after doing so but I reckon it's only because I moved military deterrants to the right places. If I hadn't I reckon they would have attacked. Satrapies I'm not sure because they're far harsher than client states. Think of Satrapies as tier 1 whereas client states are tier 2.

In my experience they're really only worth it as a means to stop wars between allies or to indirectly hold a piece of land so one can get provincial bonuses. The tribute they give per turn in exchange for protection is ridiculously low and inconsequential. Personally I think you should be able to manage the restrictions and tribute extortions you place on your client states and satrapies with lower loyalty to you being the penalty for higher tributes etc.

Edit: Tribunes?!

[Blitzwing]

so they start fight each other and get hostile ?

OK, large empire that is, thanks

[Voltronjeremy]

Originally posted by Welsh Dragon:

It's less they betray you, and more that at time they have a habit of picking fights with each other, meaning you have to pick a side and that hurts your reputation with other factions.

As for which is better, really depends on the campaign and personal preference. I tend to use the tools that fit the situation, depending on what's going on in the game and how it fits into my overall plans.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

In my own experience, Satrapies never fight with one another. They're basically subordinates of your empire, so they're only allowed to declare war on the things you declare war on. So long as you keep them relatively happy they'll pretty much never betray you.

Client states are basically just defensive allies that pay tribute to you. As Welsh pointed out, they'll usually just expand on their own until they bump up against another client state and force you to pick a side.

Important to note that making a faction your Satrapy will result in them immediately making peace with all the factions they're at war with. Making a faction a client state doesn't actually force peace, meaning they can be wiped out a turn later with nothing to show for it.

Personally, I find Satrapies an interesting and somewhat enjoyable mechanic. When I'm playing the Sassanids I'll usually satrapy some of the smaller, single-province, factions like the Himyar or the Lakhmids, just to decrease the chances of enemy factions declaring war on me (Satrapy factions count towards your factional strength).

Pretty much never use client states. Alliance or invasion feels preferable.

[Dragonrubi]

(Sorry not trying to derail Blitzwing thread)

Also do you know if it is possible to forma client state peaceful just by diplomacy? Or the only way is being forced by the arms?

[Blitzwing]

Originally posted by dragonrubi:

(Sorry not trying to derail Blitzwing thread)

Also do you know if it is possible to forma client state peaceful just by diplomacy? Or the only way is being forced by the arms?

war, war never changes

[Welsh Dragon]

Originally posted by Voltronjeremy:

Originally posted by Welsh Dragon:

It's less they betray you, and more that at time they have a habit of picking fights with each other, meaning you have to pick a side and that hurts your reputation with other factions.

As for which is better, really depends on the campaign and personal preference. I tend to use the tools that fit the situation, depending on what's going on in the game and how it fits into my overall plans.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

In my own experience, Satrapies never fight with one another. They're basically subordinates of your empire, so they're only allowed to declare war on the things you declare war on. So long as you keep them relatively happy they'll pretty much never betray you.

Client states are basically just defensive allies that pay tribute to you. As Welsh pointed out, they'll usually just expand on their own until they bump up against another client state and force you to pick a side.

Important to note that making a faction your Satrapy will result in them immediately making peace with all the factions they're at war with. Making a faction a client state doesn't actually force peace, meaning they can be wiped out a turn later with nothing to show for it.

Personally, I find Satrapies an interesting and somewhat enjoyable mechanic. When I'm playing the Sassanids I'll usually satrapy some of the smaller, single-province, factions like the Himyar or the Lakhmids, just to decrease the chances of enemy factions declaring war on me (Satrapy factions count towards your factional strength).

Pretty much never use client states. Alliance or invasion feels preferable.

Thanks for the additional info. I haven't played Eastern factions much so not that familiar with Satrapies.

Originally posted by dragonrubi:

(Sorry not trying to derail Blitzwing thread)

Also do you know if it is possible to forma client state peaceful just by diplomacy? Or the only way is being forced by the arms?

You can gain them peacefully through diplomacy, but it usually takes a lot for a faction to give up its independence, so can be hard to pull off. Still, an option.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Voltronjeremy]

Originally posted by dragonrubi:

(Sorry not trying to derail Blitzwing thread)

Also do you know if it is possible to forma client state peaceful just by diplomacy? Or the only way is being forced by the arms?

Wait for them to get into a war with another faction. When they start to lose (or if they're up against a sufficiently strong faction) you can offer to turn them into a client state or a satrapy. You need to be careful about doing that with client states though. You don't join the war or stop it, so they can still get wiped out next turn and all you'll get is the negative diplomacy for forming a treaty.

So far as I'm aware, it's possible to do this even with factions that dislike or hate you. I had one with ~200 dislike and they initiated the offer to become my client state.

Also, not that it was asked here, but you can use the same method for forming tribal confederations. If you're strong enough then you can accomplish all of this just by declaring war and including it with the peace treaty.

Edit: And no problem Welsh. I played Sassanids for ED and went crazy on the satrapies, so it's all pretty fresh in my mind.