Can't make armies without generals?

[Myrmidon]

I've really tried getting into Rome II so many times and have uninstalled so many times because I just hate the interface and simultaniously dumbed down yet ambigious building browser. Anyway it seems that you can't create armies or even small forces unless you have a general and your stacks are essentially limited to how many individual generals you have is this correct?

I just find it dumb. I guess it's realistic if we're talking figures of more than a few hundred... A cohort would probably get a tribune which I guess in essence is sort of a 'general' but a century of 80 princepes you need a general? Really? That I'm sorry to say is not realistic and is just bloody annoying. Most of my stacks on Rome-I were fairly small but I had lots of them but now this doesn't seem possible.

[Imperator]

I don't think Rome ever raised just 3 cohorts, always on the Legion scale.

That being said Cohorts were in essence 10 small armies as part of a bigger army and could in fact be sent off by the Legions commander or the guy who "owns" them as would be the case with G Julius Caesar, having something like 8 legions under his command he wasnt actually in direct command of all 8.

So we should be able to send a cohort to guard this town, a cohort the block that path, a third cohort to take that city that has no enemy soldiers while the rest of the legion marches on.


Further more I think it would be exceptionally cool if we could break the Cohorts down into Centuries which if I'm not mistaken were the smallest official combat units of Rome consisting of 10 contruburnium or 80 men (and 20 slaves)

So sat you're using a mod that gives you the proper 480 manned infantry units (and mods to increase AI size to be competitive) and you're unwalled vI'll age the legion is in gets attacked. Instead of cramming 480 men into a street where half of them are doing nothing anyhow. You could break off 5 centuries and have them go somewhere else.

In game it would be like the war game grouping system.

Select the cohort in the info panel with he formation options there would be one for breaking up. It would then show the 10 centuries, select the ones you want and the click the group up button and those centuries you've picked become a sperate unit. Want to make a full cohort again? Select up to 10 centuries and click group up.

It's so simple and logical.

[Myrmidon]

Originally posted by MARSHALL:

I don't think Rome ever raised just 3 cohorts, always on the Legion scale.

That being said Cohorts were in essence 10 small armies as part of a bigger army and could in fact be sent off by the Legions commander or the guy who "owns" them as would be the case with G Julius Caesar, having something like 8 legions under his command he wasnt actually in direct command of all 8.

So we should be able to send a cohort to guard this town, a cohort the block that path, a third cohort to take that city that has no enemy soldiers while the rest of the legion marches on.


Further more I think it would be exceptionally cool if we could break the Cohorts down into Centuries which if I'm not mistaken were the smallest official combat units of Rome consisting of 10 contruburnium or 80 men (and 20 slaves)

So sat you're using a mod that gives you the proper 480 manned infantry units (and mods to increase AI size to be competitive) and you're unwalled vI'll age the legion is in gets attacked. Instead of cramming 480 men into a street where half of them are doing nothing anyhow. You could break off 5 centuries and have them go somewhere else.

In game it would be like the war game grouping system.

Select the cohort in the info panel with he formation options there would be one for breaking up. It would then show the 10 centuries, select the ones you want and the click the group up button and those centuries you've picked become a sperate unit. Want to make a full cohort again? Select up to 10 centuries and click group up.

It's so simple and logical.

There are literally thousands of examples where they would use groups of men around as centuries or in some cases even less. Rome had a lot of outposts in the ass end of nowhere that could often only be held by about 80 men. They would of course get rotated so other groups of 80 or so would be marching over and others would be marching back. There's also occasions where settlements and outposts would send reinforcements and it's naive to think it would always be in the thousands, it could be as little as 40. Just wish we could manage these little supplements around our main forces. Also what if you want to reassign some cavalry? They operate in far far smaller units... In some cases as small as 20.

[easytarget]

If you're not enjoying this one, maybe just let it go and play some of the other TW titles you do enjoy...

[Imperator]

Originally posted by easytarget:

If you're not enjoying this one, maybe just let it go and play some of the other TW titles you do enjoy...

but i do enjoy the game... just with everything there are ways to improve it

[Myrmidon]

Originally posted by MARSHALL:

Originally posted by easytarget:

If you're not enjoying this one, maybe just let it go and play some of the other TW titles you do enjoy...

but i do enjoy the game... just with everything there are ways to improve it

Indeed I'm trying to enjoy it and really Roman ancient warfare is my thing... Rome-1 had such incredible mods and some truly phenomenal total conversions with graphics on par with Rome-II... If only Rome-II could have such mods as well...

[easytarget]

The phrase "trying to enjoy" sort of gives it a way though doesn't it, it's not supposed to be work to enjoy something.

[Imperator]

it might be delving deeper into micro-managing than they intended but would also really like to

>Be able to distribute my slaves around my empire personally

>When fighting multiple factions in one battle choose which people get executed, released or enslaved

>Choose how much of your prisoners from the battle are executed, enslaved, or released

>How much the Client States pay in tribute from 5% all the way to 95% increasing in incriments of 5

>Demand your Satrappies muster armies/navies and specifying of what units, and then:
>>Ordering them to attack specific targets, at which point:
>>>Being able to watch them if you dont have your own army participating
>>>Being able to issue generic orders to them if you have your own forces participating IE: move here, attack that, but not tell them what formation to use or trigger their abilities

>Being able to tell your allies who reinforce you to do generic things such as move there and attack that.

>Being able to arrange what order and in what position and formation your reinforcments come in within the "reinforcement zone" (where they come in at... which would of course require that zone be much more reliably closer to their position on the campaign map reletive to the primary force of the battle

>And that whole break up of Cohorts to Centuries and regroup them

be able to enter in exactly how much $$$ you want to offer or demand instead of a % of your treasury... its annoying when you manage to save up 130 million and the lowest you can offer is 1.3 million but the most you can demand is like 150 grand which means they have a treasure of 1.5 million... soo the lowest amount you could offer is nearly the entirety of their treasury.. (yeah sure you can click offer, go up 1 notch and then demand and then back to offer to end up being able to offer the same as you could demand but thats still bogus)

and the taxes.. why the heck they decided to have the ONE tax braket for the whole empire is beyond me... it really should be based at the very least by provence and at the best by region.




way out of no where... being able to raise an entirely new settlement. would have to be in a suitable area (like not in a mountain pass that is barely large enough to march through). would cost a pretty hefty amount and would depend on the area, and the kind of settlement you wished to build. and from this the ability to build walls for the other settlements, obviously not the massive multi layered fortresses of the capitols but some kind of wall.

and then the forts, this should depend on the faction and some were better at building than others, lookin at you Rome you glorious bastard. Fortify your troops, and its just that crappy 4 wall 4 tower thing we already have, but then upgrade it like a building in a city. taller thicker walls, earthen mounds, more walls, walkways on the walls, larger internal area so on so forth. and then you would have x amount of turns to place troops back into it once you march out, the number of turns increasing the more you upgrade it so it wouldnt be a waste


and finally be able to issue threats and ultimatums to other factions. im sick of seeing other MOFO's marching troops in and out of my empire and nothing bad happens unless i feel like declaring war. sooo pop into diplomacy find those scumbags and select threat or ultimatum, select the reason / condition and then the consequence if they dont comply and to finish it a number of turns in which to complete the demand. and if you issue the ultimatum of remove your troops and see them killed and they dont remove their troops withing a specifid time frame you can engage them in combat with out actually declaring war on them..... but these actions would of course have dimplomatic consequences and could see them declare war on you. (and yes its very hipocratic of me because i ignore boarders when i march troops into foreign land to prepare to assault them taking massive chunks of their empire in one fell swoop.... but if they didnt want it to happen they should have attacked my troops... or if this was implimented issue an ultimatum lol)

[Imperator]

holy bujesus... thats ALLOT bigger than i expected.. sorry about that...

[bbolto]

All that sounds like a lot of fun but I've never seen anything like that kind of scope in Total War games

In fact, I don't know that I've seen specific threats and ultimatums in any game with diplomacy, as handy as it might be sometimes. There are usually kludges (in Rome 2 you can revoke military access, and that usually stops the AI from marching in too often; Rome 1 had almost no functional diplomacy, really lived up to the "Total War" name)

[Imperator]

Originally posted by bbolto:

All that sounds like a lot of fun but I've never seen anything like that kind of scope in Total War games :reexcited:

In fact, I don't know that I've seen specific threats and ultimatums in any game with diplomacy, as handy as it might be sometimes. There are usually kludges (in Rome 2 you can revoke military access, and that usually stops the AI from marching in too often; Rome 1 had almost no functional diplomacy, really lived up to the "Total War" name)

and if you have no treaties at all with the people? then what? lmao

diplomacy is a part of war. it wasnt all that often that nations would set out to entirely destroy another and if they could acomplish what they wanted without risking the lifes of their soldiers they would jump at the oportunity. heck even if they got satisfactory results from diplomacy with a peoples so they could end the war with them to focus on a more pressing issue they would often do it.

threats and ultimatums are just as much a part of "international relations" as trade and war. Rome loved issuing such things, to other peoples and their own lol

[Berserk Belta]

I like the game as it is now, but basically agree with most of your points.

I could tolerate the general system, as similar things in other strategy games turned out to improve game-play, and have grown to be kinda ok with it, but if I'm honest I did prefer it the other way: Whilst men would know their attachment and commander for sure, detachments were very much a thing in a busy Roman empire, with men being posted and transferred hither and thither as necessity demanded, and they most certainly did not have to have what gets called a "general" with them to travel. Thing is, smaller forces is one of the things people endlessly moaned about and the odd cry of "be careful what you ask for" from the rest of us got shouted down, so we got what people asked for.

Diplomacy, I think there was still a place for give region even if you could buy chunks of the world with it in a very easy way sometimes (I actually remember a campaign where I bought most of France as one of my favourite MP campaigns years ago, I focused on making money while the other player didn't, et voila instant conquest) - I can see why they removed it but I wish they hadn't. I think the "accept or we will attack" option should have been in Rome II and actually working properly. On the other hand, what there is of diplomacy is mostly more actually functional than it was in the past and moreso than in some other quite popular strategy games where it doesn't do much to change the game, and once you get used to it the UI does pretty much explain exactly how everyone feels about everyone else, and why.

Diplomacy is one area where, like Roman infantry formations and manoeuvres, I feel they missed some golden opportunities to improve on the previous game in the detail.

[Myrmidon]

Originally posted by MARSHALL:

it might be delving deeper into micro-managing than they intended but would also really like to

>Be able to distribute my slaves around my empire personally

>When fighting multiple factions in one battle choose which people get executed, released or enslaved

>Choose how much of your prisoners from the battle are executed, enslaved, or released

>How much the Client States pay in tribute from 5% all the way to 95% increasing in incriments of 5

>Demand your Satrappies muster armies/navies and specifying of what units, and then:
>>Ordering them to attack specific targets, at which point:
>>>Being able to watch them if you dont have your own army participating
>>>Being able to issue generic orders to them if you have your own forces participating IE: move here, attack that, but not tell them what formation to use or trigger their abilities

>Being able to tell your allies who reinforce you to do generic things such as move there and attack that.

>Being able to arrange what order and in what position and formation your reinforcments come in within the "reinforcement zone" (where they come in at... which would of course require that zone be much more reliably closer to their position on the campaign map reletive to the primary force of the battle

>And that whole break up of Cohorts to Centuries and regroup them

be able to enter in exactly how much $$$ you want to offer or demand instead of a % of your treasury... its annoying when you manage to save up 130 million and the lowest you can offer is 1.3 million but the most you can demand is like 150 grand which means they have a treasure of 1.5 million... soo the lowest amount you could offer is nearly the entirety of their treasury.. (yeah sure you can click offer, go up 1 notch and then demand and then back to offer to end up being able to offer the same as you could demand but thats still bogus)

and the taxes.. why the heck they decided to have the ONE tax braket for the whole empire is beyond me... it really should be based at the very least by provence and at the best by region.




way out of no where... being able to raise an entirely new settlement. would have to be in a suitable area (like not in a mountain pass that is barely large enough to march through). would cost a pretty hefty amount and would depend on the area, and the kind of settlement you wished to build. and from this the ability to build walls for the other settlements, obviously not the massive multi layered fortresses of the capitols but some kind of wall.

and then the forts, this should depend on the faction and some were better at building than others, lookin at you Rome you glorious bastard. Fortify your troops, and its just that crappy 4 wall 4 tower thing we already have, but then upgrade it like a building in a city. taller thicker walls, earthen mounds, more walls, walkways on the walls, larger internal area so on so forth. and then you would have x amount of turns to place troops back into it once you march out, the number of turns increasing the more you upgrade it so it wouldnt be a waste


and finally be able to issue threats and ultimatums to other factions. im sick of seeing other MOFO's marching troops in and out of my empire and nothing bad happens unless i feel like declaring war. sooo pop into diplomacy find those scumbags and select threat or ultimatum, select the reason / condition and then the consequence if they dont comply and to finish it a number of turns in which to complete the demand. and if you issue the ultimatum of remove your troops and see them killed and they dont remove their troops withing a specifid time frame you can engage them in combat with out actually declaring war on them..... but these actions would of course have dimplomatic consequences and could see them declare war on you. (and yes its very hipocratic of me because i ignore boarders when i march troops into foreign land to prepare to assault them taking massive chunks of their empire in one fell swoop.... but if they didnt want it to happen they should have attacked my troops... or if this was implimented issue an ultimatum lol)

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ A. I like this guy. It's like reading the traumatic rantings from the back of my own mind regarding Rome-II

[Imperator]

Originally posted by Myrmidon:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ A. I like this guy. It's like reading the traumatic rantings from the back of my own mind regarding Rome-II

lmao... traumatic? rantings sure, but traumatic? ok.. well i guess on sheer size it could cause some trauma lol.

[e+]

Guys, the game is f**king broken just with no ways to trade regions or even cede regions through diplomacy, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up Sparta and Dacia trade and here you are complaining about the division of the military. I mean, I like what you have written but do not think for a second CA is implementing ANY kind of logic when making what they would call "a historical" game.
♥♥♥♥, I wish there was some CK2-EUIV-Civilizaion-TotalWar type of game set in the ancient world but I am absolutely sure no such thing will EVER exist and you know why? Cause guys like us do not code and even if we did, nobody would buy our product. End of story.

[Imperator]

Originally posted by ePlus:

Guys, the game is f**king broken just with no ways to trade regions or even cede regions through diplomacy, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up Sparta and Dacia trade and here you are complaining about the division of the military. I mean, I like what you have written but do not think for a second CA is implementing ANY kind of logic when making what they would call "a historical" game.
♥♥♥♥, I wish there was some CK2-EUIV-Civilizaion-TotalWar type of game set in the ancient world but I am absolutely sure no such thing will EVER exist and you know why? Cause guys like us do not code and even if we did, nobody would buy our product. End of story.

i [insert fancy G word for promise] you if i were to make a game in the spirit of Rome 2 with all the things i wanted to do and avoid law suites people would buy it... as long as i coded it propper and didnt have it ridden with bugs