Pontus: any advice?

[Alwyn]

Previously, I enjoyed reading the discussion about how to play the Iceni, so I thought I would try starting a similar discussion about a different faction.

Previously, when playing an eastern faction, I have played as Cimmeria and Colchis. Reading Junius' new Pontus AAR, Between the Mountains and the Sea, http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?750154-Between-the-Mountains-and-the-Sea-DeI-Pontus-Grand-Campaign - inspired me to look at Pontus.

The Persian and Greek heritage of the Kingdom of Pontus seems to have given them a powerful roster including hoplites, pikemen and thureos spears, archers and peltasts, swordsmen, several powerful cavalry units and even scythed chariots: http://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/unit.php?f=rom_pontus.

I wonder if people would like to recommend strategies and tactics for playing with this intriguing faction?

[Harper]

Alwyn, This is a good topic and there are many with excellent comments and ideas (Welsh Dragon, bbolto, donaldclarke1, Delacourt '27, Welsh Wizard, Owedevil, Ralph Roberts, ...to name a few), as it will be good to hear from them as well as new players for recent experience. I will be out of pocket a few hours, and will contirbute when I return. R, Harper

[bbolto]

Let me see if I remember...

You're in the middle of the succession wars so your strategy is going to depend on what happens, but you have a general diplomatic bonus so you get to pick your targets. It's usually a good idea to pick a fight with the Seleucids and their satrapies (Sardes) but again that depends. If, say, Armenia starts conquering everything maybe you should ally with the Seleucids against them.

Obviously you want to look for any opportunities to consolidate your home province, so if Tylis or the Odrysians take out Bithynia, for example, you should view that as an opportunity. Likewise Colchis vs. Trapezos. Also, southwards, so Sardes, Cappadocia, and maybe Galatia can be targets.

You start out at war with Cimmeria, but besides building a small force to help watch your back, you can usually ignore that until you start sharing a border. It takes about 3 turns to cross the Black Sea so you should have ample warning. Cimmeria tends to have other things to worry about as well (you should know, you played them )

[Alwyn]

Thanks, Harper! bbolto, your advice is helpful. The succession wars sound like a challenge! I like the idea of being able to pick targets - yes, it makes sense to see what other factions in the area do.

You're right, Cimmeria starts at war with the Siraces (to the east of Cimmeria's home regions). Playing as Cimmeria, I usually make peace with Pontus in the first turn, to focus on the Siraces. (The first time I played as Cimmeria, I took one of the armies to sea in transports, to attack a navy belonging to Pontus - a bad mistake!). I wonder if making peace with Cimmeria would be a good first-turn move for Pontus (so that I could focus on closer targets such as the ones which you mentioned)?

[Welsh Dragon]

Surprisingly, given my many, many hours of playing this game, I've never really played Pontus (or the other Eastern Culture factions... I'm just terrible with Cavalry no matter what Total War it is.) They do tend to be a pain in my butt when I play Cimmeria with A More Aggressive AI mod.

But in general I'd say make the most of your versatile roster, perhaps augmented by levying from any satrapies you create. Your centralised location in the region is a double edged sword, as it gives you plenty of options to expand, but also plenty of neighbours who are potential enemies. So try to only pick fights you think you can win, and always check what allies a faction has before declaring war on them, because if you don't you can get a cascade of war declarations on you.

Hope that helps.

All the Best

Welsh Dragon.

[Alwyn]

Thanks, Welsh Dragon - yes, I wonder if Cimmeria would be a similar pain in the butt of Pontus, especially as I use that mod. Good point about levying from satrapies, I only recent discovered this feature and it seems to offer intriguing possibilities. Yes, I find using factions which rely on cavalry difficult too. Maybe Pontus could be a good introduction to playing such factions - they tend to have weak infantry, but Pontus has some decent infantry. Pontus could use a defensive line of hoplites (or, perhaps, pikemen and swordsmen) as an anvil, with cavalry as the hammer.

[Welsh Dragon]

Originally posted by Alwyn:

Thanks, Welsh Dragon - yes, I wonder if Cimmeria would be a similar pain in the butt of Pontus, especially as I use that mod. Good point about levying from satrapies, I only recent discovered this feature and it seems to offer intriguing possibilities. Yes, I find using factions which rely on cavalry difficult too. Maybe Pontus could be a good introduction to playing such factions - they tend to have weak infantry, but Pontus has some decent infantry. Pontus could use a defensive line of hoplites (or, perhaps, pikemen and swordsmen) as an anvil, with cavalry as the hammer.

I haven't really used levying much, but I did see one person who had used that extensively when playing Sparta for what looked to be some very interesting armies.

If you're going to use levying this mod may be worth a try:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=339408767

Have fun!

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[bbolto]

Originally posted by Welsh Dragon:

Surprisingly, given my many, many hours of playing this game, I've never really played Pontus (or the other Eastern Culture factions... I'm just terrible with Cavalry no matter what Total War it is.) They do tend to be a pain in my butt when I play Cimmeria with A More Aggressive AI mod. :spacemonster:

Pontus isn't very cavalry-centric, they're more like Macedon with a solid infantry base and a strong cavalry hammer. Which is nice, but you don't have to lean on your cavalry the way you do as Armenia or Parthia. (also, you don't have horse archers)

[MANWHATADONGA]

I don't play as Pontus had quick go.1 your armies are weak go for supply tech,upgrades army. then build 2 muster buildings again giving better infantary cavalary.3 go after trapenus or Cappadoicia.I prefer Trapenus only one city to worry about being your navey to.4Tech land management then merceneries to improve miltary building give archers and better infantary.5If your spy is good keep and hire a bad one,if in your game not possible send him west this should be in your first or second turn go to macadonia and along coast Ardina to get trade treaties keep going along coast Spain to britania up to Cimbra remember more trade more money.6Your admiral if good like increae industries swap for a poor one.Watch your food supply.Next go after Cappadocia for iron should upgrade your army weapons extra and wine increase money.If you see Eygpty beating the selucidies go after them or their sapties .I play with mods but the logic is sound.Remember more trade costs nothing( unless you bribe)= more money to spend on income producing buildings=more money in treasurie = more to spend on miltary buildings=better armies. navies.GOOD LUCK.

[Harper]

Alwyn, Lot of great tips already, and I will try to add without repeating hopefully. I have fought against Pontus as Rome, Massilia, Syracuse, Iceni, Scythia, Seleucids, Athens, Cimmeria, and Macedon so far.

Honga RMA Link: I was unable to open your link to Honga and have reposted-

http://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/faction.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=rom_pontus&i=

Diplomacy: In most previous GC's, Pontus has conflict with a lot of their neighbours as they try to grow, and uneven support with on again / off again allies:
1) Cimmeria- usually at war, strong but conflict takes place across Black Sea, unless Cimmeria slowly grows along the coast towards you.
2) Bithynia- usually an ally, but weak
3) Galatia- sometimes an ally and other times an enemy
4) Cappodocia- same as Galatia
5) Pergamon- usually at war
6) Sardis, Seleucids satrapy- usually at war
7) Trapezos- usually at war
8) Armenia- usually at war

Resources:
1) Lumber at Sinope gives you a head start with your navy straight away.
2) Iron: conquest or trade with Cappodocia provides you access, there is also another city in Armenia to the east
3) Horses: none in immediate area, with nearest in Greece (Larissa) and Caucasus (Siracena), and others much further.

Economy: like most have already said, you have to balance between growing economy and building an army to hold onto what you have initially, then grow through conquests. So until strong enough, it would be prudent take on one conflict at a time, meaning target opponents with no allies and pick up confident & reliable allies if possible.

Technology: rotate between agricultural, military, and construction, Game forces you to balance, unless you use mods to compensate. If you do not invest in construction, and focus only on agriculture and military, then you will be stuck with level 2 towns, which are harder to defend when attacked by an opponent.

Military:
>They have a lot of good Greek & Eastern components for a strong army and navy, You can also acquire merc Cappodocia cavalry and merc Heavy Syrian archers to supplement, as you expand.
>Tactics: I believe that you have seen much of the previous works on disposition of Greek type army & navy with engagement, but I can look up and post here if you would like. Let me know.

[Alwyn]

Yes, there are excellent tips for playing Pontus already, thank you Harper, bbolto, Welsh Dragon and donaldclarke1! (I am impressed that you have fought against Pontus with so many factions, Harper; thanks for the working honga link - the problem was that I put the URL in brackets. I removed them, it works now).

As Harper said, it would be prudent to be take on one conflict at a time. I am using the A More Aggressive AI mod which Welsh Dragon mentioned. It's working: Cimmeria, Cappodocia, Armenia and Tylis are all at war with Pontus! I hope to maintain a situation in which one war is being actively fought, for as long as I can.

As donaldclarke1 said, the initial army of Pontus is weak, so the army of Mithridates waited until our first company of hoplites arrived - starting to build the strong infantry base which bbolto mentioned. (I built and upgraded a muster building to build better infantry, as donaldcarke1 suggested.) We marched south to take the nearest Cappodocian region. If anyone would like to see a Grand Campaign map, there is one here, you can click to expand it: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?604667-Rome-II-Campaign-Map-(Settlements-Resources-Wonders-Factions-etc).

Welsh Dragon warned that the central location of Pontus is a double edged sword, with many potential enemies, so Pontus acquired two allies, Bithynia and Trapezos. I asked Cimmeria for peace; they said no. Cappodocia's remaining region is on the far side of Galatian territory, which prevents Cappodocia and Pontus from fighting for now. Cimmeria and Tylis seem too far away to attack, at least for now (as bbolto predicted). I used the lumber at Sinope to upgrade my navy (as Harper suggested), just in case. This meant that, when Armenia declared war on Pontus, I could focus on the war with Armenia.

bbolto recommended looking for opportunities created by wars between other factions. Colchis took the nearest Armenian territory, Aramosata. I considered attacking before Colchis' army replaced their losses, but chose to wait. This turned out well: Armenia took Aramosata back. By then, my army had replaced its losses, while the Armenian army had lost many men re-taking their settlement. Pontus now holds Aramosata - but Armenia still has a lot of land and Pontus still has many enemies.