Alien is invincible?

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

So I get the not being damaged by fire thing. I even buy the idea that small arms fire doesn't make a dent...
Immune to pipebombs? Seriously? Immune to a large explosion in its face?
Anyone else think this might be stretching suspension of disbelief past its limits?

[Max Headshot]

Escrito originalmente por dnc:

It's not really biological like us; it's bio-mechanical - they're more machine than biology. They've been designed as a weapon by an advanced alien civilization; possibly for the reason for removing experiments they've made over thousands of years seeding other planets in the galaxy, and things go wrong or were not meant to be. They're a clean-up solution that de-stablizes a planet's eco-system so it reverts back to the way it was.
However, they're so dangerous, the were able to kill the creators themselves.

Where did you take that from ? I seems to be pretty much unscientific fan fiction to me, Weyland-Yutani looked for a biomechanical weapon but this doesn't mean that anyone has created Aliens as biomechanical weapon. I prefer an evolutionary explanation which opens room for a totally different evolution somewhere in deep space, a fantastic but nevertheless scientifically explanable new world with a lot of other species. This creator thing isn't based on widely accepted science and pretty much narrow-minded, almost as narrow-minded as a neurotic android, it makes it uninteresting and unbelievable for me.
I pretty much share your ALIENS crizism, it worked well for one movie but is a dead end for expanding the universe for new movies, especially the cannon fodder Aliens are way too much away form the perfect organism idea. It simply means that Aliens can never be antagonists for well-armored and trained people anywhere. In terms of narration developing this leads to nowhere. And why the ♥♥♥♥ should such an organism be a capable weapon for anyone, less capable than a shotgun ? This does not work.

[theo]

Escrito originalmente por stylegamr:

@DNC, I don't think the Alien was created by another race, rather it was discovered and it's potential to weaponise it was exploited. (Prometheus)
It was discovered that the alien can uniquely adapt with any known living organism, creating offshoots/mutants with unique traits (Covenant).
But honestly there is so little information of Alien available even the directors have given us contradicting theories.

New alien movies with their gigerian transhumanistic themes make everything pretty obvious. Alien WAS created, in a way. Space engineers with their advanced biotechnology and that crazy android - they all wanted to be creators, gods, and alien is the result of their actions (and maybe their mistakes). And if you know the context and ideas behind the alien universe - it just can't be the other way

And I think invincible alien in the game is a good concept

[Streuwinkel]

The Alien is not invincible you little cry babies.

Shoot it with a shotgun until it spills enough of its explosive acid to be killed by fire (only works in Soviet Russia):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e25YWJoHUTU

Trap an Alien behind the lockdown gates at the top of the stair case leading to the server room:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKa4ZdueOt8

Make it fall into an open floor panel and let it close over the Alien:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulR2-bx3xRI

[Dayve]

Yes, pipe bombs that hit it directly should kill or severely injure it. Some suspension of disbelief is required here. Personally I think the devs should not have included pipe bombs, the shotgun or the bolt gun - anything that SHOULD be able to kill the alien. They should've just had the Sevastopol-issue pistol - a self-defence pistol that only works at extreme close range and has reduced stopping power to prevent hull breaches or equipment being damaged or whatever. It could still be used against the Joes and you'd still have all the other tools for distracting/disabling them. I guess the bolt-gun could be still included and only usable at extreme close ranges. This way the alien would kill you before you ever managed to hit it with the boltgun.

BUT! They chose to include these weapons which SHOULD kill the alien, so suspension of disbelief is required. Here's what I choose to believe...

The shotgun fires hard plastic pellets. They penetrate human flesh and working joes, but bounce off the alien's metal-like skin, or only graze it and slightly hurt it (which is why it takes a little step back if you shoot it with the shotgun).

The pipe bombs are powerful enough to kill humans and joes, but not powerful enough to send shrapnel into the alien's metal-like skin deep enough to only hurt it slightly.

I don't even know how to explain the boltgun. I just use it for one part of the game (when you come out of the reactor core and get swarmed by like 10 industrial-joes) and then forget I have it for the remainder of the game.

[theo]

But shotgun or shrapnel from explosives really shouldn't kill it, only injure - and even then I believe it's supposed to have incredible regenerative abilities.
Maybe xenomorph is squishy in the alienS game and some (crappy or crossover) movies but not here. I think the real issue is that we have 2 different concepts in the franchise - the 'perfect organism' idea and 'cool-looking swarming dildohead monsters starship-trooper style'

[Dayve]

Escrito originalmente por Sasau Cat:

But shotgun or shrapnel from explosives really shouldn't kill it, only injure - and even then I believe it's supposed to have incredible regenerative abilities.
Maybe xenomorph is squishy in the alienS game and some (crappy or crossover) movies but not here. I think the real issue is that we have 2 different concepts in the franchise - the 'perfect organism' idea and 'cool-looking swarming dildohead monsters starship-trooper style'

Where is it written that the alien from the first movie was basically invincible to all weaponry? I thought the whole point of the movie was that they couldn't do anything about it because they didn't have any weapons with which to kill it.

I always thought that when Ash said they had no chance against it... it was because they were mice and the alien was a cat.

But if the mouse learned to use a shotgun... the cat is screwed.

[theo]

Lol I just realized - good to see you in A:I discussions

Well, we don't know what if they had weapons in the first movie, but it tells us that those alien things rekt huge space jockey ship, made them send warning signal into space (maybe they didn't have weapons either - what a coincidence - but considering how large that dead space jockey is he could rip xenomorphs apart with bare hands if they were just generic 'cats'), layed eggs that survived on cold lifeless planet with toxic atmosphere for who knows how many years, then they can regenerate and rebuild themselves, change their cell composition even, adapt to any environment, can generate some unknown superacid (they called it 'molecular acid' or something like that) that burns through almost the whole ship but is safe for their own body (how is bulletproof skin a problem with such abilities?), corporations wanted to use it as a weapon (what's the point if it's a huge 'cat' and nothing more)... also flamethrower didn't help much and we never see xenomorph truly killed or damaged - even when it's burned with fire from the engine it's thrown away instead of being disintegrated instantly in extreme temperatures. And that speech from Ash...
For me this seems enough to realize that the point of this movie is not 'if only we had a shotgun'

Also we don't know if aliens are biomechanical as someone stated in this thread, but we have some hints and they certainly look biomechanical and their appearance (and many other visual-artistic things in the movie) was designed by Hans Giger who was obsessed with biomechanical organisms, transhumanism ideas etc... how deeply he influenced the movie, who knows. And RIP Hans, but even today Ridley Scott certainly draws some of those ideas in his newest alien movies

[Dayve]

Escrito originalmente por Sasau Cat:

Lol I just realized - good to see you in A:I discussions

Well, we don't know what if they had weapons in the first movie, but it tells us that those alien things rekt huge space jockey ship, made them send warning signal into space (maybe they didn't have weapons either - what a coincidence - but considering how large that dead space jockey is he could rip xenomorphs apart with bare hands if they were just generic 'cats'), layed eggs that survived on cold lifeless planet with toxic atmosphere for who knows how many years, then they can regenerate and rebuild themselves, change their cell composition even, adapt to any environment, can generate some unknown superacid (they called it 'molecular acid' or something like that) that burns through almost the whole ship but is safe for their own body (how is bulletproof skin a problem with such abilities?), corporations wanted to use it as a weapon (what's the point if it's a huge 'cat' and nothing more)... also flamethrower didn't help much and we never see xenomorph truly killed or damaged - even when it's burned with fire from the engine it's thrown away instead of being disintegrated instantly in extreme temperatures. And that speech from Ash...
For me this seems enough to realize that the point of this movie is not 'if only we had a shotgun'

Also we don't know if aliens are biomechanical as someone stated in this thread, but we have some hints and they certainly look biomechanical and their appearance (and many other visual-artistic things in the movie) was designed by Hans Giger who was obsessed with biomechanical organisms, transhumanism ideas etc... how deeply he influenced the movie, who knows. And RIP Hans, but even today Ridley Scott certainly draws some of those ideas in his newest alien movies

Heh, howdy. Yeah I've been up in here for years. Completed this game like 5 times, gotta be one of my favourites of all time.

Anyway, I dunno. I just don't think I can buy them being almost invincible. The devs included all of these weapons for variety, of course, but kind of backed themselves into a corner. The alien very clearly bleeds if you shoot it with the pistol or shotgun, but the acid doesn't hurt you (I think, been a year since I played it) and it definitely doesn't burn through the ship. So these are just gameplay elements.

However, when you first see the alien in the cut scene, where Ripley hides under the desk and its tail goes around her legs, its skin looks and sounds metal - especially when it drags its tail along the floor. It sounds like someone dragging something metal along the floor.

I think it has extremely hard skin, like armour, but not invincible. So I remain unconvinced. I have to keep believing the Sevastopol weapons have reduced stopping power, or weird ammunition that can hurt humans but won't pierce the hull of the space station. And therefore it doesn't hurt the alien.

I mean... a pipe bomb will blow a hole through a solid brick wall. It has to do damage to the alien. So the fact that it doesn't has to be due to gameplay reasons (the alien has to be invincible for the game to work, otherwise we'd just kill it and get bored).

[Streuwinkel]

But in Soviet Russia, Alien is hunted by YOU! Why do you think the Alien runs away when it gets hit? It is hurt and needs to recover in the safety of the vents. If you just accumulate enough fire power - gas cans, Molotovs, pipe bombs, everything you can get your hands on - and concentrate it in one place and carefully set a trap, you just say "recover from that, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" before you ignite the gas with a blast from your shotgun and the Alien gets blown to bits.
Note that the developers didn't anticipate players to do that in a normal playthrough and so they didn't implement any gorgeous effects or a dying animation for the creature.

[theo]

Dunno, from videos it looks like the alien just glitched through textures lol

Escrito originalmente por Dayve:

Heh, howdy. Yeah I've been up in here for years. Completed this game like 5 times, gotta be one of my favourites of all time.

Indeed, amazing game... played it on release on my relative's account and now bought it on sale for myself and glad to come back

Escrito originalmente por Dayve:

Anyway, I dunno. I just don't think I can buy them being almost invincible. The devs included all of these weapons for variety, of course, but kind of backed themselves into a corner. The alien very clearly bleeds if you shoot it with the pistol or shotgun, but the acid doesn't hurt you (I think, been a year since I played it) and it definitely doesn't burn through the ship. So these are just gameplay elements.

However, when you first see the alien in the cut scene, where Ripley hides under the desk and its tail goes around her legs, its skin looks and sounds metal - especially when it drags its tail along the floor. It sounds like someone dragging something metal along the floor.

I think it has extremely hard skin, like armour, but not invincible. So I remain unconvinced. I have to keep believing the Sevastopol weapons have reduced stopping power, or weird ammunition that can hurt humans but won't pierce the hull of the space station. And therefore it doesn't hurt the alien.

I mean... a pipe bomb will blow a hole through a solid brick wall. It has to do damage to the alien. So the fact that it doesn't has to be due to gameplay reasons (the alien has to be invincible for the game to work, otherwise we'd just kill it and get bored).

I choose to believe its skin is some composite material and is actually harder than any metal, and that the alien is tough inside, too, and regenerate extremely quickly if damaged
We also have to consider that xenomorph is slightly different (even visually) in each movie and game, so really no point to compare it with anything, I think it's ok to use some unique 'rules' in the game (xenomorph's acid is not so acidic here - whatever). And for me invincible alien works fine making it true 'survival' experience where you can't rely on anything against this almost unstoppable thing. And I don't feel like weapons in the game have no point cause we have humans and androids as enemies, too

[NinthElement]

Escrito originalmente por Dead In Hollywood:

Trap an Alien behind the lockdown gates at the top of the stair case leading to the server room

I've done that trick a few times, it's pretty helpful to buy a few minutes of peace especially with the aggressive alien mod. I do hope one day if they do a remaster of this game, you would get some dialogue acknowledging you trapping the creature like -
Waits: OMG you trapped that thing Ripley
Ripley: Yeah, not sure how long that's gonna hold it though, what's the next step?

And a similar thing for if you achieve the monumental task of reducing the alien's hit points to zero, you would get an actual death animation and it could be gone for the rest of the time you're in the area, then reappear with an accompanying radio dialog that remarks there must be more than one (if pre-nest)

[Streuwinkel]

Escrito originalmente por 9thElement:

Escrito originalmente por Dead In Hollywood:

Trap an Alien behind the lockdown gates at the top of the stair case leading to the server room

I've done that trick a few times, it's pretty helpful to buy a few minutes of peace especially with the aggressive alien mod.

When I first saw that trick on YouTube I was dumbfounded for not seeing that opportunity myself. The game is very immersive, but at that point I realized I was just following the marker on the tracker, pushing E and repeating instead of using my wits as Amanda would have done. After all it is the only place in the game that grants you some virtual accomplishment outside of the scripted plot without exploiting A.I. bugs. :-)

[Max Headshot]

If Aliens wouldn't be almost invincible then they wouldn't be perfect organisms and a threat at all. It's necessary to define it that way for the sake of dramaturgy and myth-making. Nobody complains about gravity on space ships, sounds in vacuum, space travelling faster than light speed or whatever else. You have to accept those things for suspension of disbelief, otherwise a whole genre wouldn't exist.
And if these absurd physics and grotesque technology aspects are acceptable then another unrealistic biotechnological achievement should it be even more. But it's necessary to strictly follow the rules to be somehow believable (the last movies messed it totally up).
The whole thing is unrealistic and impossible on every side, it's only a question of personal preferences and probably entertainment culture.

[princess]

funny i hit one in the butt with the bolt gun lucky shot but it quickly went up a vent; why does everyone go to the movies which are fantastic yet different from the games mostly

[Salami Tsunami]

It's actually perfectly reasonable that the Alien would be unkillable using the weapons offered in the game. Not that it's invincible, by any stretch. My personal feelings on Prometheus aside, I do like the idea of the xenomorph being a genetically engineered killing machine. It explains a good deal about its anatomy and behavior.

Bear in mind that it has a hardened exoskeleton, which appears to have evolved/been designed to ward off kinetic impacts. Notice how curved the exterior is, offering very few places for a flat shot against its armor. More likely, a bullet will strike on a slope, drastically reducing the chance of successful penetration. Additionally, other than its mouth, it has virtually no points of vulnerability on its front face. No fragile eyes, no nose, no breaks in the exoskeleton.

The films have actually been very consistent in the strength and durability of the xenomorph (With a few exceptions.) Evidence would suggest that its exoskeleton's durability lies somewhere between soft shell Kevlar body armor and hardened composite body armor. Thus, a high velocity projectile like a rifle cartridge will penetrate the armor, while lower velocity projectiles like pistol shells and buckshot would not.

Essentially, killing a xenomorph with a modern firearm requires a different set of criteria than killing a person or an animal. Soft, unarmored targets would suffer more damage by result of a slower moving, heavy slug, than by a fast moving, light slug. The former will impart greater kinetic energy to the target, while the latter will likely pass clean through, causing little tissue damage. Additionally, when engaging soft targets, you benefit from the use of a softer metal for the projectile, or an enhanced post penetration effect such as a hollowpoint or a powder core round. Hard targets on the other hand, are the opposite. Shooting an armored target with a low velocity, heavy mass cartridge will likely not penetrate armor which could be defeated by a high velocity projectile of the same or less cumulative kinetic energy. For example, a .308 cartridge can penetrate a steel plate which would only be dented by a shotgun slug, even though the shotgun slug carries greater inertia.

Also bear in mind that if you are running a space station, you probably don't want any firearms around which could pierce any of the exterior windows and cause a hull breach. For that matter, you probably don't want any weapons floating around which can penetrate the body armor issued to your marshalls.

Let's go in sequence of the weapons in the game.

Revolver: Judging by the size of the cartridges, this pistol is in the .32-.38 caliber range. Cartridges of these size would not penetrate soft shell Kevlar, let alone the carapace of a genetically engineered terror weapon.

Shotgun: Same as the revolver. Buckshot just doesn't have penetration power. At most, it would be firing 000 shot, which would have slightly poorer armor penetration qualities than a .38 cartridge.

Flamethrower: Since this flamethrower is a gas powered weapon (basically an oversize propane torch), it can inflict no lasting damage. Napalm or WP would have been better choices, as they would cling to the xenomorph's armor even after it flees. As it is, the xeno stops taking damage as soon as it's not being fired on.

Bolt gun: If there was a weapon in game which would damage the xenomorph, this would be it. However, judging by the large gauge of the bolt and the cobbled together nature of the equipment, I would speculate that this is a relatively low velocity projectile. Essentially a shotgun slug, it carries a great deal of kinetic force, but not much in the way of penetration power. Additionally, the projectile itself appears to be brass or copper, likely not case hardened or even balanced.

Pipe bomb: Similarly to the bolt gun, quality control is everything. Since the explosive charge is improvised, it would be constructed either with commercial grade mining explosives, or with a homemade chemical charge. Both of these would have a low rate of expansion compared to military grade explosives. Additionally, although the fragmentation produced by a shattering pipe would be devestating against soft targets, the xenomorph is not a soft target. A modern hand grenade would likely seriously injure or kill it, because of the pre-scored frangible casing and fast expansion of the explosives. But a pipe bomb just wouldn't do the trick.

Molotov: Although a flammable liquid would actually be more effective than a gas powered flamethrower, it just doesn't have the stopping power.

Although with this all being said, I can't help but fault the Nostromo crew and the people in this game for their lack of creative insight and 'can do' attitude toward bug hunts. Particularly the Nostromo crew, who had the entire ship at their disposal with no additional threats (excluding a psychotic android). There are always solutions out there, and any organism, no matter how perfect, can be killed with some improvisation and a little bit of cunning.