This is the worst stealth game I have ever played.

[Zaxx]

There, I said it. It's insulting how little information the game gives you on how to do stealth effectively. I started the game on hard yet I can't pass the first ♥♥♥♥ing stealth section on 5 tries because I literally have to figure out all the ♥♥♥♥ing game mechanics myself. It's ridiculous, I don't like handholding in games but at least some minimalistic tutorial would have been cool in the boring as ♥♥♥♥ first hour of the game.

Oh, and the trial and error is strong in this one, for example if you go into the wrong vent it will be impossible to get out of it without detection. Terrible game design, especially when you combine it with the time waster save system.

Edit: Well it was fun reading the comments from people not noticing that the thread is 4 years old but I got bored of it after a few necros so... I finished the game years ago on the hardest difficulty and ended up loving it, it's just that the first "real" stealth section with the human NPCs rubbed me the wrong way.

[BROOD-SkorpioN]

Първоначално публикувано от clarkeveritas:

I got ruthlessly wrecked in this game for the first couple of hours after the alien showed up but eventually I figured stuff out. There was a part pretty early on where you have to find.... I believe it was a keycard... and it was WELL before you have any decent weapons. I must have died like 15 times trying to figure out how to outsmart the alien in some really narrow pathways. Eventually I did and I just beat the game like 10 minutes ago. There are some difficulty spikes but now that I have some experience I realize how I could have gotten past those earlier parts without as much headache. It's some luck but it's largely figuring out your tools and your enemies.

Yeah, mission 5 is notorious for frustrating people on the first try, but it's mainly due to unfamiliarity with the Alien. On a second playthrough though, it gets much easier. I'd say it's the easiest Alien mission in the game.

[Berserk Breton]

Първоначално публикувано от WellyCoaster:

This thread really?
What a pitiful rant

We get a lot of it, and it's kind of to be expected - because of the times we live in + this game being a work of integrity that is (even just a bit) unforgiving.

People are victims of coddling, we should encourage them to get off that path, and not judge them for it.

Besides which, some parts of the game don't let up on you - if OP is frustrated and needs to vent I don't blame her.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Първоначално публикувано от clarkeveritas:

I got ruthlessly wrecked in this game for the first couple of hours after the alien showed up but eventually I figured stuff out. There was a part pretty early on where you have to find.... I believe it was a keycard... and it was WELL before you have any decent weapons. I must have died like 15 times trying to figure out how to outsmart the alien in some really narrow pathways. Eventually I did and I just beat the game like 10 minutes ago. There are some difficulty spikes but now that I have some experience I realize how I could have gotten past those earlier parts without as much headache.

Protip: go back to those parts you're talking about and see how it won't be any easier beause the game says so.

Nah, I can saunter through medlabs now like I was going to the shops to buy a pint of milk.

Stick with it man, it's worth it.

[KenTWOu]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Oh, and the trial and error is strong in this one, for example if you go into the wrong vent it will be impossible to get out of it without detection. Terrible game design, especially when you combine it with the time waster save system.

On the contrary, that's not a terrible game design, because it's not a pure stealth game which must be finished without a single detection. This is a survival horror game, but with a strong focus on stealth. That's why hopeless, desperate situations where detection is unavoidable not only possible, but mandatory. You must be hunted down and killed, that's the point, otherwise there wouldn't be horror or tension.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

There, I said it. It's insulting how little information the game gives you on how to do stealth effectively...

Clear precise feedback (vision through walls, visible vision cones, detection arrows, exclamation marks over enemies heads; visible patrol paths etc...) like in most of the recent hand holding stealth-action games will ruin the game, will take away all the tension. That's why Alien: Isolation is much closer to classic stealth games like Thief 1,2,3, where you must learn everything yourself and sneak through the game based on enemies footsteps and other sound events = real feedback.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

For example one friend suggested that using the motion sensor a lot can lead you to being detected by the alien. I went into a room when the alien was nearby, hid under a bed, whipped out the motion sensor and kept it that way for like 5 minutes...

Because of the way save system works, we could only guess here, but his suggestion was 'using motion tracker a lot'. If you do it once it probably won't activate Alien's learning mechanism when he starts noticing your motion tracker beeps. Maybe he detects them less frequently on easiest difficulties. Maybe he detects them more often when on high alert.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Then I went out of the room after looking at the tracker and seeing nothing on it... after a while the xeno just started chargin at me from behind and I got killed (the motion sensor was put away at this point of course, it was after my little experiment).

Sometimes when enemies stand perfectly still (especially noticeable with Working Joes) they don't detected by the motion tracker. Looks like exactly that happens to you here. Although Alien stands perfectly still less frequently.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

hell, at one point I stepped on its tail, it did not give a single ♥♥♥♥ about it

It's very hard to simulate collisions with tiny objects as sophisticated as Alien's tail. Simulation like that is theoretically possible, but it will eat lots of CPU/GPU cycles, that's why game developers don't do such costly things. That's why Alien doesn't really feel anything when you're stepping on his tail. Instead developers added a tiny vision cone on the back of his head to make you feel like he notices when you're stepping on it. This clever trick works fine on higher difficulty levels, where Alien is way more sensitive.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Actually I did invest a certain amount of time into trying to "learn" the game. I experimented a lot, asked friends who already completed it on useful tactics and basically the conclusion was: the game is a random mess.

If you want to experiment with the game systems and learn the game, do this on Hard difficulty. On easiest difficulties the game simplifies lots of its systems, most of the stealth games work like that. And it's better to do it closer to the end of complete walkthrough or playing Survival mode, because of the way Alien learning mechanism works.

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

It's random BS, learning the mechanics and skill has nothing to do with it...

It's predictable enough to be skill-dependent stealth game. 'One Shot' walkthroughs prove that.

[-|Nur|-]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Първоначално публикувано от clarkeveritas:

I got ruthlessly wrecked in this game for the first couple of hours after the alien showed up but eventually I figured stuff out. There was a part pretty early on where you have to find.... I believe it was a keycard... and it was WELL before you have any decent weapons. I must have died like 15 times trying to figure out how to outsmart the alien in some really narrow pathways. Eventually I did and I just beat the game like 10 minutes ago. There are some difficulty spikes but now that I have some experience I realize how I could have gotten past those earlier parts without as much headache.

Protip: go back to those parts you're talking about and see how it won't be any easier beause the game says so.

Lol, I can replay the earlier segments on Nightmare any time without dying once (unless I screw something up). This pretty much disproves your theory that some RNG determines how often you die. But hey, whatever helps you get through the day!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580156127

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=590871535

[Inferno]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

There, I said it. It's insulting how little information the game gives you on how to do stealth effectively. I started the game on hard yet I can't pass the first ♥♥♥♥ing stealth section on 5 tries because I literally have to figure out all the ♥♥♥♥ing game mechanics myself.

The game mechanics are virtually just move, crouch, and avoid line of sight; there's not much to figure out.

It's ridiculous, I don't like handholding in games but at least some minimalistic tutorial would have been cool in the boring as ♥♥♥♥ first hour of the game.

The game gives you prompts on relevant actions that are available to you, if I recall. Being detected by an armed hostile or the Alien is bad for you; therefore, you use your actions to do things to either avoid detection, or remedy the situation. A tutorial is not needed to know that, only basic human cognition.

Oh, and the trial and error is strong in this one, for example if you go into the wrong vent it will be impossible to get out of it without detection. Terrible game design, especially when you combine it with the time waster save system.

Er.. the wrong vent? If someone sees you go into a vent, they're going to camp there for a while. You either have to go in there without being detected, or wait them out.
The save system is designed like almost every other device you can interact with, in that it usually isn't free. This was intentional, to reward good planning, and keep the tension alive.

[Snoopafeller]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

If you look at something like the first level of Mario you see how the game teaches the player all the mechanics simply by good level design that intuitively leads the player to use said mechanics. Alien Isolation throws that out the window and fools you into thinking this is good game design because according to some people the illusion of difficulty equals good while actually that's just a factor. Your game can appear as being hard and it can still be ♥♥♥♥, Isolation is the prime example.
Well guys, you've all been had, have fun in your lives knowing that you are idiots, this "baby gamer" will keep on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you happily in games like Unreal Tournament... you know, real videogames with real challenge and an actual skill ceiling. :D

Difficulty usually equals good , especially when we are talking about this particular genre of games. I understand somehow what your complaint is , but for most of us who love this game the rewarding feeling is actually boosted by the fact that every wrong step and noise is being taxed. My point is that just because you don't agree or like certain game mechanics you shouldn't mud a game but rather stick to what you know/love or try harder and not be a wuss about it.
The game is only frustrating if it detects poor-planning (based on noise 90% of the time,so it's not that complicated if you keep a cool head and are disciplined) , most of professionals agreed that the Alien's AI is pretty impressive not being so predictable , if you like patterns (which this game doesn't actually lack if you keep your 'ear to the ground' ) there are other games for that. The guys even ''bothered'' to make specific sounds to help you detect whether the Alien is up,down or on the same level.
After all this help it should be clear that CA wasn't aiming at uncalled-for-frustration for the player. Well , questions to you Zaxx , after all this help from the devs , if you keep ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around , repeating mistakes , shooting stuff and just smashing the maintenance jack out of boredom or curiosity in game , why shouldn't you be taxed ? Why should you be one of those completing this game on hard/nightmare mode ? Is it really that hard to accept this is not a shooter/running but rather a noise-sensible game ? You either have discipline and swallow all the tension when needed to or you don't , but then it's on you and not on the game, I think you should be aware of this.
You are also comparing a Mario level with a survival horror , in a way you are right , we've all been had.

[Zaxx]

Първоначално публикувано от Engineer:

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

If you look at something like the first level of Mario you see how the game teaches the player all the mechanics simply by good level design that intuitively leads the player to use said mechanics. Alien Isolation throws that out the window and fools you into thinking this is good game design because according to some people the illusion of difficulty equals good while actually that's just a factor. Your game can appear as being hard and it can still be ♥♥♥♥, Isolation is the prime example.
Well guys, you've all been had, have fun in your lives knowing that you are idiots, this "baby gamer" will keep on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you happily in games like Unreal Tournament... you know, real videogames with real challenge and an actual skill ceiling. :D

Difficulty usually equals good , especially when we are talking about this particular genre of games. I understand somehow what your complaint is , but for most of us who love this game the rewarding feeling is actually boosted by the fact that every wrong step and noise is being taxed. My point is that just because you don't agree or like certain game mechanics you shouldn't mud a game but rather stick to what you know/love or try harder and not be a wuss about it.
The game is only frustrating if it detects poor-planning (based on noise 90% of the time,so it's not that complicated if you keep a cool head and are disciplined) , most of professionals agreed that the Alien's AI is pretty impressive not being so predictable , if you like patterns (which this game doesn't actually lack if you keep your 'ear to the ground' ) there are other games for that. The guys even ''bothered'' to make specific sounds to help you detect whether the Alien is up,down or on the same level.
After all this help it should be clear that CA wasn't aiming at uncalled-for-frustration for the player. Well , questions to you Zaxx , after all this help from the devs , if you keep ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around , repeating mistakes , shooting stuff and just smashing the maintenance jack out of boredom or curiosity in game , why shouldn't you be taxed ? Why should you be one of those completing this game on hard/nightmare mode ? Is it really that hard to accept this is not a shooter/running but rather a noise-sensible game ? You either have discipline and swallow all the tension when needed to or you don't , but then it's on you and not on the game, I think you should be aware of this.
You are also comparing a Mario level with a survival horror , in a way you are right , we've all been had.

I think it all comes down to the fact that I value flow in a videogame very much and I like when the experience is not broken up by having to load a save.

Let's take XCOM for example: it takes dedication and a deep knowledge of the gameplay mechanics to finish that game on classic / impossible difficulty with the ironman feature turned on (ironman: there is no reload feature, if you lose the campaign that's it, you can start the whole thing from the beginning) but actually the feedback of your mistakes is not that punishing. If you're an idiot at the beginning of a campaign you'll lose a rookie or two, hell, if you're an idiot and your luck is out you might even lose a mission but the flow of the gameplay is never broken. You get punished but not with a game over screen, it's more about your bad decisions having repercussions you'll feel throughout the campaign and usually you end up losing if you've made too many mistakes... but it was still a whole experience and you've also learned a lot about the gameplay mechanics. As a result the game made you smarter, you will make better decisions and eventually you'll beat ironman... not because you're a tactical genius but because the game is constantly teaching you its mechanics by providing clear feedback to your decisions.

In Alien Isolation on the other hand you have more "layers" of feedback: you die usually in a way that makes it hard to learn what you did wrong so even learning from a mistake needs you to fail because of the same reason over and over again until you get it. To put it simply: the game is hard to decode because there is a lot more going on than the simple questions of "am I hidden or not?" or "am I silent enough?"

For example I managed to die in a really weird way today: I threw a noisemaker next to a few guards so that the alien would take care of them for me. That happened alright and then all of a sudden the alien found me and I died. My hiding place was perfect, I made no noise, there was no line of sight etc. so I just couldn't imagine what could have been the problem. And then it hit me: the tail. You see, I was under a desk when the alien passed me... it stopped at a narrow side of the desk, looked around a bit, turned around and after that it immediately found me... because the collision detection is a bit dodgy so the alien's tail could pass through the solid side of the desk and since I was under the desk the xeno detected me without me doing anything wrong whatsoever.

If there wasn't a comment explaining how the alien's tail works here in this very thread I would have never figured out why it found me and that's even worse than the fact that it was basically a "bug", a situation the developers did not polish during development.

And you know what, I can accept stuff like this, hell, on XCOM's ironman mode I had a full set of tactics for the bug when all the aliens on the map teleported next to your squad and I could handle it just fine when it happened but by that point I was a veteran player knowing all the tricks in the book, before that if I played regular classic without ironman I could just load my save from the beginning of a mission and I could forget that the bug even happened. AI however uses old school manual saving using save points so if something like what I described happens you lost 5-20 minutes of progress... and that's the unjust punishment, not the fact that the game killed you.

So to conclude this all:
A. You make mistakes.
B. The game punishes your mistakes by wasting your time because you lose minutes of progress.
C. You can't always learn from your mistakes because the reason for your death could be something hidden deep in the game's mechanics.
D. You will make the mistakes you couldn't learn from again and again until you happen to figure out the reason.
E. As a result the game will waste a lot of your time, the flow of the gameplay breaks and you get pulled ouf of the experience.
F. You died so many times that you're not scared of the xenomorph anymore... you ruined the game because the game ruined your experience.

So you know, maybe the guys who are telling me that the bad ♥♥♥♥ that's happening to me not being random are right... the point is however that I will still perceive it as being random because the game does a bad job at providing clear feedback to the player.

[Snoopafeller]

It's a game which also counts on your survival instincts in such a situation , so to speak , you either have the will to transpose in Amanda's skin (which is an average mechanic so you shouldn't expect much) or you don't . This game also teaches besides discipline, patience and how to study your surroundings carefully , something that our generation, generally lacks. I have nothing but respect for Sega and CA for delivering this jewel , especially after that Colonial Marines disapointment who didn't even manage to be an average shoot-em-up game . This is my last post here . Good luck to you Zaxx

LE: You don't even need to use the motion tracker to finish this game , in my case it did more harm than good .

[Aazo5]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Първоначално публикувано от BROOD-SkorpioN:

When the Alien hides in the vents, he does make a metallic breathing sound and even oozes saliva from the vent. All so that players would know it's there if they're paying attention. Your death was a result of reckless, impatient gameplay. You earned that death fair and square. It was not an "RNG says so" death.

Did not see anything like that, as I said there were no visual or audio indications. I don't rush through games, I always explore every nook and cranny and actually in that situation I thought that there are androids around so every step was careful... but then again it's easy to just assume something you don't know about instead of leaving your inner fanboy behind.

Anyway I don't rule out that it was just a bug because I saw some really weird glitches.

That's a horrible argument. You can't just say "I didn't see the visual queue, therefore it doesn't exist".

There IS a visual queue when the alien is in the vents above you. You will see saliva dripping from the vent that anyone paying attention would be able to see. If you had your motion tracker out, you'd also see him on there. If you're too careless and lazy to check for those things, then just walk around every vent for now on. Problem solved.

[Zaxx]

On a side note the other thing that's bothering me is the very clear dissonance between the alien you see here and what's in the movies.

It's clear that CA's intention was to simulate a living, somewhat unpredictable organism and all I can is applaud them for trying such a thing but seems like they failed either because they felt the need to keep the player under constant pressure or simply because they don't understand Alien. The fact that on hard difficulty the xeno is constantly on me is a load of ♥♥♥♥ because that's not how the creature would behave on a space station full of people. The xenomorph is a hunter but it does not choose its prey, it simply catches everyone it can get its hands on.

Basically what I'm saying is that if Amanda is keeping a low profile then the creature should leave her alone and just hunt on the entirety of Sevastopol instead of trying to catch her and only her. The fact that you can go into a room full of guards casually patrolling and talking to each other and you still have to throw a noisemaker, start a shootout or make some noise some other way for the xeno to appear is ridiculous. Those guys should be dead meat the minute you hear the creature crawling in the vents yet they are just there... walking... talking... loudly.

It is clear that the alien is on you simply because you are the player while in the reality of the Alien lore you should be able to complete the game by only meeting the creature when your paths cross if you're keeping a low profile. Newt would have never survived if the xeno from Isolation is on LV-426.

[Zaxx]

Първоначално публикувано от aazo5:

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Did not see anything like that, as I said there were no visual or audio indications. I don't rush through games, I always explore every nook and cranny and actually in that situation I thought that there are androids around so every step was careful... but then again it's easy to just assume something you don't know about instead of leaving your inner fanboy behind.

Anyway I don't rule out that it was just a bug because I saw some really weird glitches.

That's a horrible argument. You can't just say "I didn't see the visual queue, therefore it doesn't exist".

There IS a visual queue when the alien is in the vents above you. You will see saliva dripping from the vent that anyone paying attention would be able to see. If you had your motion tracker out, you'd also see him on there. If you're too careless and lazy to check for those things, then just walk around every vent for now on. Problem solved.

Since that comment I had time to look at the signs at the vents thoroughly and I think I know why I managed to die that way if it wasn't a bug. You see, that part with the alien starts very quickly after you've only managed to escape from a few androids: it basically starts right after you exit a door and the vent is instantly there. When the alien is in a vent you get the signs what you're talking about but the point is that you don't get all of them instantly. First there is only some black "smoke" kind of thing at the bottom of the vent, then saliva starts dripping and during or after that you hear the creature hissing. It takes only 1 or 2 seconds for all the signs to materialize but if the vent is exactly next to the point where alien encounter - and with that the animation at the vent - starts then you can get killed by not knowing that the creature is in there.

[Big"Dick"Cheney]

lol i mean i think the games awsome it sold well and if you take your time and dont blindly run around then your probably gonna have more success as far as not seeing the saliva coming from the vent or not hearing it on your motion tracker i dont know what to say man. it works for everybody else just fine. but ya man if you dont like it dont play it. i dont care if you hate it or not and im still gonna play it.

[Big"Dick"Cheney]

not everyones gonna like the same ♥♥♥♥ so i get it.thats your opinion and your more than well entitled to have one. its just weird that you would write such a lengthly blog about how its the worst game ect. if i dont like a game i just dont play it.

[Inferno]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Since that comment I had time to look at the signs at the vents thoroughly and I think I know why I managed to die that way if it wasn't a bug. You see, that part with the alien starts very quickly after you've only managed to escape from a few androids: it basically starts right after you exit a door and the vent is instantly there. When the alien is in a vent you get the signs what you're talking about but the point is that you don't get all of them instantly. First there is only some black "smoke" kind of thing at the bottom of the vent, then saliva starts dripping and during or after that you hear the creature hissing. It takes only 1 or 2 seconds for all the signs to materialize but if the vent is exactly next to the point where alien encounter - and with that the animation at the vent - starts then you can get killed by not knowing that the creature is in there.

There are odd moments of the AI "cheating," or something weird happening - the game is not perfect. Anyone who denies that either never experienced any BS moments, or is being a fanboy. I think I remember one occasion where the Alien seemed to be in two places at once. However, the game is well-made to the point that these can be circumvented or happen rarely (or not at all, I've never had any problem with the ceiling vent mechanic not loading quickly myself).

The reason we usually scoff at threads such as these is that most of us who post, have already cleared the game multiple times, and have finished Nightmare difficulty; so it's hard for us to understand why someone can have such difficulty with the game's mechanics and premise, to the point where their gameplay experience differs so greatly from ours.
"Get gud," is not the most productive thing to say, but it's kind of the sentiment here; because as someone who has finished the game and had no major gameplay issues, I can't really relate to your problems with it at all.

[Berserk Breton]

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Първоначално публикувано от BROOD-SkorpioN:

When the Alien hides in the vents, he does make a metallic breathing sound and even oozes saliva from the vent. All so that players would know it's there if they're paying attention. Your death was a result of reckless, impatient gameplay. You earned that death fair and square. It was not an "RNG says so" death.

Did not see anything like that, as I said there were no visual or audio indications. I don't rush through games, I always explore every nook and cranny and actually in that situation I thought that there are androids around so every step was careful... but then again it's easy to just assume something you don't know about instead of leaving your inner fanboy behind.

^ This, along with this:

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

Actually I did invest a certain amount of time into trying to "learn" the game. I experimented a lot, asked friends who already completed it on useful tactics and basically the conclusion was: the game is a random mess.

and to some extent this

Първоначално публикувано от Zaxx:

The xenomorph is a hunter but it does not choose its prey, it simply catches everyone it can get its hands on.

Makes me suspect you are not investing as much time learning the game as you think you are, or at least as you say you are, and that you may not really be paying attention properly to the games, as you have not to the films.



There are enough cues to learn how to play the game - all of the rest of us have experienced this - they are there for all to see. There is some small margin for unpredicted problems, which helps create investment and atmosphere, but it is more flavouring than something that dominates the game. You say your complaint is not one of hand-holding, then almost everything you say boils down you not understanding why stuff is happening in ways that would make more sense if you paid attention.

If this is so, ok, not going to call you names for it. The game puts you under pressure on purpose and it would be no surprise if that made it harder to concentrate for some people, and then there are people with different attention spans. Honestly to say this game has terrible design is a bit bizarre.

Good luck, when you get to the end you may look on it differently.