just boycott this scam *ftc link below*

[LordoftheRobe]

So last time i said this people misdirected that actual point of why you shouldn't spend money on the game.

which is the broken shuffler, I honestly believe they just did a stack shuffling algorithm (which stack shufflin isn't really legal) which is why lands are lumped 2-6 together 80% of the time and why you'll get multiples of one card within 10 cards of each other.

stop spending money and tell mtg arena to fix this bait and switch tactic shuffler which isn't random in the slightest.

which is funny because in the premium drafts you do not have this shuffling algorithm that makes sure you have lands in hand. it's actually a real random shuffler which has far less mana screwed games.

just stop paying if you're a new player. honestly id recommenced just stop all together if you just started because this isn't a game but an actual scam promoting they have a "random algorithm" but is only reserved for premium drafts.

you "paupers" get the stack shuffler which is why you get mana flooded.

edit* at this point there is evidence that so many asked for that the hand smoothing just purposely makes you lose and is indeed broken im going to post the federal trade commission link so people can report mtg arena for bait and switching and false advertisement as they promote the shuffler is indeed random. So just report them and after enough reports the ftc have to investigate.

https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/assistant

[Malvastor]

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

terrible way when mtg arena's most income is from gems to buy drafts.....

so your saying them manipulating the mana base in said format to increase gem sales is a stupid idea?

Yes.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

how? please elaborate instead of saying "derp dats stoopid"

I already did, in that post you didn't read.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

or please keep showing your baised opinion with 0 facts or logic to back up anything you say.

Now there's a pot-kettle situation if ever I saw one.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

btw you gonna watch all 2 hours of this gameplay ill be posting?

Ask me again when you've actually posted it.

[GarbageCollector]

Where's your video homie?

[GarbageCollector]

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

1) im uploading the video of the 2 hour one as i need to download a video editor to compile the rest of the videos together.

"I need to cherry pick the evidence that only supports my own argument so that involves a LOT of cutting and splicing."

[Slickmund]

I've got no axe to grind, don't find myself entrenched in a single camp of the debate that's going on, but I did find it interesting enough to read all 8 page's of posts.
Now there's 2 people in this debate I'd prefer not to engage with because they lack integrity, communicating in extremely poor faith, one of them I therefore reported multiple times and have blocked pre-emptively, think we all know whom I speak of.
Malvastor, which I will address by name because I have a sliver of faith in terms of redeemability; You are a pasta-thought-type, meaning, you don't know where your thoughts begin and end, feeling based. You read a monologue but do not perceive it, you're going through the motion, extract your feeling based off of it and then work from there.
It is detrimental to real conversation, even more so to debates or discussions.
I do not personally hate you over this, but it is unbecoming and will make the enviroment feel like a wall, a sentiment you very much reek off.

Moving past my grudges, stepping over the Joe Schmucks getting their daily "W post of the day" in and overall grumpyness to brighter thoughts; I see a decent amount of you having a honest discussion about the mechanics at play in MTGa, and recognize the (most likely similar in age) dime a dozen of you's that appreciate game'ss overall fairness as it is vital to a game's longevity. WoTC has never been a bastion of that, in it's younger years as well as after the Hasbro take-over. Anyone that played Magic before 2010 and plays it enough to date, knows that, it's a rigged game; But still interesting.

We can talk about why they design the way they do, doing a business 101 on CCG monetization but those of you worthy of engagement are well aware, those lesser so, would not be compelled to consideration either way: I.E. the "I'm sure you can build a counter to it" player that mistakes acknowledgement of fact for accusation of their wrongdoing. Needless to address outside of acknowledging the existence, we've all met them, a waste of breath.

I think the shuffle conversation needs to be compartmentalized, clearly more than 1 thing can be at play here which I will raise in the form of two questions that I would like to give my PoV on thereafter, which I will do based on engagement. Followed by one relevance of context question in relation to the digitized CCG industry. Now before you say it as if there's a smoking gun worth calling me out on: Yes the questions are loaded, I am interviewing my own viewpoint in a format I would use on any WoTC represenative. Impartiality is not a part of business ethics therefore I shall not be beheld to an irrelevant standard as grounds for dismissal.
Feel free to answer these questions (that are loaded with my perception) and I will be happy to engage in further thought or discussion with you, with the exception of the one that shan't be named.

Does MTGA implement true randomness, if not, what is their alternative to it given that they hold to the standard of true randomness made practical on their tournaments, is the same standard being upheld in MTGA?

Granted you are paying in order to play for rewards, comparable to a buy-in and min. bet at a poker table, would MTGA have incentive to intervene or rig paid play against the player?

Lastly, and to be considered optional (Question within a question, so bonus points are on the table).

What is the industry standard that MTGA, or WoTC digital products would be going up against, which practises are common, which practises are deemed profitable and in relation to both, what is considered the morally acceptable standard?

[GarbageCollector]

Originally posted by Slickmund:

I think the shuffle conversation needs to be compartmentalized

It really doesn't. None of the questions you are asking matter beyond the first one:

Originally posted by Slickmund:

Does MTGA implement true randomness, if not, what is their alternative to it given that they hold to the standard of true randomness made practical on their tournaments, is the same standard being upheld in MTGA?

Because until anyone can show any amount of reasonable evidence it's rigged, questions about why they rig it don't make any sense. It's like asking if someone killed their parents to accelerate receiving the inheritance... when their parents are still alive.

We're currently anxiously waiting (for like a week) for a multihour expose video that has been said will blow this case wide open. Until anyone has seen that and until it contradicts the simplest explanation of believing what our eyes and the math are telling us, asking about motives or going into prior reputations doesn't matter.

[Winter Wolf]

When we are discussing this we should keep in mind this topic is far far older than the MTGA client. In fact, 15 years of discussion existed at one point on the WOTC forums before they were dismantled (around 2015 or so) in an attempt (deliberate or not -- it is unclear) to kill any semblance of community at the time. One of the longest threads on those forums was one about how 'the Shuffler of MTGO is rigged'. And a huge amount of arguments like the ones in this measly little 8 page thread boiled down to a) the shuffler is rigged b) no its not. c) yes it is. d) prove it. e) here is some anecdotal evidence x lots, f) that is not sufficient evidence g) here is mathematical proof that it is not rigged and so on for too many pages to rationally read through in a life time.

[Jubejubes]

no one cares about your dumb conspiracy theory.
build a proper deck and stop whining.

MOre than 35 unique cards = WRONG
MOre than 60 cards (or 80 if running lots of scry and draw/loot or Yorion control)= NO
LEss than 1/3 of your deck lands = NO (exceptions again to decks with a lot of scrys /draw ..a lot means basically every card scrys , draws and loots, not that you have 1 spell to draw you 2 cards)
Balanced mana curve (with key cards having more than 1 (4 copies for the most important cards, 3 for the rest, 2 for high cost important cards you know you can draw into consistently) = YES balanced means .that all your cards don't cost only 1 value.
No more than 1 win condition = YES a secondary win condition is often useless if it takes more than one card to pull off. An acceptable secondary win condition for a loot deck is Quesar who causes your opponent to lose 1 life everytime you draw a card, because you are already drawing your whole deck with rafeine when attacking with all your tokens on board and thus winning.
All cards synergize towards this win condition = YES Does your deck require the card? NO? then don't play it.
is your deck competitive in the meta - as in, does it actually do anything to fight effectively against current strategies? Does it lose every single game it plays? Does it have at least a 65% win rate?NO? then build a new one and move on.

[GarbageCollector]

Honestly, it's probably a discussion as old as even paper cards. A few millennia, likely.

Idk why I'm bothering, because you're right, nothing new is being presented, it's just the same people who don't understand what's happening that keep reiterating their conclusions without any reasons. Those kinds of minds cannot be changed (and are not likely to change any observer's, either).

Gonna step back, especially since it seems at least one person here is just trying to needle people and bait them into flying off the handle to get them banned for fun. Downright hilarious that that is what gets someone banned around here though, not 8 pages of insults and lies.

Thanks for that reality check Winter Wolf. Someone wake me up when the video gets posted though. That part I actually do want to see.

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

terrible way when mtg arena's most income is from gems to buy drafts.....

so your saying them manipulating the mana base in said format to increase gem sales is a stupid idea?

Yes.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

how? please elaborate instead of saying "derp dats stoopid"

I already did, in that post you didn't read.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

or please keep showing your baised opinion with 0 facts or logic to back up anything you say.

Now there's a pot-kettle situation if ever I saw one.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

btw you gonna watch all 2 hours of this gameplay ill be posting?

Ask me again when you've actually posted it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySGDVDBVFt4

So you gonna watch it or just full of shill?

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by GarbageCollector:

Honestly, it's probably a discussion as old as even paper cards. A few millennia, likely.

Idk why I'm bothering, because you're right, nothing new is being presented, it's just the same people who don't understand what's happening that keep reiterating their conclusions without any reasons. Those kinds of minds cannot be changed (and are not likely to change any observer's, either).

Gonna step back, especially since it seems at least one person here is just trying to needle people and bait them into flying off the handle to get them banned for fun. Downright hilarious that that is what gets someone banned around here though, not 8 pages of insults and lies.

Thanks for that reality check Winter Wolf. Someone wake me up when the video gets posted though. That part I actually do want to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySGDVDBVFt4

you gonna watch it?

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by GarbageCollector:

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

1) im uploading the video of the 2 hour one as i need to download a video editor to compile the rest of the videos together.

"I need to cherry pick the evidence that only supports my own argument so that involves a LOT of cutting and splicing."

no, the videos are when i play and the recordings are per session thus making it multiple saved videos.

you done looking foolish throwing a tantrum cause you can't build a deck with what you got?

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by Malvastor:

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

terrible way when mtg arena's most income is from gems to buy drafts.....

so your saying them manipulating the mana base in said format to increase gem sales is a stupid idea?

Yes.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

how? please elaborate instead of saying "derp dats stoopid"

I already did, in that post you didn't read.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

or please keep showing your baised opinion with 0 facts or logic to back up anything you say.

Now there's a pot-kettle situation if ever I saw one.

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

btw you gonna watch all 2 hours of this gameplay ill be posting?

Ask me again when you've actually posted it.

man this aged horribly.

also its not hard to see this is a massive issue with mana screw online. you just prefer to live in your bubble of ignorance.

i mean look you don't even think they wouldn't mess with drafts draws to encourage more gem sales, nor do you even post why you think so and just say "urh its in another post but gimmie ur faxs wah i want tings my wah cuz i lil entitle child"

so again post your facts since i posted my video. or just keep being a troll shill screaming and throwing a tantrum someone attacked your identity through a game.

learn to mature already.

[GarbageCollector]

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

Originally posted by GarbageCollector:

"I need to cherry pick the evidence that only supports my own argument so that involves a LOT of cutting and splicing."

no, the videos are when i play and the recordings are per session thus making it multiple saved videos.

you done looking foolish throwing a tantrum cause you can't build a deck with what you got?

Your insults don't even make sense so they don't sting.

I'm ten minutes in and just see a completely normal game with few lands drawn, as expected when you're only running 14 (Edit: 13, sorry didn't see the last one taken out right before starting)? Where's the slam dunk part of the video? I want to watch the highlights first.

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by Winter Wolf:

When we are discussing this we should keep in mind this topic is far far older than the MTGA client. In fact, 15 years of discussion existed at one point on the WOTC forums before they were dismantled (around 2015 or so) in an attempt (deliberate or not -- it is unclear) to kill any semblance of community at the time. One of the longest threads on those forums was one about how 'the Shuffler of MTGO is rigged'. And a huge amount of arguments like the ones in this measly little 8 page thread boiled down to a) the shuffler is rigged b) no its not. c) yes it is. d) prove it. e) here is some anecdotal evidence x lots, f) that is not sufficient evidence g) here is mathematical proof that it is not rigged and so on for too many pages to rationally read through in a life time.

no the shuffler is rigged in hand smoothing formats. You just don't want to see it when literally the patterns are in your face.

are you one of those people who cried because they couldn't beat a souls game cause they couldn't see the patterns of boss attacks?

do you get scammed because you don't see the patterns of a con man?

cmon at some point you need to stop being ignorant

[LordoftheRobe]

Originally posted by GarbageCollector:

Originally posted by sirsnoozel:

no, the videos are when i play and the recordings are per session thus making it multiple saved videos.

you done looking foolish throwing a tantrum cause you can't build a deck with what you got?

Your insults don't even make sense so they don't sting.

I'm ten minutes in and just see a completely normal game with few lands drawn, as expected when you're only running 14 (Edit: 13, sorry didn't see the last one taken out right before starting)? Where's the slam dunk part of the video? I want to watch the highlights first.

no no no watch the whole 2 hours. you asked for it so watch it. majority of games doesn't mean every game now.

if that was the case even the most ignorant fans would see through the smoke and mirrors