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Brevity is the soul of wit and you have none.
Alright, i did not know that. Thanks for the information! Still better/stronger than Vigilante straight up suiciding the following night. And the execute goes through defense, unlike Vigilante. Unless that was also changed.
Greed destroyed tos and it is sad because it was fun.
Well, name a good and serious politician who is brief. I'm sorry i'm not like other kids who isnt like "nah u r wrong lol" without giving any reason. At least i'm making a serious effort at explaing my point. IDC if you think i write a lot. That's not the point of this discussion or the argument. Either you make an effort to read, or you leave me alone and stay in ignorance. (another known saying for you: knowledge is power).
In all honesty, i didn't know your ban length (or even if it was made public anywhere, which i doubt since it's private info). I just assumed just being a but spammy wasn't worth a perma ban. For me, IF you didn't got tons of reports before, the ban should have been like 1 day to 1 week. Perma ban would require very grave events.
Between those 2 kind of games, there are different teams, different end goals, different gameplay, and different things that affect gameplay
In overwatch 2:
- it's 5 v 5 with no (or little) restrictions on heroes choices. In theory, both teams can have the same heroes team. Note the players choose the heroes themselves here. Particular case for overwatch: players can also change heroes mid-game (not possible in other games, like LoL)
- each hero have some heroes they are good against, and some they are bad against. (technical term being "counter-picking"). There is no "perfect" hero who dominate nearly all other heroes everytime consistantly. Everyone will have their chance to do something good
- there is 2 type of goals: "identical" goals (ex: capture the point) and "rotating opposite goals" (attack vs defend a payload. This goal rotate between teams: a team that defend round 1 will attack round 2, so both team will do the same work)
- rounds are played in real time, continuous. Every second, there are several actions that is happening, non-stop. Most of those actions are based on player's reactions (ex: if enemy Dva activate her ultimate bomb, most allied Winston (or other tanks) will attmpt to block the explosion. )
- pretty much every abilities are based on DPS maths. An important of balances changes are something like "changing number of ammo", "changing dmg / ammo", "changing shield HP", ... which are numerical balances. There are few changes that make the gameplay different (ex: interaction of invisible sombra with a payload, back in OW1). While luck sometimes happen (ex: right place at right time), most of the time, actual skill prevail.
In TOS2:
- there is 2 main teams. An un-informed majority (town), and an informed minority (coven). Then, there could be some neutral roles. For everyone (town, coven, neutrals), their roles is chosen randomly, depending of the rolelist. Because of the random element, one team might have a better advantage from the very start (ex: town having lot of Tpow + TP, or coven having witch + PM + rit, ...)
- every roles have their main purpose (invest / trickster tries to find killer roles, and will be actively useless against anything else) Some purposes are more important than others (ex: jailor vs spy's usefullness), so certain roles will feel more usefull on average. It's fairly common for town to win while having a spy who didn't find anything usefull the entire game. Ability-wise for the spy, he is basically here just for voting with town. Of course, social analysis and scum-reading are always availible to anyone, even to the spy (which might be easier, since fewer information from his main active ability to keep track)
- the end goal depends of the team + actual role composition, usually eliminating the other factions + killers. However, everyone should be aware of the current game situation. Ex for town: is it more beneficial to lynch a coven (to have lower coven numbers), or to lynch a NK (especially in all any, if there is several NK). And then there is the surprise NA which usually change priorities (up to coven + NK revealing themselves)
- (*) games are divided with a day / night cycle (which i abusively call "turns"). In practice, each phases is time-limited for reflexion. The end of each phase is marked with a different phase (ex: from day discussion to day voting), with sometimes an ability (end of night abilities). With some exceptions (day abilities), there is no instant reaction, only pre-determined conclusions based on everyone's choices (a BG go to player A, not because he *knows" player A will get attacked, but IN CASE player A get attacked). During the night, those decisions are made based on the information evidence, social analysis, scumreading, situation awareness, and even luck.
- there is very few maths involved here, compared to the rest of the gameplay. Most "balance" changes are changing the rolelist, or changing specific mechanics (ex: the very short doomsayer change). Again, TOS2 is a game that is reliant on luck, no matter how we change the game. Even a very skilled jailor can get screwed by bad luck.
My point is: different games need different balance types. Not every balance changes will be good.
See (*) above. Some precisions:
- let's say there is a deputy and a conjurer in the game. It's whoever acvitate their ability FIRST that happen first. If deputy shoot conjurer first, the conjurer will NOT be able to use their ability (because deputy got the first "turn". And this isn't an action FPS where the conjurer can dodge the bullet).
- the "turn-based" part refers mostly to night abilities. During the day phase / turn, player share their new information, deductions, theories, and also actions of the day (do we vfa? do we force prosecutor to pros someone? do we 1f1?) THEN come night phase / turn. For town and most neutral roles, they are completely alone to decide what to do at the end of the night. It's up to them (and them alone) and their analysis of all the data. Ex for a TP: do they stay on the d1 tpow claim but being passive? Or will he prioritise a more active TI? For coven and NA, they can talk privately to coordinate their night actions. In any case, everyone will act at the same time at the end of the night phase, with no possible way to change their decision if something goes wrong. After everyone "validated" their night action, the game follow their roles priorities (ex: TP act before killers, like a turn-based system for roles).
- each game have a set sequence of phases. For each phases, players can do certain actions, and not others (ex: vigilante can't shoot dduring the day, town can't lynch someone during night). So players aren't free to do every actions they can. For a specific action, they need to wait for the right time, for their "turn" to act.
In games like OW2, CS, Dota 2, ... , the core of the gameplay is moving and attacking. Communication is only a way to coordinate specific actions at specific times.
In TOS2, the gameplay is based on the communication. You not only have to learn to communicate, but you also have to learn to analyse these communications (what is true? What is false? What feels with your team? What feels against your team? ... )
As for the issue with the "power disparity", i already explained the luck reliance of TOS2 above.
Just to be clear:
- you didn't know how jailor work in TOS2 (although to your defence, it wasn't smart for both of us to mix TO1 and TOS2 in the discussion, which can easily lead to confusion)
- you don't seem to be aware of roles priorities at the end of the night (which was also the case in TOS1)
- you are seeing all team-based games as the same thing. Just because 2 games (like OW and TOS2) have similarities, it doesn't mean they are identical. The gameplay difference and different amount of luck make it obvious they are very different, will require different skills, will require different balance.
- you don't seem to realise that in terms of active abilities, TOS2 is mostly turn-based (or time-based i guess), to the point you think TOS2 gameplay and OW gameplay are similar because they both have abilities that can be used "at the same time".
If you think i have a "lack of the game's very basic", i wonder where you are placed then. But i guess your own ego wont let you honestly answer.
Everything You wrote about difference between TOS and OW makes no attempt or at least sense as to show that my argument does not hold, or logic is false. In fact, many of the arguments You presented only show why its more forgiving to have power disparity in TOS than in for example OW. You speak of pre-determined roles/picks in OW while it is random in TOS. Because i can choose my role in OW, it is more important that power disparity is equalized. If tank is more impactful lthan DPS like it was in OW, people will play DPS less, and go triple tank like the famous GOATS lineups. If You force role queue, it still causes a lot of problems with climbing, queue times and/or match quality, playerbase straight up quitting because their role is too weak, etc. In TOS, since roles are assigned randomly, at times i will have the better role, and at times i will have the worse role. So role power disparity equalizes on the long run. As some people say, "You win some, You lose some".
What is not fine is incompetence of staffs. i am not going to copy-paste why the ban system is flawed, why my ban was unjustified, etc. You can read all about it on my Steam Review of TOS and that Forum post You linked.
Theoretically, incompetence of staff does not limit to moderators or game balancers. Stuff like server stability is also important. TOS' servers did pretty well in my opinion. But an example of OW, since new year, i only played 2 games because right now there is a gamebreaking bug where if someone leaves, the system may not look for new players to fill the team up. So You end up playing 4vs5 or 5vs4 for the rest of the game. i ended up playing 3vs5 and 5vs3 in both games since new year, and that was not fun. Especially with their new system where if You leave X amount of games in the last 20 matches, You get temporary bans. So i've been avoiding OW.
TOS is simply not turn based. You can talk about specific mechanics like deputy vs conjurer and narrow it down to who clicks on the opponent first. But that is the same in OW and especially CS; Whoever clicks on the head of the other first wins. (This is actually a very known statement in higher competitive levels of many FPS games.) So in that regard, FPS games are also turn based by Your definition. Theoretically, You can define anything anyway You want it, but i don't see the usefulness of such a definition.
A lot of the other things are also wrong. Balancing numbers in OW is one way to do it. But You can also add/remove utility, add more RNG to spread of weapons, etc. Numbers can also be balanced in TOS: How many executes does a Jailor have? How many votes does a Mayor's vote count for? How many players can an Investigator check at once during one night? Could be upped to 2 or more. It could be half, for example every odd-night. Even Attack Power and Defense Power can be visualized as mere numbers. Basic Attack (Vigilante) can be seen as 1, Powerful Attack (Werewolf) as 2, Unstoppable Attack (Jester) as 3, etc. And No Defense as 0, Basic Defense 1, etc. And the formula to calculate if someone dies by an action is simple: If Attack Power is higher than Defense Power, the player dies. These numbers can also be changed, much like a DPS-chart in OW or other FPS games. So if Vigilante gets an Attack Power of 2, i.e Powerful Attack, it can now kill Werewolf, while it previously couldn't.
Reporting this as bait. Imaging comparing this to an FPS, its not hard to see why you were banned since this you seems to lack the comprehension and understanding of a simple social deduction game.
For someone who complained that another poster ”Who managed to write alot but said nothing”. You took the cake.
Maybe this community isn’t for you and you should go and play OW2 or anything else that doesn’t require using logic or game sense to play a game.
I appreciate how passionate you are.
I only wish you were as correct as you were invested in your rhetoric.
You couldn't even grasp why nerfing a role mid-season was irrelevant.
The roles are RANDOM; Nerfing X role doesn't hurt anyone's stats.
This is just one example of a multitude of logical failings on your part.
This is why democracy doesn't work.
You have millions of people who think they're smart, get PhDs and credentials, and yet score low on IQ tests and cannot grasp fundamentals.
There's a reason your posts are so gross and pointless. You write paragraphs, but say nothing of worth. Hence why people keep their replies toward you concise and with low effort; you attack people who disagree with you and yet put yourself on a pedestal about how 'smart' and 'logical' you are.
You're the epitome of why I stopped posting here.
The reason I completely stopped playing TOS1 is because Coven Ranked Practice became a ghost town. I had no idea All Any was an active game mode until quite some time later. The game mode just seemed like a dumb gimmick to me. I have no idea why it's appealing to anyone.
The reason I never thought I'd be in this situation with TOS2 is because I still never had any trouble getting a Mafia Ranked Practice game going in TOS1, presumably because that game mode was free-to-play. I figured since the base game of TOS2 was coven anyway, I wouldn't have this problem.