Mod suffixes - understanding the endgame and build diversity

[Cathach]

A lot of discussions about the lack of endgame, about how worthless some endgame rewards are and also discussions about the power of various builds are based on the lack of knowledge about mods, mod suffixes and the additional bonus stats the suffixes add to the modifier pool. Many weapons or armour effects are balanced around having specific bonus stats from specific mod suffixes, and therefore it is important to understand that system.

So how do mods work?
Each legendary mod has its main bonus, which is always the same, without any randomness. The reason why that is not random probably is, that the developers want it to be quite easy to build a basic version of your build, that is generally functional, but not at its full power. That way you can have fun with a generally working build, but still have a lot of potential for improvement over time.

On top of that main bonus, each legendary mod has 4 additional bonus stats, but these are random. They are randomly choosen from a pool of bonus stats. The base pool of those bonus stats is the same for all mods:
Weapon/status damage, damage to normal/elite/great ones, damage reduction from weapon/status/weakspot damage, reload speed, mag size, HP bonus

The magnitude of the bonus depends on the rarity level of the bonus stat. More difficult content generally drops mods with a higher rarity level of those bonus stats.

That point is where the knowledge ends for most players. But it also is where the interesting part begins.

Each mod can have a suffix. There are 3 general suffixes that all mods can have - violent (crit related), precision (weakspot related) and talents (elemental related) - and a large amount of build specific suffixes which can only be on mods related to that build, like shrapnel, burn, fortress warfare etc.
Those suffixed do two things:
1. The first of the 4 additional stats of the mod is always filled by a fixed modifier related to the suffix, like crit damage, weakspot damage, shrapnel damage, burn damage etc. (To my current knowledge it is always the same one. Not 100% sure if it is fixed or can be different, but it is always from the suffix mod pool)
2. There are additional possible bonus stats added to the pool of possible bonus stats for the other 3 bonus stat slots. So you can still get bonus stats from the base pool in the other three slots, but they can also be from the suffix bonus stat pool. And those additional bonus stats contain some of the most powerful boni in the game.

As an example, lets take the burn suffix. One of the bonus stats of the burn suffix is up to +6% burn trigger chance. Have you ever wondered why the burn chance of the Boom Boom is this crude 18%, and not something round like 20%? The reason is that you can have two pieces of equipment with the burn suffix, for a total of +12 additional burn chance, which brings the burn chance of the Boom Boom to 30%. And this 30% is the value that the weapon is balanced around. That is why a lot of discussions about the power of various builds is completely meaningless, because most players don't see the potential of most builds yet. A Boom Boom with the Hardy Gloves can trigger the explosion of the gloves more than once per second, and you can build the damage completely around those explosions. But nobody has both of the correct weapon mods with a burn suffix and the burn chance bonus stat on legendary bonus stat quality yet, so nobody can show how it actually performs once the build is ready. And there are similar build defining bonus stats for every build in those suffix bonus stat pools.

If you want to see the possible bonus stats, you can visit Nisa (the mushroom girl in the towns) and look at the mods she sells. They list the possible bonus stats for those suffixes. I think Nisa is still bugged and the mods she sells actually come without the suffix, and therefore without a chance to actually have those bonus stats they show, but for an overview it is already quite useful (Just the list of additional possible bonus stats for the violent/precision/talents suffix is something I can't find so far).

If you check the ingame wiki, you can also see that different kinds of content have different guaranteed mod suffixes. For example all the build specific suffixed are guarateed to be on corresponding weapon/mask mods which drop from the prime wars, which makes the prime war loot some of the possibly most valuable loot in the game (no idea where those would drop on a PvP server, but nobody cares about those anyways). Just as a hint for those who complain about prime wars just being a senseless resource sink. Yes, the do need some gameplay and performance improvements, but that is a different topic. I'm happy to invest those resources if that gives me a chance to permanently supercharge my build. And what is the point of collecting those resources anyways, if not to spend them to get the best loot in the game?

Having a build with your preferred weapon, all armor pieces and all legendary base mods ist just a preview version of that build for proof of concept purposes. To unlock the true power of many builds, you need the right legendary mods with the correct suffixes with the correct combination of bonus stats with the highest bonus stat rarity level you can get. And farming those - that is a major part of the intended endgame.

For those who complain about the lack of controllers to farm those mods:
1. The game/your weapon build is not meant to be "finished" in one season. You keep all mods over the seasons, so finding those elusive perfectly rolled mods is something that is intended to be done over the course of possibly month and years. If you cry that you dont have all 9 mods perfectly rolled after a week, then the game is probably not for you.
2. The game is from China, and there you have various laws in place to prevent you from excessive gaming. You are not supposed to play video games for 12 hours a day. If you play all day every day, then that in itself is your problem, not the lack of controllers in a video game. But for those who play a moderate amount, the controllers are generally enough to get a good amount of chances at a good mod over the course of a season. And if nothing good drops this season - then maybe in the next. Long term progression over many seasons is the base principle that the game is build upon, not "finishing" it in a few weeks.

Tldr:
- Learn to understand how mod suffixes work
- Farming good mods is one of the major intended endgame progression systems
- Specific content drops mods with specific suffixes
- Weapons/builds are often balanced around specific modifiers which are hidden behind the mod suffixes. So to actually compare different build, you have to at least know, or better actually have mods with those modifiers. Without them, you often only see a small fraction of the power a build can have. All that content creators give you at the moment is clickbait, not a real look at the power of most builds.
- You are not supposed to have "finished" the game/maxed out your build after one or two seasons
- You are not supposed to play the game 12 hours a day

Notes: - This is just my current understanding of the current mechanics and my personal interpretation of the intentions of the gamedesigners. There is always a chance that I misinterpreted something, especially since some information is quite limited in the ingame wiki.
- Since a lot of mod drops are random, you will automatically work on multiple builds at the same time. Don't throw away all mods which do not help your current build. You can always mix stuff up and play a different build next season. The mods you dropped for the previous build will not go away, and you can still drop mods for the previous build with your new weapon, and maybe come back to a more powerful version of your previous build later.
- If that sounds too grindy for you - I can assure you that once you have your full set of perfectly rolled mods they will introduce mod prefixes .

[Neokoshin]

Thanks for the guide. Prime War seems to be also bugged, I have not yet found a single usable Mod with Suffixes (in my Case Crit) rolled. Not on Hard or Pro. All suffixes are the same as in the Silos.

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

Originally posted by Cathach:

The base principle that the game is build upon, not "finishing" it in a few weeks.


- You are not supposed to have "finished" the game/maxed out your build after one or two seasons
- You are not supposed to play the game 12 hours a day

See this is what annoys me and a lot of others. It's not up to them to decide how much I play, that's why I live in the US and not a communist dictatorial government that tells you how to live your life. If I want to live a sedentary lifestyle, that is my choice

As for the "finish your builds after one or two seasons", that is completely false. Every game I've played allows you to create your build as you see fit in a reasonable time frame, as long as you put in effort. Effort currently cannot be put into this game because of the "excessive" gaming rule

I don't play 12 hours a day and most people don't either. But the game so far has been limiting us at every turn and it can be infuriating at times. You try to farm one mod, a silo for 15 minutes per run. RNG says "lol nope" and next thing you know, you wasted 60 controllers just for 1 mod. Don't even get me started on only being able to wear 1 unique piece of gear

Most people will quit before they ever get their build going at this rate, if anything they need to loosen the restrictions

[Whiplash]

This isn't every other game youve played then apparently because it's not letting you just get everything you want to get and max out in 4 weeks...
As for most people quitting the concurrent rate has either gotten larger or stayed where it's at since launch..
To have these kind of complaints 4 weeks in seems overly pouty...
Also the only reason you live in the us is the universal dice role, you just happen to be the egg that won.. that doesn't come with entitlement

It sounds like you're unhappy and frustrated, this probably isn't the game for you, be nice to someone else and quit your server so someone else can invite their friends..

Every game has RNG, it isn't new to not get what you want.. that's actually how life works too..

Stop being whiney

[Asmosis]

I did wonder where all those build specific mods came from in my inventory and why i never seemed to find anymore. I only did PW's once for the starcrom, so that explains it.

Also sucks that they removed ALL the text on mushroom girls inventory of mods. I guess its because when it listed all the affixes, it didnt say "you have a chance to get these" so people got upset their shiny new Mod didnt have the full list lol.

[Warlord]

can someone please explain what the difference between "elite" and "great ones" is?
for example... i farm Manibus alot these days. is he a elite or a great one?

[Efour]

Great post.
I'm coming to realise this is all just RNG and designed for a player with a communist state dictating their playtime.

The game is clearly meant to be micro transaction hell but as they had to dial it back for western markets some of the weaknesses show up.

Enjoy it for now it's going to be dead in a few months. It's already a ghost town on my server. There's like 30 active players
.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Efour:

Enjoy it for now it's going to be dead in a few months. It's already a ghost town on my server. There's like 30 active players
.

Ya'll really need to be making a discord for your server like my server did. We have four hundred people in it and host events regularly. We just did back to back Prime Wars for hours as a collective. If the community is dead, you have to ask yourself what role you played in assuring it would be.

[cappa]

Originally posted by Gilderoy Lockhart:

Originally posted by Cathach:

The base principle that the game is build upon, not "finishing" it in a few weeks.


- You are not supposed to have "finished" the game/maxed out your build after one or two seasons
- You are not supposed to play the game 12 hours a day

See this is what annoys me and a lot of others. It's not up to them to decide how much I play, that's why I live in the US and not a communist dictatorial government that tells you how to live your life. If I want to live a sedentary lifestyle, that is my choice

As for the "finish your builds after one or two seasons", that is completely false. Every game I've played allows you to create your build as you see fit in a reasonable time frame, as long as you put in effort. Effort currently cannot be put into this game because of the "excessive" gaming rule

I don't play 12 hours a day and most people don't either. But the game so far has been limiting us at every turn and it can be infuriating at times. You try to farm one mod, a silo for 15 minutes per run. RNG says "lol nope" and next thing you know, you wasted 60 controllers just for 1 mod. Don't even get me started on only being able to wear 1 unique piece of gear

Most people will quit before they ever get their build going at this rate, if anything they need to loosen the restrictions

I mean... People have played an entire xpac in WoW and not gotten their BIS to drop because of weekly lockouts....

[Asmosis]

Originally posted by Warlord:

can someone please explain what the difference between "elite" and "great ones" is?
for example... i farm Manibus alot these days. is he a elite or a great one?

Elites are the tougher mobs that drop "blue" orbs, or whatever you call loot drops. Think the heavy shield/gattling gun guys from Rosetta, the deviant claw machine etc.

Great ones are the final area bosses and PW bosses (Hound, Giant, Treant, Manibus).

[zghaun]

funny you mentioned build diversity, whenever there's a Chiron Event. I see atleast 50% - 90%+ using the same Golden ARs with the same Crossbow

[Asmosis]

aside from being the strongest, shrapnel gun was also the first starcrom gamba to unlock so a lotta people got that without knowing how strong it was. I have it sitting collecting dust for that reason since i prefer icy rain.

[generrr72]

Originally posted by Cathach:

As an example, lets take the burn suffix. One of the bonus stats of the burn suffix is up to +6% burn trigger chance. Have you ever wondered why the burn chance of the Boom Boom is this crude 18%, and not something round like 20%? The reason is that you can have two pieces of equipment with the burn suffix, for a total of +12 additional burn chance, which brings the burn chance of the Boom Boom to 30%. And this 30% is the value that the weapon is balanced around. That is why a lot of discussions about the power of various builds is completely meaningless, because most players don't see the potential of most builds yet. A Boom Boom with the Hardy Gloves can trigger the explosion of the gloves more than once per second, and you can build the damage completely around those explosions. But nobody has both of the correct weapon mods with a burn suffix and the burn chance bonus stat on legendary bonus stat quality yet, so nobody can show how it actually performs once the build is ready. And there are similar build defining bonus stats for every build in those suffix bonus stat pools.

Sorry, but it looks like you got this part wrong, or at least how it works now.
The 12% chance of Burn proc (6+6 from Wep and Mask mods), applied as a multiplier to the base chance (Boom-Boom base chance is 18%), not as a fixed flat bonus.
So the chance of applying the burn stack formula is 18 + (18*0.12) = 20.16%.

On the test (with +12% bonus chance) I got ~22% chance. (645 bullets - 143 burns), I also did more short slections tests, never getting more than 30% final or even close to 30%.
You can prove me wrong or just bad luck with this test by making a longer selection (1000, 5000, etc) and getting the burn proc chance result closer to 30%.