Some thoughts on desperatly needed changes

[Sheep Happens]

Hello everyone,
Star Conflict is my most played game on steam, I do like it a lot (ish) and I also do consider myself a very good pilot. For what its worth, I was ranked among the best 100 players for a couple time. I feel like this needs to be said in order to counteract the unavoidable shouting "You are not good enough to judge/experince the game like I do!" in steam forums. i furthermore do not use any sort of P2W-Ships or other Ships, that are theoretically obtainable through playing, but are too strong to allow for a balanced experience, if in hand of a mediocere+ pilot, like stingray. This post comes from somebody, who is interested in the games mechanics, not winning in itself. I have read pretty much every module/weapon description, am able to name every ship and according special module and have played through all tiers and gamemodes. That being said, lets hope we dodged some rethorical bullets and get to my points:

I do realize, that this game buisness-modell very much intends to have a certain degree of unbalance towards paying players. Most F2P-Games do anyways and it shall not be my main point of concern in the following text. I want to adress it because having your game set up in this way, leads to a tendency of the (much) paying player-class routing for style of playing, that require less training and offer a lot of second chances. This is not because people, that pay are worse players, but because worse players will pay more often that good ones, if you offer them buffs in return for their money. And that, everything even, a paying player is buffed quite significantly through equipment and ships, that are unobtainable or virtually unobtainable through pure playing, is nothing to be discoussed on in this game. This is after all, still a tendency and shall not be judged here, but it plays in the hands of the main problem, I want to adress.

To my main thesis:

This game has an overabundance of AoE-Attacks and heavy artillery. The combat does not focus around good piloting and aiming but more on strong abilitys and cooldown management. The actual combat has been taken to far away from the player and very little of the actual killing is done by primary fire any more. This is problematic and I will go into why in a second.

This may seem like a strange thing to state, but hear me out here, before you judge. For transparency reasons I should admit, that I prefer to play Interceptors and Tackler, so in a way I am requesting a buff for my playstyle, but the reason, why I do enjoy these classes more than the heavier ones is partially because of the problem, that I am adressing here.

As it is with SC, I come and go every few months and I just dropped out of a three month pause ans was eager tp grind my way to the top as I always do, but I noticed something while playing, that has kind of always been there, but the new update finally made me realize and verbalize, what was bothering me. The game was slow and the interaction with the other pilots had become more and more trivial. I found the most success with heavier ships, which is strange, because I am way better with fast ships, thatn I am with the heavy ones and I am relative to paying players very underequiped on Suppressors and similar playing ships. What was going on?

I soon came to the realization, that I did not accelerate on heavy ships, but found myself unable to perform on fast ships. The reason for this was the permanent shift in mechanics, that introcued more and more autonomous damage abilitys (Hammerheads and WazGots battlestations, crystal drones etc.) and powerfull AoE-Blasts (Main Caliber, Crystalline Suppressor etc.), that instead of targeting me, would just outright blow up the entire objective and every ship, that wasnt a frigatte or tougher with it. I do acknowledge, that there are ways to dodge these abilitys or play around them. This is not my concern here. I want to argue, that this trend is bad for the gameplay. Why? well...

As soon as I realized this, it hit me, that every round I entered, had back to back 6 or more supressors in it, and a tendency to bunker comps. Again: its a tendency, not a law; but a bad one of those. The way I understand it, the story goes like this: The addition of stronger and stronger abilitys made the use of ships, that require more skill (yes I used the s-word), because their base-kit has more potential and thus have a tendency to weaker abilitys, less viable. This leads to more players picking heavier ships, that are less vulnerable to burst damage, autonomous weapons and heavy guns. These ships are tendentially heavier, which in trun leads to more AoE-Blasts, autonomous weapons and heavy guns

There are obvious exceptions, but if you check the sets, that people take out into battle, you will realize, that their fast ships are all part of a narrow pool of very strong ships, that dodge the meta through blank power. WE ARE LOSING DIVERSITY HERE FOLKS! Part of what makes the game so appealing me is the infinite toolkit, you have to craft everything according to your style. But as the abilitys get tendentially stronger, fewer and fewer ships are able to compensate for this through their kit and have to go with the flow. Look around you. Every round is the same; there is zero diversity, because the player do not want to be on such a substancial disadvantage.

I also see less Tacklers being played and those, that are playing Tacklers go for burst damage instead of Crowd-Control to protect their heavy teammates. I cant help but think, that this is, because the overall power of piloting-heavy ships with non-damage abilitys has decreased significantly. (where did the Ignis-Blaster go? i didnt see one in ages, because singularity canons are significantly better against bigger targets) If you want to counter a dive, you just try to kill it with brute force, before it kills your team, rather than trying to make a dive not viable through the use of CC and your presence as a defensive tackler.

You may disagree with me here and there, but there is no denying, that there are ships, that through a combination of their stats and kit dominate the meta. I will not name any specific ship here in order to dodge the people trying to explain me, how to counter THAT ship or THAT ship. I want to talk about fundamentls here. The domination of the meta is a pity, because it destroys the part of the game, that is the most fun to me: making a strategy and crafting your set to fir your style of piloting perfectly. We are losing this games diversity and this is a pity.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying, that the game will die because of this- of course it wont. But we are losing out on a more diverse and fun experience and when talking about a game this in itself should count as reason enough to think about change.

What can be done? Hard question. Im not a game designer after all, but I have some ideas, that somebody with actual competence could surely craft into a working concept.

Idea 1: Limit the amount of suppresors in a game/force a certain main role distribution
Why not limit the amount of strong abilitys, that can be cast by limiting the number of ships, that can do so? Overwatch saw a similar problem with the goats meta and fixed it by introducing 2/2/2. I could imagine, that only one player for each four players in your team will be allowed to play supressor. This would allow for only 2 active supressors on the field for each team of eight and would make them certainly much more important and better guarded by their team.

Idea 2: Reduce the power of Damage-abilitys and autonomous weaponry.
Obvious but very hard to do in such a game, where so many factors impact each other. Still: it would certainly make the game more dynamic and finally allow some actually Mouse-1-battles to take place again.

Idea 3: Reduce the power of P2W-Ships
I know, many people do not want to hear this, but it is a fact, that you cannot have a diverse experience, if some ships are so powerfull, that they put everyone, who does not use them, either because he wants to try something different for once or simply because he is not able to, on a substantial disadvantage.

Idea 4: Buff CC and other non-damage-abilitys
This in itself will not fix the problem, because a one-hitted ship will neither profit from a teammates buff or be easier killed by a enemys debuff (ded is ded bruh), but it will be a little motivation to experiment a little more with your build and diversify the meta.

Thanks for your time, please be respectfull to each other when commenting on this.

Yours sincerly

Eric

[Moon-Shadow]

Info for all other my Text is German , for "Sheep Happens" the is German Language.

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Entwickler sehen nicht in dieses Forum , und selbst Moderatoren sieht man keine mehr.

Daher sollte man besser im Offiziellen Forum vom Entwickler das schreiben , also dort einen Thread öffnen und das hier dann Kopieren , anpassen muss man so wohl nichts.

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Probleme für ein Zerstörer Limit.


Wie Zerstörer kamen dachte ich die kämen mit einen Limit , was sie nicht kamen da es so einige Probleme für Limits gibt.

Wenn Spieler nur mit einen oder mehren davon Starten , und nichts anderes dabei haben , würden diese dann immer die sein die ihre nutzen können , alle anderen die so einen zusätzlich dabei haben können ihre nie nutzen.

Wenn ein Limit gibt , kann es dazu führen das ein anderer vorsätzlich sich zerstören lässt weil gerade ein Zerstörer zerlegt wurde und bis dieser Spieler neu Spawnen kann der andere jetzt mit seinen Starten.

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Premium Schiffe , andere sonder Schiffe.


Premium Schiffe haben nur einige Werte anders , nicht alles und haben daher dann andere Nachteile.

Premium Schiffe können zwar 2 Module auch von anderen Rängen nehmen , die für andere Schiffe Spezial sind wo je nach Schiff nur 1 oder 2 oder 3 Module es gibt , da Premium Schiffe aber Slots auch oft anders haben als Normale Schiffe geht auch nicht jede Kombination.

Die Sonder Schiffe also die Gelben die keine Premium Schiffe sind , und die Lila , sind oft Zwischen Schiffe die mehr für bestimmte Sachen genutzt werden können , nicht für jeden Spieler geeignet , und werden erst mit den eigenen Spezial Modulen gut , Module die man Teuer Kaufen muss von anderen Spielern oder sonst nur schwer durch Spiel zu kriegen sind , ohne diese Module sie eher Schwächer sind als andere Schiffe auf diesen Stufen.

Die Prototyp Schiffe Rang 15 , sind mittlerweile Teilweise benachteiligt , da sie keine Besonderen Module haben , und keine von anderen Schiffen nutzen können.

Alle Lila Schiffe von Rang 16 und 17 ( Gibt es Rang 15 die kein Prototyp sind ) , alle kommen mit eigenen Modulen , können aber keine Slots anpassen , manche Schiffe sind viel zu Stark und manch andere viel zu Schwach.

Ellydium Schiffe , manche Spieler tun Schiffe zu Stark auf Slots ausrichten , statt was anderes zu nehmen , und diese sind dann oft viel zu Stark , vor allem "Tai'Kin" was dann Super Schnell ist mit Geschwindigkeit Aufrüstungen und vielen Slots , alle anderen gehen so von der Balance da es auch Schwächen so mitbringt.

[niripas]

Originally posted by Sheep Happens:

(...)

I agree with most of it actually. I don't play random PvP anymore, I play mostly the seccon. And we do see furballs there, but it's more a fighter furball, not intie. Inties were severily nerfed when decoupling guns from the fuselage was removed and angle of fire reduced. I can still 1v1 Ze'ta with it, but most of the time I see heavy setup on the battlefield. Dunno why people are not doing the fighter wings anymore - we were facing such a wing on heavy setup and still fighters + inties -> destroyers in that case.

Also please don't use P2W in this context. Last time I checked there are no such ships in this game. Not a single ship will guarantee you win. You can say you are one of the best pilots in the game but if you use a phrase "P2W ship" all your credibility goes to drain.

[Moon-Shadow]

German.

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Zu dem P2W , da wollte ich auch was noch schreiben , oben wurde es erwähnt bis ich unten ankam hatte ich es wieder vergessen.

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Ein Premium Schiff also etwas das man direkt für GS Kaufen kann , und sonst nur durch bestimmte Events Kostenlos gibt , oder zu bestimmten Zeiten viel billiger ist.

Macht aus einen Schlechten Spieler keinen Guten.

P2W ist nur dann etwas wenn es einen Automatisch besser als andere macht , ohne sich mit irgend was auskennen zu müssen.

Also je nach Spiel , nimm das halte es in diese Richtung und du Triffst immer , oder es macht bei Treffen einen Schaden den andere mit Normalen Sachen nie haben werden , oder du hältst viel mehr aus um viel länger als andere noch was machen zu können.

Also man etwas hat das man als Kostenloser Spieler nie haben kann , und auch nie durch irgend ein Event erspielbar sein wird , da es sonst viele haben könnten ohne Geld zu Zahlen.

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Hier ein Premium Schiff , man hält nicht viel mehr aus macht nicht viel mehr Schaden , man trifft nicht besser.

Nur eben die das man 2 Besondere Module von anderen Schiffen nutzen kann , und das kam zusätzlich das auch Premium Schiffe Interessant bleiben , da sie sonst nur für Open Space mehr Inventar Plätze haben , und sonst den XP Bonus , und einmal Gratis Respawnen.

Sie bleiben weiterhin aber was sie sind , also wie normale Schiffe nur mit anderen Slots und leicht anderen Werten aber immer noch mit Schwächen.

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Ein neuer Spieler wird mit einen Premium Schiff Rang 12 Tackler nicht besser sein , als mit einen den man für Credits Kauft , weil es immer noch ein neuer Spieler ist der die Mechaniken des Spiels lernen muss , und jede Klasse so Stärken und Schwächen hat , und P2W würde voraussetzten das man besser ist ohne das man was lernen muss wie das Spiel geht.

[Sheep Happens]

Originally posted by niripas:

Originally posted by Sheep Happens:

(...)

Also please don't use P2W in this context. Last time I checked there are no such ships in this game. Not a single ship will guarantee you win. You can say you are one of the best pilots in the game but if you use a phrase "P2W ship" all your credibility goes to drain.

Okay. I will use other terminology to describe it.

[Moon-Shadow]

German.

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Wenn man bestimmte Schiffe nicht hat weil man meint sie wären P2W , dann ist es klar das man keinen Bezug zu diesen Schiffen hat , um zu sehen das sie nicht P2W sind.

Und alle Schiffe auch Schwächen habe , kann man nicht von P2W sprechen , um P2W zu sein dürften die keine Schwächen haben , das Schlechte und neue Spieler Automatisch besser sind.

Bei Guten Spielern fallen die Schwächen von Schiffen eh weniger auf , je nach dem was einer mit einen Schiff machen will.

[FocusedRISK]

Hi all. Used to love Star Conflict and played from beta way back in 2012 until around 2016. Check out my stats on frogswarm if you don't recognize me or think I'm not legit. For elitists who think my win % is low, usually queued solo and matchmaker used me to balance on the underdog team against top corp squads like NASA.

The game peaked in my opinion before 2015 when it was just an arcade shooter with low barrier to entry. Never bought any GS and was a strong defender of the game being free-to-play, but over time the game definitely became pay-to-win. Maybe no GS-exclusive ship is too overpowered, but definitely there is grind and GS helps with progression. If there are 2 players who each play 10 hours, the player with GS will have better equipment than the non-GS player, and the GS player will probably win if they have equal skill & in-game time.

Meta started getting worse with Dreadnoughts (in version 1.1?) and then really with Destroyers (in version 1.3?), which emphasize big ships with high health, damage, and AoE over high mobility ships such as Interceptors like Sheep Happens wrote in the opening post. The game was more fun when it was fast-paced dogfights like TIE Fighters vs. X-Wings in Star Wars, not slow-moving slugfests between capital-size Destroyers. Before that, Intys were honestly kind of overpowered in the hands of pro pilots, but some of those fast-paced battles were some of the most fun times I've ever had in gaming. My favorite ship was the (free!) Federation R9 Inty (Kite?) back when most people were playing T3, and yes it got nerfed multiple times (like niripas wrote about the shooting angle). Sounds like balance is still pretty similar, so I sympathize with you Sheep Happens on meta imbalance.

Honestly was never really a fan of open space or PvE, I understand different people enjoy different things and they added cool features to the game. But in addition to making the meta more favored to small/fast ships again, I think the game should ideally focus on making PvP quick queue accessible so that casual players can play 3-4 matches in half an hour. No grind and ideally everyone from newbies to vets would have access to the same ships and equipment to make balance fair and totally skill-based. Saying the game is not P2W is not true if there is still grind and GS makes grinding easier.

Otherwise the fact is that the playerbase is just going to be diehard fans who are still committed nearly a decade after launch. Look at the numbers on steamcharts for evidence that it's slowly dying, I'm not as loyal to the game as all of you but genuinely wish they had not destroyed the old meta and still had more active players. It would be so much better if it opened up to casuals and let new players fight on equal level with vets who have been grinding for years.

[Moon-Shadow]

It is not a P2W if both play the same amount, and only one has better because he bought GS.

In this game it takes more time to get the same thing.

P2W is something if there is something that you can only get by buying with real money, and this is significantly better than other things.

And the example is also bad because it assumes that both players have to use the same things, so both players have to have the same taste of what kind of things they want to use, and then both have to play the same, upgraded things or the next higher module of the same type or next higher ship with similar values ​​but same class, would make a difference.

So no, those who give real money don't have to make better progress automatically.

It's not P2W if you can level faster for real money, P2W is if you get super powerful things that you can never get for free because they are only available to buy for real money.

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Steam Online, and stats from Steam do not count, there are many Player the Play directly via the launcher that are not counted by Steam because Steam does not even know that they are there, or someone installs the game via Steam but then starts it without Steam.

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A Contradiction, between new players should be on an equal footing with old players, that would mean that you could buy more things for real money, that new players can keep up with the old ones, because those who have been playing for years have a lot more or everything depending on how much they played, and new ones don't have anything yet, so they would have to buy more things for Real money to keep up.

The other way would be, no matter what there is, everyone has it, no leveling, no real money purchases, everyone is on an equal footing with new and old players, problem everyone who has invested time says everything you did was free everyone now has everything, and on this one The developer would not earn any money and all servers would be closed, then game would be dead.

[Moon-Shadow]

Then destroyers aren't bad for the game either.

It just needs to be better adjusted the balance.

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A bad idea was to give them a weakness when you are closer to them they take more damage, you could have done something else.

Since this weakness unfortunately also exists for PvE, and depending on the location in Open Space, or the degree of difficulty of a PvE mission, you get a lot of damage with a destroyer anyway, which gets worse when a whole horde of NPCs come to one.

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Balance. ?

Destroyer Players may not have more than 2 destroyers with them, and must have at least one other ship with them, after killing one destroyer they must then use one of the other ships, which is not a destroyer, that would mean that another player would also come along to use his destroyer, there should be a limit to how many are allowed to be active.

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Bad Balance. ?

As destroyers came I saw players who had 3 destroyers with them in PvP and PvE and nothing other than destroyers.

If there was only one limit, the problem would be that such players would not be able to spawn, or that others would never be able to use their destroyer because they would have to be dead and thus in the respawn time, so that if the destroyer player dies the other player can spawn with his .

Which would lead to the fact that some would deliberately die all the time, which would be very bad depending on the PvP mode, and worst of all for the mode where you have to take out a certain amount of opponents, and there would certainly be some who would try to use their destroyer in this way.

[niripas]

Originally posted by FocusedRISK:

Hi all. Used to love Star Conflict and played from beta way back in 2012 until around 2016. Check out my stats on frogswarm if you don't recognize me or think I'm not legit. For elitists who think my win % is low, usually queued solo and matchmaker used me to balance on the underdog team against top corp squads like NASA.

The game peaked in my opinion before 2015 when it was just an arcade shooter with low barrier to entry. Never bought any GS and was a strong defender of the game being free-to-play, but over time the game definitely became pay-to-win. Maybe no GS-exclusive ship is too overpowered, but definitely there is grind and GS helps with progression. If there are 2 players who each play 10 hours, the player with GS will have better equipment than the non-GS player, and the GS player will probably win if they have equal skill & in-game time.

Meta started getting worse with Dreadnoughts (in version 1.1?) and then really with Destroyers (in version 1.3?), which emphasize big ships with high health, damage, and AoE over high mobility ships such as Interceptors like Sheep Happens wrote in the opening post. The game was more fun when it was fast-paced dogfights like TIE Fighters vs. X-Wings in Star Wars, not slow-moving slugfests between capital-size Destroyers. Before that, Intys were honestly kind of overpowered in the hands of pro pilots, but some of those fast-paced battles were some of the most fun times I've ever had in gaming. My favorite ship was the (free!) Federation R9 Inty (Kite?) back when most people were playing T3, and yes it got nerfed multiple times (like niripas wrote about the shooting angle). Sounds like balance is still pretty similar, so I sympathize with you Sheep Happens on meta imbalance.

Honestly was never really a fan of open space or PvE, I understand different people enjoy different things and they added cool features to the game. But in addition to making the meta more favored to small/fast ships again, I think the game should ideally focus on making PvP quick queue accessible so that casual players can play 3-4 matches in half an hour. No grind and ideally everyone from newbies to vets would have access to the same ships and equipment to make balance fair and totally skill-based. Saying the game is not P2W is not true if there is still grind and GS makes grinding easier.

Otherwise the fact is that the playerbase is just going to be diehard fans who are still committed nearly a decade after launch. Look at the numbers on steamcharts for evidence that it's slowly dying, I'm not as loyal to the game as all of you but genuinely wish they had not destroyed the old meta and still had more active players. It would be so much better if it opened up to casuals and let new players fight on equal level with vets who have been grinding for years.

So you are basically asking to level the battlefield for newbies that have 10 hours and vets with 10k+ hours? At this moment they are not even in the same PvP queue and won't face each other. There is a mode that everyone gets the same 4 ships with the same equipment - Survival. Only skill matters there.
And regarding P2W. I know a person that started playing the game and after about a week there was Ze'ta Deluxe on sale. He bought it. As he had now the R15 ship, he was put in normal PvP queue. He didn't do squat. He was complaining that everyone was cheating and he was spending most of the time waiting for his destroyer to resapwn.
I was trying to follow your train of thought that GS makes grinding easier. Ok. The top gunship at this moment is a Wolfhound. Before you will unlock it, you will be playing enough time to get those monocrystals to cover it's cost. Obtaining the GS without real money is actually pretty easy these days. But let's go to it's smaller cousin - a Stingray. Stingray is a glass cannon and with Wolfhound they represent what you are looking for in this game - dogfigther class. However Stingray dies almost immediately if you don't have enough experience on this type of ship flying fed inties or gunships before. A person that has less than a hundred hours on that type is basically a cannon fodder on the more advanced battlefield levels. So yes - GS will speed up getting a ship a little, but not the skills to fly them. Not in significant way.
And regarding the "meta" - in seccon tactics play a major role. You can't just take 8 dessies when enemy has 4-5 fighters and two interceptors. All dessies would be in hangar in about a minute. I see a lot of dogfights there and still the skills play a major role, not to mention you can select the tiers of the battlefield.
Random PvP queue - well there is a problem. MM is trying to match players in best possible way but on the other hand - it tries to get the queue time as short as possible. It's usually under a minute, but for that some bots would be added.

[Velorace]

Am I and Nrripas the only players here that think the game is "actually" balanced, and that even F2P ships can compete with "paid" ships (that can be earned freely with some cost) because F2P ships are as good as premium ships :D

[FocusedRISK]

Moon-Shadow:
We just disagree on the definition of "P2W" then, I get what you're saying but to me if the grind is significant and paying reduces that grind significantly then the game is indirectly P2W. Is grinding a big part of Star Conflict or not? Of course loyal diehard fans who have been playing for years do not want to think that their game is P2W, but I am not the only one with that opinion--over 50 of my Steam friends are from Star Conflict and only 4 have played in the last 2 weeks. Yes, I understand people play off Steam and on client, half my time was that way too, but fact is that Steam is a top gaming platform and it's not great that so few people are playing Star Conflict on it. Surely it would be good for the game to have a larger playerbase and have some veteran players like myself who knew how to play well return.

"The other way would be, no matter what there is, everyone has it, no leveling, no real money purchases, everyone is on an equal footing with new and old players, problem everyone who has invested time says everything you did was free everyone now has everything, and on this one The developer would not earn any money and all servers would be closed, then game would be dead."

Yes, this is what I mean for PvP quick match. It wouldn't necessarily mean that the game would die, purchases would be available for cosmetics. Using Overwatch as an example again proves that this can work and that a game can be popular and survive financially with vets having no in-game advantage other than skill/experience.

niripas:
As I wrote above, I don't really care for open space or PvE or SecCon to be honest, what I want basically is PvP quick matches (like how the game originally was pre-Dreadnoughts) with minimal bots and 4-12+ real human players on each side. An arcade shooter like Overwatch or CoD but in space with starfighter dogfights, and all players on the same level with instantly-available equips. Ideally no or minimal destroyers (e.g. hard cap per side rule). Not sure I remember Survival, when was that added?

Maybe we do not really want the same game actually, although if vets want to keep progression in open space or other modes then that is fine with me, just let standard PvP queue be fast and even without bots. Idea is for casual players to be able to jump in and just play 3-4 matches in 30 minutes without having to grind. If there are newbs that don't know how to play and get owned by vets because of purely different skill level, that is fine as long as they are distributed evenly across both teams and matchmaker keeps the game balanced.

Using my R9 Kite example again, I want newbs to come into queue with the same fully-maxed Kite that I have and play on the same equip level. Because of skill/experience, I will still probably win 99/100 times (if it were 1v1), but at least the newb has a better chance than using a new R7 ship vs. my fully-maxed R9 Kite.

Vets really only need better skill to win, if they also have better equip than newbs then it increases the barrier to entry and that becomes a problem because it limits the playerbase. I would much prefer the game to have a larger playerbase and shallower progression over deep progression (i.e. grind, whether P2W or not) and small playerbase.

[Moon-Shadow]

I have on my friends list, one the Play years, every day.

And there are 2 others who play it a lot, also one who has been playing it for years.

Otherwise 9 others who played it at some point, some under 100 hours, and others well over this time up to 500 hours, and 2 from this have 900+ hours and 1200+ hours.

And this 12 Player from my , 72 people on my friends list.

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"Overwatch"

Bad example because it's a completely different game.

There is no open space where you have PvE part, there are also no PvE missions that go against NPC's.

I was just watching some LetzPlay and the game is nothing to me.

You have to know everyone, you should be able to speak the same language, because with random players you are more likely to lose.

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Then only optical things that are a problem because everything is small and much further away, so that you can bad see it in yourself, as in other.

This is different with other players where you are closer.

Then every MMO game of any kind has an EP booster system, things that can be bought to reduce game time, but still be good for leveling up in the game.

And then something is not P2W, since many games offer something like that to buy with game currency, where you then pay more than 10,000 to 100,000 or 1,000,000 depending on the game and what currency and its value, and you Then buy things that shorten one time or one gets what the other buy for real money, and this game currency can be achieved with game time or occupations in games.

P2W is always something that cannot be achieved without real money, i.e. numbers to win because it is things that are better than normal things that are available to everyone.

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The game was new many years ago, when something is new, many always want it, when something is older, fewer and fewer are added.

And when a lot of people play something, they play it up to a certain point where they think they have everything I wanted, new games because I play now, then play this one less until sometime no more, and maybe come back sometime or neither.

In the past it was only PvP, everything that contained PvE did not exist yet, I've only been playing since Open Space and PvE missions existed, before I didn't even know that the game existed.

There are players the Like PvP games than those who have no PvP, these games then PvP more than anything else, if they play anything without PvP at all.

Then there are players who like little to no PvP, they steer clear of that.

There are also players who like PvE MMOs, but nothing with fantasy with magic, and would rather play something in the future, but such MMOs are rare in comparison to the others.

It all matters, not everyone plays the same game, some always want the latest game, other games have something for years, others keep coming back, and some stop because the game is not the same as it was on the first day, because the game Can not stay as it came, because it would stop there would be new players but nobody would really stay because there would never be anything new, because new changes the old.

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There used to be a China server that no longer exists.

One reason could be that too few people from China were playing so the server wasn't worth it, or that China allegedly wants to stay more private, because the games that are played in many other places in the world are different for China.

For China, "Warframe" has different content in some things.

"World of Tanks" has in China version, many tanks that are no longer in the game, some of which are from the Balance a P2W because they are still based on the first game versions, these tanks were adapted to the game for the rest of the world , in the China version can be bought for real money, tanks that had to be researched and were never premium tanks, the rest of the world can only buy premium tanks directly with real money and only if they are currently offered and there are unmatched tanks So not to buy it for the rest of the world.

"World of Tanks" China version is made in China by another developer, one from China, and they prefer to buy P2W content there than a balanced game where you can get by without real money purchases.

"Worlds of Tanks" For everyone else in the world, the only thing you have to buy are garages to be able to park the new tanks that you buy for play money after researching them.

[KnightForEyes]

Easy. Remove Premium + r16+ ships and Ellydium ships too.
No chips. Only grind.
Actually Co-op missions and more missions instead.

No one wanted a ship update... Becouse this game really needed to focus PvE gameplay... but they ruined everything with PvP... OH YEAH Lets take Tons of P2W chips and 1 shot a damn destroyer.


I have notling to say anymore. War Thunder babies cries about balance issues... Star Conflict is way worse than that.

There's no "Teamwork" in this crappy game.
Anyway.


Becouse developers out there cant even balance a stick to the damn nuclear bomb.

Im out.

[niripas]

Originally posted by FocusedRISK:

niripas:
As I wrote above, I don't really care for open space or PvE or SecCon to be honest, what I want basically is PvP quick matches (like how the game originally was pre-Dreadnoughts) with minimal bots and 4-12+ real human players on each side. An arcade shooter like Overwatch or CoD but in space with starfighter dogfights, and all players on the same level with instantly-available equips. Ideally no or minimal destroyers (e.g. hard cap per side rule). Not sure I remember Survival, when was that added?

Maybe we do not really want the same game actually, although if vets want to keep progression in open space or other modes then that is fine with me, just let standard PvP queue be fast and even without bots. Idea is for casual players to be able to jump in and just play 3-4 matches in 30 minutes without having to grind. If there are newbs that don't know how to play and get owned by vets because of purely different skill level, that is fine as long as they are distributed evenly across both teams and matchmaker keeps the game balanced.

Using my R9 Kite example again, I want newbs to come into queue with the same fully-maxed Kite that I have and play on the same equip level. Because of skill/experience, I will still probably win 99/100 times (if it were 1v1), but at least the newb has a better chance than using a new R7 ship vs. my fully-maxed R9 Kite.

Vets really only need better skill to win, if they also have better equip than newbs then it increases the barrier to entry and that becomes a problem because it limits the playerbase. I would much prefer the game to have a larger playerbase and shallower progression over deep progression (i.e. grind, whether P2W or not) and small playerbase.

There was such a matchmaker that was grouping players in tiers, but there was too much newbie farming by the vets. It's not a big game, so devs decided to change it to allow new players have some fun in their skill brackets as well.
Pre dreadnoughts we had a queue much longer than now - 5 minutes was a norm.
Current MM is based on stats of your strongest account (yes, there are people that wanted to farm newbies, so they were creating a new account and seal clubbing R1 ships) and if you are a newbie - you will face a newbie unless you cross some kind of a number (games? level? unlocked ships? there is no much detail available publicly).
Queue is usually under a minute now if you are playing during the day GMT and then there is another peak of activity (usually afternoon in Americas).

[niripas]

Originally posted by TR-KnightForEyes:

Easy. Remove Premium + r16+ ships and Ellydium ships too.
No chips. Only grind.
Actually Co-op missions and more missions instead.

No one wanted a ship update... Becouse this game really needed to focus PvE gameplay... but they ruined everything with PvP... OH YEAH Lets take Tons of P2W chips and 1 shot a damn destroyer.


I have notling to say anymore. War Thunder babies cries about balance issues... Star Conflict is way worse than that.

There's no "Teamwork" in this crappy game.
Anyway.


Becouse developers out there cant even balance a stick to the damn nuclear bomb.

Im out.

1st. Developers are not the ones that balance the game. All balance changes are proposed and voted for by comitee of players. Then those changes are going to public test and if there are no complains - those changes are accepted and deployed on live servers.
2nd. Chips do work on other players only in Open Space in PvP enabled sectors. Also - chips bough from passess suck. I don't have any single one from those. All were scrapped to upgrade other chips.
3rd. Ellydium ships are just different. After latest buffs even Vigilant has it's place on the battlefield. Tharga is an average fighter, Waz'got cannot self heal and Taikin is as agile as Federation interceptors.
4th. There is a teamwork in team oriented modes (Seccon, Portals, Tournaments). You can't just go solo there.