Mission inconcistency?

[Metharius]

did one mission today to test out the tyrant and get a feel before going into pvp and having to pay for repaire ...

The NPC ended up dealing 197k damage and litteraly 2 shot my tyrant....

My usual inquistor S waw worst. i really didn't get it. Obviously the mission failed.


So i queu up again, but this time i wwon't bring out the tyrant...

the mission was a freaking breez ...

So the next one i use the tyrant ... got curbstomped again


WTF is happening ? Sometime the missions is a stomp sometime it's so easy it's boring with (♥♥♥♥) rewards -.- ...

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eddit: apparently there is a difficulty modifier ... so my question become: how do you kow what difficulty is good (% modifier) if you compare lvl 17 (normal) to 20 or 23 ?

[Moon-Shadow]

The difficulty balance is extreme after 17.

Only brings what if all players have fully upgraded ships.

Full synergy, and modules in violet and orange.

And the highest ranks of ships you have.

And the seed chips if possible, even if they didn't exist before.

-

So more of a challenge than a joy.

[Kangaroo]

yes, it's hard to find the perfect balanced difficulty for missions even if u are in a 4 man premade group before starting the mission.
with 3 randoms, it's nearly impossible and only a attempt.
I only see the used ships (+ synergy level and stats if you mouseover) of my mates.

used modules and Power/Defence level of my mates are informations that are missed, but very important to find the correct difficulty.

i could be wrong but i did not see this information at the Prepare-for-Battle-Screen, pls correct me if i am wrong

[niripas]

Level 15 Fire Support is more or less normal difficulty level. Half a year ago formula for difficulty was pretty simple - bots were doing 5% more damage and had 5% more health per level (multiplicative). So for your example - level 17 - they had 2x more health and were doing 2x damage, for 23 they had roughly 3x health of lvl1 and doing 3x damage.

[Metharius]

the problem i had was that the missions didn't seems different. They just insantly one shot you unless you cheez with stealth.. To the point that when i 1st tried the tyrant on such mission (i didn't touch anything aside from selecting it) i got nearly one shot and though it was a bug or that i pressed a self destruct button to switch ship..


Had the difficulty be more about swarming and more ship variety as you increase the level rather than just sheer bulletsponge and un-managable damage output i would have dirrectly understood that i was playing at a higher difficulty level.


I honestly think it would be better to increase the number of enemies and their variety to force teamplay and strategy rather than just HP&damage. Especially because this game is not an hack and slash were you can get new version fo mod that are higher and higher (like 18 19 20 22 ... like the mission difficulty)

[Moon-Shadow]

I would also prefer more opponents and other types.

Bad that they are just getting harder.

Advantage with more variety, even players with a lower rank and ships could do a difficult mission.

The problem that they leave the fight because the system says the other player does not yet have access to higher ones, that would be much rarer since there are more opponents and other types from rank to rank.

---

So instead of seeing 10 hunters in a wave who can withstand more and more ..

To:?

8 light hunters, 2 heavy frigates.

4 light hunters, 2 medium hunters, 2 heavy hunters, and 2 medium frigates

4 light frigates, 4 heavy frigates, 2 medium fighters.

Or from a certain rank then 1 destroyers, 5 medium frigates.

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Opponents should also be able to fire missiles.

Not in lower ranks, only higher, and only a few at the same time on one player, and only in much higher ranks also more on one player.

But not something like, 10 frigates, all on one player, something is too extreme, all Player on Guardian Fregattes on would have to have a missile defense system that would defend the 10 to 11 missiles, which would intercept the first wave of missiles from one and the next from the other and so on.

Which would then be a letdown.

[Metharius]

Originally posted by Moon-Shadow:

I would also prefer more opponents and other types.

Bad that they are just getting harder.

Advantage with more variety, even players with a lower rank and ships could do a difficult mission.

The problem that they leave the fight because the system says the other player does not yet have access to higher ones, that would be much rarer since there are more opponents and other types from rank to rank.

---

So instead of seeing 10 hunters in a wave who can withstand more and more ..

To:?

8 light hunters, 2 heavy frigates.

4 light hunters, 2 medium hunters, 2 heavy hunters, and 2 medium frigates

4 light frigates, 4 heavy frigates, 2 medium fighters.

Or from a certain rank then 1 destroyers, 5 medium frigates.

---

Opponents should also be able to fire missiles.

Not in lower ranks, only higher, and only a few at the same time on one player, and only in much higher ranks also more on one player.

But not something like, 10 frigates, all on one player, something is too extreme, all Player on Guardian Fregattes on would have to have a missile defense system that would defend the 10 to 11 missiles, which would intercept the first wave of missiles from one and the next from the other and so on.

Which would then be a letdown.

YES! I hope the devs realise that, and realise that the fun is difficulty brought by increase in veriety rather than pure bullet spongy enemies that OS you and forces you to avoid fighting in the 1st place if you want to win ... wich is .. royaly stupid

[Allnamesrgone]

unfortunately it is as others have already said at above, mission difficulty really difficult to guage, hard to find perfect highest level for a group of pubs. The mission levels dont follow a linear correlation with your attack / defence upgrades. For reference you can get by for levels under 15 with attack/defence same level as your mission but for levels higher it scales very weird. Seedchips also add another layer of unknown variability. I've seen level 200/160s struggle with lvl 50 missions

[Metharius]

what do you mean by level 200/160?

[Kangaroo]

after accomplished a mission u can loot a blue treasure that contains a resource called 'insignia'
insignias are needed to increase your Power/Defence Level.

How to find this menu for upgrading:
Click at the Battle button,
instead of choosing Co-op, PvP or Random Mission you need to click at the Missions Button left next to the Random Missions Button.

i know this question was not directed to me but i was coincidentally at this forum

[Moon-Shadow]

And that level will increase, on Co-op and Pve.

No effect in PvP, not open space.

Spec Ops. ?

[jamnb]

it's even more miserable on a vigilant.

[minimum]

mission too hard ?

BATTLE>MISSIONS>upgrades

two active modules can render your live easier
_moriarty virus 6-10 13-17 = forces enemies to shot each other during 6,+ sec
_rebellion trojan 9 exclusively on stillettoAE = capture turrets during 30sec ; funfact: also works in pvp against battle stations :P

___
how do you know difficulty ? = you just feel it
level 40/40 in mission 20 can pop out everything .. sometimes .. and sometimes eeeh the mission is harder than others at lvl20 ,)

so _ just crash test _ take notes ; in other words : understand+remember=learn

[Metharius]

Originally posted by minimum:

mission too hard ?

BATTLE>MISSIONS>upgrades

two active modules can render your live easier
_moriarty virus 6-10 13-17 = forces enemies to shot each other during 6,+ sec
_rebellion trojan 9 exclusively on stillettoAE = capture turrets during 30sec ; funfact: also works in pvp against battle stations :P

___
how do you know difficulty ? = you just feel it
level 40/40 in mission 20 can pop out everything .. sometimes .. and sometimes eeeh the mission is harder than others at lvl20 ,)

so _ just crash test _ take notes ; in other words : understand+remember=learn

that's the thing. they are not "harder"
Upgrade only uprade hull and shield amount.
meaning you will reach a moment were that upgrade bvecomes irrelevant or "a litteral timer" because your module won't heal you for more even if you have 1 million hull and shield to tank 200k damage per hit your module will only heal a few % of that..

and so like you said: you spend the whole mission not fighting. absuing stealth, use the enemies to fight each ther and cap stuff ...

[Moon-Shadow]

If it were a single player game, mods could be made to get better instead of bullet sponges.

Like many hardcore mods for Fallout 4, opponents get better, better behavior or more or players with opponents a normal little HP level system, instead of players 300 lives and super mutants 3'000 + lives, here the developer also made it easy .

Because making AI better and offering more variability is harder than giving opponents more and more life.

---

Only a few single player games and also online games rely on good and varied AI.

Most games mostly on mass of opponents, or on more and more life and damage.

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Single player games.

Hack and slash games, both masses of small enemies, and single ones with extreme lives.

Shooters that are up there, or extremes, until good behavior, until opponents camp you dead because they are AI cheat with everything.

---

So finding balance what AI can and should be has always been the hardest.

Especially when the games give the player a lot and new games ask for even more options than the ones before.

So the player can do more and more, depending on the game it is difficult to improve the AI so that it can do more without cheating, like seeing everything, infinite ammunition, infinite money, higher resistance, more life, more damage or something other.

[minimum]

Originally posted by Metharius:

[
that's the thing. they are not "harder"
Upgrade only uprade hull and shield amount.
meaning you will reach a moment were that upgrade bvecomes irrelevant or "a litteral timer" because your module won't heal you for more even if you have 1 million hull and shield to tank 200k damage per hit your module will only heal a few % of that..

and so like you said: you spend the whole mission not fighting. absuing stealth, use the enemies to fight each ther and cap stuff ...

defensive upgrade gives %hull and shield
but offensive gives %dmg

%dmg will influence 'missile slots' = healing drones for exemple on destroyer

but i can admit in open space and missions modules and modifiers are not getting good % from chips or upgrades = the best heal remains waz"dum gun when you mathematicaly tend to infinite ; otherwise [commtiment 13]and [shield projector] are some FAT heals.