The Hunger System

[beans]

I have a question to ask you all. What do you think of the hunger system in Starbound? Do you think it adds to the game, and if so, how? Even if it doesn't add to the game, what does it incentivize; from what you can tell, what does it make you, the player, do differently?

I'm asking because, well, I've been reading a few books on game design recently, and the one I'm currently on is The Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell. Now, in one of the passages, Jesse goes on about rewarding the player. He used food and hunger as an example. In one of the games he was involved with designing, an initial idea was to make it so the player has to eat food every X minutes, or they get a hunger debuff. The play testers hated it, and felt it made the game a lot more boring. Jesse attributed this to the game putting the player in a situation where they're forced to do a menial task, or else they're punished, which, to the player, is a lose/lose situation. It's not fun. So, what they did instead was they inverted it. They removed the debuff for not eating, and instead gave the player a buff for eating. It didn't negatively affect the players at any point, and rewarded those who managed to keep food on them and remembered to use it.

I've seen a few games take a few different takes on this. Skyrim, for example, just gives you a tiny amount of health for eating. So do a lot of other games. Bioshock Infinite also does the same thing. But, these games take slightly different stances. In Skyrim, people have made mods that make it so you have to eat every so often, or else you get serious debuffs. A lot of people don't like these mods, but a lot of people also swear by them. The way they work is that, if you're well-maintained in one area (thirst, hunger, disease, or sleep (and some mods have cleanliness too)), you get a nice buff to go with it. But if you don't maintain one of those areas, you get a big debuff to go with it. This debuff starts out small, and gets bigger as time goes on. In Bioshock Infinite, most foods just give you health, but some foods actually give you salts. And what's interesting is that some foods actually take away health or salts in exchange for more of the other. And some foods just drain both health and salts. I find this interesting, because there's no real penalty for not eating, but by eating, you can either get buffs or debuffs, making the system punishing & rewarding at the same time but not intrusive. Terraria and the early versions of Minecraft (pre-hunger, probably alpha or infdev) have a system where food is basically meaningless, but by eating it, you gain stuff. In Terraria, this is a big buff to your stats, and it lasts for a few minutes. In Minecraft, this is just raw health which you get by consuming food. In Minecraft's case, you're not punished for not eating food, but since you don't really regenerate health, you kind of have to eat food anyway. In Terraria's case, you don't get much from eating food unless you're preparing for something. You can't use food in Terraria to recover from a fight, whereas in Minecraft, you can, and vice versa.

Now, what's interesting is Starbound's approach. I personally feel it's one of the worst ways to implement a hunger system based on the ways all these other games have done it. Unlike Skyrim mods, you don't get any benefit for eating a lot, besides a minor buff if you eat way more than you should and waste food. Unlike Bioshock Infinite, there's no real risk/reward system for eating food. Unlike Terraria, you don't get a preparatory mechanism in the form of a buff for eating food. Unlike Minecraft, you don't get a recovery mechanism in the form of health recovery for eating food. Starbound just has a food meter, and if you don't satisfy that meter, you die. I haven't really heard a lot of outcry about this system. In general, food and hunger tend to be overlooked quite a bit; the only time it's ever really been brought to attention is in the case of Skyrim mods, since there's an entire discussion page for each and every mod that implements hunger, thirst, etc. So, I haven't heard much for or against Starbound's hunger system, but I thought it'd be something worthy of discussion.

So, what are your thoughts? Do you like Starbound's hunger system? Why or why not? What do you think it sets out to do, and do you think it accomplishes that goal?

[TheSuit]

You actually get pretty major buffs basd on the quality of food you make.
Tier 4 food gives - health regen + speed boost + damage boost + energy regen and or armor boost.

[beans]

Originally posted by The | Suit:

You actually get pretty major buffs basd on the quality of food you make.
Tier 4 food gives - health regen + speed boost + damage boost + energy regen and or armor boost.

Huh, interesting. I tried to think of the benefits of eating food, and while I could think of a few foods that gave you buffs, I couldn't think of which foods. I guess that sort of slipped my mind.

Still, though, you don't really have access to those kinds of foods in the early game. Or, if you do, they're not going to be your primary food source. The buff comes from the food you eat, not the eating of food in general, which is why I think the current system isn't very good. There are a couple foods you can eat which give you buffs, and in the late-game, you're going to be snacking on those the majority of the time, but otherwise a lot of the foods are just... the same. The main difference between the basic foods is how much hunger they restore. While it is a little bit rewarding to eat better foods over worse foods because they restore more hunger, it's not really rewarding as much as it is the opposite of punishing. You're not being rewarded for eating most food, you're only delaying the punishment for not eating it.

EDIT: Apparently cooked food gives some buffs as well. I actually had no idea about this. I guess that makes a few of my points moot, and in fact, that's actually good for the hunger system. You're punished for eating raw food (IIRC, you get a health debuff?), or otherwise being hasty, but you're rewarded for cooking the food beforehand by gaining buffs. I feel dumb for forgetting both of those things, especially since they're so common.

[TheSuit]

It generally helps trying something in entireity before making an assesment.

[DSC-173]

I like the hunger system, but I can't say that I love it.
As it is now, it seems kind of, well... empty.
It seems too much like what every other game does: "Eat food: gain health, forget to eat food: lose health." In my opinion, it needs something special to make it unique (I honestly have no idea what could be added, yet I feel it needs something...), and maybe you could add some more needs? I know having to do stuff repeatedly because you will die if you don't can seem quite annoying at times, but that's why you have casual mode, right? Maybe a need for hydration (which the desert and other hot areas may make more necessary)?

Else than that there is a LOT of room for improvement, the hunger system in starbound is quite stable, and the fact that you gain healing when you're full makes food quite smart to eat before boss fights or other life-craving missions you might have.

[BlackUmbrellas]

Hunger got tedius fast. My first character was basically unplayable because I tried normal/survival mode and dropping my stuff every time I ran out of food was infuriating.

I wish they'd kept temperature instead.

[Ballsm]

The hunger system keeps me growing food so I enjoy it. Without it I'm not sure I would bother with a farm. The buffs are nice as well

[MysticMalevolence]

I'm annoyed by how quickly the bar drops.

[Geim]

Originally posted by SpookyDylan:

I'm annoyed by how quickly the bar drops.

This. In my opinion, thirty minutes is too little time for the hunger bar to completely run out, especially in a game where you can explore for hours at a time. Rot times makes this even harder, because all you could do in these situtations is place a campfire and cook some rice, as most of your food you prepared before would be junk.

[TheSuit]

Near end game when you have tons of pixels one option is Canned Food from infnity express.
It does not expire and a good source of emergency food.

[bloodymonarch]

The way it is now is fine. It's an optional feature anyways. There's really nothing more to do with this system beyond expand the food choice selection even more. This is such an insignificant thing when compared to the rest of the game and accompanying issues.

[MysticMalevolence]

Originally posted by The | Suit:

Near end game when you have tons of pixels one option is Canned Food from infnity express.
It does not expire and a good source of emergency food.

It does indeed expire, it just takes ages.



I'm annoyed by expiration in general... but I don't want to restart to get rid of hunger.

[The Molar Muncher]

It used to be worse back in the Koalas.

Hunger back then was just there to be there, and to pester you if you didn't constantly have stacks of food on you at all times. It went up if you ate and down if you didn't. If it drained completely you would lose health. no debuff if your character went hungry, and no buff for eathing often. Hunger itself was immediately irrelevant, since you could have unlimited food that was fresh indefinitely. It was neat for your first few hours, but it eventually became something you only remembered when the beeping began for the 435th time.

If you thought hunger is pointless now...

[Rikuto]

i cant help but like the hunger system. ok it is annoying when you focus on building a colony or basically anything and then you need to stop at some point to eat rice (best food ever :P).
but in this case i think all it does is it adds to immersion. i mean, dig up a mountain in a day – would you be hungry afterwards? xD
also i like it because in starbound even with an endgame character, there is a constant threat of dying (compared to, say minecraft. minecraft endgame is really boring because to kill you, it needs an enderdragon. what do you care about zombies when wearing diamond armor). not only because of the hungersystem but that adds to it.

but maybe the hungersystem is a weird example of rewarding. because in real life, there is one simple reward for eating. you keep living :P that makes it somewhat acceptable in videogames.

[BlackUmbrellas]

Originally posted by sbened:

i cant help but like the hunger system. ok it is annoying when you focus on building a colony or basically anything and then you need to stop at some point to eat rice (best food ever :P).
but in this case i think all it does is it adds to immersion. i mean, dig up a mountain in a day – would you be hungry afterwards? xD
also i like it because in starbound even with an endgame character, there is a constant threat of dying (compared to, say minecraft. minecraft endgame is really boring because to kill you, it needs an enderdragon. what do you care about zombies when wearing diamond armor). not only because of the hungersystem but that adds to it.

but maybe the hungersystem is a weird example of rewarding. because in real life, there is one simple reward for eating. you keep living :P that makes it somewhat acceptable in videogames.

I gotta disagree with hunger being a "good" mechanic because it threatens endgame characters. Endgame characters shouldn't be threatened by boring trivialities anymore.

[MysticMalevolence]

Originally posted by *Insert edgy username here*:

It used to be worse back in the Koalas.

Hunger back then was just there to be there, and to pester you if you didn't constantly have stacks of food on you at all times. It went up if you ate and down if you didn't. If it drained completely you would lose health. no debuff if your character went hungry, and no buff for eathing often. Hunger itself was immediately irrelevant, since you could have unlimited food that was fresh indefinitely. It was neat for your first few hours, but it eventually became something you only remembered when the beeping began for the 435th time.

If you thought hunger is pointless now...

I actually though Koala's system was better. I do not feel most of the buffs are worth it, so to me it's the same thing but without the ability to stack food...