Why does everyone like Zweihandler/Claymore so much?

[Rontemon]

Both of them has C scaling in STR even at +15..

Anyway.. What is the best weapon to stagger/stunlock invaders and bosses?

I want to weapon that can stunlock bosses like Knight Artorias, Four Kings Smough, Orstein, everything with a single swing.

[Ankkah]

C scaling is good enough.
Claymore is liked for its moveset, you can take it anywhere and it always performs well.
Zwei is just a powerhouse with good stagger and a decent moveset.

A single swing stagger on bosses? A great hammer of your choice is your best bet, and demon great Xs, and that might not guarantee a stagger from 1 hit. I can stagger Smough (Not Super Smough) with a Flamberge, takes 3-5 hits.

[ahaha.wav]

People like the Claymore because it has high base damage as well as what is essentially a straight sword moveset of swings and thrusts, it also has relatively low stat requirements and is very good for stun-locking in PVP. I think the 2 handed swings (possibly the 1 handed but don't quote me on this) have a poise breakpoint of 55, which means it'll stun lock anybody you face with less poise than that. The Zweihander is widely used for similar reasons, it has low stat requirements for an ultra-greatsword and outputs insane damage compared to other weapons of similar weight at the level you can wield it. The Zwei also benefits from very good range and wide swings that are able to practically hit enemies behind you, making it very useful for dead-angling in PVP also. It's also worth noting that the Claymore's "C" scaling in both Strength and Dexterity make it a good choice for quality builds who utilise both stats for weapon scaling, wheras the Zwei is generally considered more of a Strength weapon due to its weight.

As for stun-locking bosses: heavier is better but you will probably find that most bosses are deliberately hard (if not impossible) to stagger with a single hit in order to make the fights more balanced.

[Shifty Mario]

Mainly because of the moveset. Claymore is very easy to use, has good range, and low stat requirement. Zwei is also easy to use, lighter than most weapons of its type, does obscene poise damage, and can stunlock. Both weapons have decent base damage which make them suitable to go elemental.

Any great hammers, great axes, and ultras can easily stagger anyone. These require the opponent to have 76 or more poise in order to take a single 2H R1 attack. Ultras are notorious for stunlocking and zwei being the lightest and lowest stat requiring ultra is well liked. Look at the giants dad build for example. Great hammers cannot stunlock. Unsure about great axes stunlocking ability.

As for bosses, stick with any super poise breaking weapons if you want to stagger them.

[Rontemon]

Publicado originalmente por Shifty Mario:

Mainly because of the moveset. Claymore is very easy to use, has good range, and low stat requirement. Zwei is also easy to use, lighter than most weapons of its type, does obscene poise damage, and can stunlock. Both weapons have decent base damage which make them suitable to go elemental.

Any great hammers, great axes, and ultras can easily stagger anyone. These require the opponent to have 76 or more poise in order to take a single 2H R1 attack. Ultras are notorious for stunlocking and zwei being the lightest and lowest stat requiring ultra is well liked. Look at the giants dad build for example. Great hammers cannot stunlock. Unsure about great axes stunlocking ability.

As for bosses, stick with any super poise breaking weapons if you want to stagger them.

How do we know which weapon have a better poise break than another? Does it go by weight? The heavier the more poise break?

I just looked the giantdad build https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=392287790850586495

I usually hold a shield up unless I am certain I am not going to get hit at all which is quite unlikely.. That build is high risk.

[Shifty Mario]

Publicado originalmente por Ronnie:

How do we know which weapon have a better poise break than another? Does it go by weight? The heavier the more poise break?

I just looked the giantdad build https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=392287790850586495

I usually hold a shield up unless I am certain I am not going to get hit at all which is quite unlikely.. That build is high risk.

For finding poise break, I use this http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Poise

Giants dad is not as high risk as you think. You are a fast moving tank that can withstand most hits without getting staggered wielding a weapon that can destroy poise and stunlock to death. Most people will usually be very cautious against one. Only thing with that link is that the weapon usually used is a chaos zwei.

[Rontemon]

Found a nice video of Giant dad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL8mpiAEWZ0

[Soåre]

i stunlocked smough to death with enough stamina regen by spamming zweihander 2 handed r2s. super smough gets staggered in 1 hit by it.

[Ginseng]

im not a fan of the ultra greatswords, stunlocking is lame, claymore has a pretty clean move set though and good scaling/range, pretty good all around weapon. The weight of the zweihander is obscene, thats why everyone uses it, there are better weapons but they weigh more than twice as much.

[Darreaver]

i started out upgrading the zwie and loved the knockback power. but i'm now on my third play through and am only using the greatlord sword, love it. easy to swing, great power, i tank through most enemies as i also have the giants armor ranked as high as they will go.as well as the greatsword,

[CasuallyChallenged]

An old discussion, but aside from all the reasons already listed, one of the big advantages to both weapons is early pick up. You can get the Zwei at Firelink Shrine as soon as you get there (possibly with a death, but at that early, who cares) and the same is true of Claymore. Very early game weapons that can be power house weapons and you can build a character around them nice and early.

Whether one is better than the other is another discussion, but I tend to enjoy being able to flatten enemies "quickly" and while the sword itself is slow, it staggers, weighs less, does a lot of damage, and can be acquired very early while being usable very fast (a little soul farming, a couple dumps into strength and you can two hand it nice and quick).

So for all the reasons above plus those I listed, people tend to like both weapons.

[Walrus-Sama]

Another thing; The Zwei-Chan R2 (Both 1H and 2H) have insane Poise Damage and a Short None Damage Stagger Shockwave AOE for things just outside it's Hitbox.

[Askania]

2 words Giant Dad....

[Washing Machine]

Publicado originalmente por CasuallyChallenged:

An old discussion,

You don't say. Thread from 2013, I think flipping havel mom was still a thing?

[Walrus-Sama]

Publicado originalmente por Washing Machine:

Publicado originalmente por CasuallyChallenged:

An old discussion,

You don't say. Thread from 2013, I think flipping havel mom was still a thing?

Oh ♥♥♥♥, I really need to start reading dates of these.

[JBstonecold]

Wow, old thread. Just started playing DS for the first time this week. I've only logged about five hours so far; I'm a sword and shield kinda guy now but five hours in who knows what I end up as. Can the Zweihander be used effectively as a one handed weapon? I'm a knight and I've found the broadsword great so far. I don't want to dump into strength now to weird the Zweihander unless its worth that price. Otherwise I figure I'll dump into endurance. Thanks!