Toggle Escaping

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

As a Zweihander aficionado, stulocks are kind of my bread and butter. Single hits are great, but getting that string of multiple hits is significantly better. Problem is, people have managed to escape after being hit through the terrible eldritch magicks of toggle-escaping. Is there any way to counteract this, by either preventing or punishing the action? It's become quite irritating.

[Reoden]

Sure there is: try to learn how to actually pvp instead of just R1 spam.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

The problem is not my inability to play. I can work off of spaced-out single hits, as I said above. (Edit: I didn't make it quite as clear as I should have. I apologize.) The issue is that when I have them stunned, they toggle escape and parry the hit that, by getting hit in the first place, they deserved to eat instead. My decision to continue hitting them is based on the game's mechanics, and if I knew that they were guaranteed to get out of it, I wouldn't bother.

Now, let's try again: Is there a way to prevent, or alternately, punish, toggle escapes?

[Bones]

If you're concerned with the parry follow up dead angle with your second hit. That is turn left so you hit with the end of the swing. If you get too predictable with it they'll just bs you.

[Crombell]

Toggle escape is generally seen as the lesser of two evils when compared with stunlocking. Hell, I see that glitch as a blessing, especially with all the gold tracer spammers that exist in PvP.

The reason stunlocking is so terrible is that it renders whoever got hit enough to get stunlocked completely unable to fight back. They might as well have died from the first hit that staggered them. If you have less than 36 poise then one hit from the gold tracer will kill you, and if you have less than 53 then one hit from a zweihander will kill you.

Worst thing is that stunlock in itself is an exploit. The devs never intended for a weapon to be able to do such a thing against other players, but a select few happen to attack fast- or stagger long enough despite their best efforts, resulting in such a broken way of fighting.

If them parrying is the issue, then do as suggested above and deadangle instead. Stunlock isn't a gameplay mechanic, and is not any less of a glitch than toggle escape is.

EDIT:Actually, even when toggle escape is used, you still get an extra, unjustified, hit in on someone as it does let them shrug it off, but they still take damage. don't complain about your exploit not being perfect, it still leaves the zweihander and other stunlock weapons way better than they have any right to be.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

Clay Bones: Thanks for the advice, I'll try to use that.

Crombell: Let's look at it this way, friend. If someone slapped you in the face with a ten-pound slab of sharpened metal, do you think you'd be able to roll away to safety from the second one? How about being stabbed in the face with a knife as long as your arm? I know for a fact that I'd have trouble.

Let's look at the requirements for a stunlock:
1. You have to get hit, instead of dodging or blocking.
2. You have to be unable to no-sell the hit with poise.
3. The opponent must have enough stamina left to follow up with a second swing.

All in all, these things combined ensure that you could have done something to avoid the stunlock if you were better, or had a better build.

Don't get hit in the first place, or block it, or parry it, or just eat the damage and poise it out like a boss. Stunlocking makes sense, especially with heavy weapons like the Zwei, and it's fairly easy to avoid.

If you managed to get caught in a stunlock, you deserve to be stunlocked. It saddens me that people are able to escape learning their lesson with toggle escapes. Hopefully, Clay Bones' strategy will allow me to teach them a little bit better.

I've been stunlocked before myself. I know the feeling of being unable to retaliate. And you know what? I deserved it, because I wasn't good enough to stop it yet.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

Took you long enough, TD. Someone helpful got here before you did.

I appreciate the advice, though. No matter how gud you are, you can git even gudder.

[toroid]

Originally posted by Hevvy180 {ŦĐ/G4C/CD}:

Let's look at the requirements for a stunlock:
1. You have to get hit, instead of dodging or blocking.
2. You have to be unable to no-sell the hit with poise.
3. The opponent must have enough stamina left to follow up with a second swing.

All in all, these things combined ensure that you could have done something to avoid the stunlock if you were better, or had a better build.

Don't get hit in the first place, or block it, or parry it, or just eat the damage and poise it out like a boss. Stunlocking makes sense, especially with heavy weapons like the Zwei, and it's fairly easy to avoid.

If you managed to get caught in a stunlock, you deserve to be stunlocked. It saddens me that people are able to escape learning their lesson with toggle escapes. Hopefully, Clay Bones' strategy will allow me to teach them a little bit better.

I've been stunlocked before myself. I know the feeling of being unable to retaliate. And you know what? I deserved it, because I wasn't good enough to stop it yet.

I agree with this. I absolutely see toggle escape as glitch exploitation. I refuse to ever use it.

[Shifty Mario]

Originally posted by Crombell:

Worst thing is that stunlock in itself is an exploit. The devs never intended for a weapon to be able to do such a thing against other players, but a select few happen to attack fast- or stagger long enough despite their best efforts, resulting in such a broken way of fighting.

It's not an exploit and devs did intend some weapons to stunlock. They already did a big nerf stunlock a while back which is why you see not many use greataxes. Hammers and axes were built to stunlock with hammers able to infinite. That's the reason they have high poise damage, do okay damage, and stagger when miss. It's a risk using them.
I will admit that ultras are another story. Being able to kill from 1 stunlock is a bit much.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

Well, to be fair, high VIT builds can tank a full four hits with a Chaos Zweihander +5 and keep on coming.

Edit: Not to mention that if you don't have the VIT, you should have dodged, blocked, or poised it out.

[Hello darkness]

You coud be a trained monk who knows how to resist pain trought focus. Hell, in this game you are able to wield perfectly any weapon you encounter as soon as you have the stat requeriment, that have sense to you but not the toggle scape? As a true arm master, and a superior martial artist, being able to resist such heavy hits is not so implausible.

I think the game has enough realism, even with its glitches. For me the only thing that feels broke is the lagstabs and laghits, when taking damage or being backstabbed just has no sense.

[Hello darkness]

Originally posted by Teenage Dirtbag:

g i t g u d
i
t
g
u
d

guat gud is in so mach dirtibagin?

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

HDMOF: No. I understand the concept, being a martial artist myself, but pain resistance does not factor into being hit in the face with a ten-pound sword. No matter how tough you are, the force behind that slab of steel is too great to just no-sell it without some serious armor. Thus, the stun.

As for the movesets of some of the higher-end dexterity weapons, I agree that they are absurd. However, that doesn't change the fact that toggle-escaping not only doesn't make sense, but is a glitch that allows the evasion of something that does.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

Originally posted by Teenage Dirtbag:

Originally posted by Hevvy180 {ŦĐ/G4C/CD}:

Well, to be fair, high VIT builds can tank a full four hits with THE BASS CANNON and keep on coming.

ftfy

Thanks. That's much better.

[Reoden]

Originally posted by Hevvy180 {ŦĐ/G4C/CD}:

HDMOF: No. I understand the concept, being a martial artist myself, but pain resistance does not factor into being hit in the face with a ten-pound sword. No matter how tough you are, the force behind that slab of steel is too great to just no-sell it without some serious armor. Thus, the stun.

As for the movesets of some of the higher-end dexterity weapons, I agree that they are absurd. However, that doesn't change the fact that toggle-escaping not only doesn't make sense, but is a glitch that allows the evasion of something that does.

Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about realism? If you havent noticed this is a video game where you're an immortal running around killing giant monsters and coming back to life every time you die.

Yes, toggle escapes are essentially exploiting a glitch. I personally don't care. Stunlocking someone to death is even more pathetic. Landing one hit shouldn't mean you've won a fight. It should have been nerfed so a glitch isn't necessary. So you want to say stun locking is just a mechanic in the game? Cool story bro, so is toggle escaping. You wan't to say they didn't patch out stun locking so they felt it was fair? Then same story for toggle escape. It's not done with any third party program, it's just part of the game.

I wasn't joking when I said you should learn to pvp if you're worried about people turning your R1 spam against you. If you knew how to do more than R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 then you'd have other tricks up your sleeve and could answer someone fishing for a parry. If you don't, then lose like you deserve.

[Hevvy180 {G4C/CD} #TeamPyro]

The problem, again, is not that I cannot play the game, or that I am unskilled. The issue is that if you are stunned, and I can keep hitting you, you did something wrong, and you deserve to eat the damage. Landing one hit with a large, slow, powerful weapon should be the end of the fight, or at least grant me a huge advantage. Same for my opponent.

Stunlocks are an intended mechanic -- actively placed into the game -- that balances out the fact that these weapons are really bloody slow, can be easily dodged, and are still blockable and parryable.

Toggle-escaping is an unpatched exploit using an animation glitch that puts raw reflexive capability over even the most basic grasp of strategy. This saddens me, and all I want is to be able to tell them to git gud with my BASS CANNON.

Is that so much to ask, Reoden? That good players are able to beat bad players? If so, I'm sorry I have offended you with my perfectly reasonable question.