Magical PvP backstabs

[U_F_N_M]

Is being backstabbed by an enemy next to you normal? Is being teleported onto my opponent's sword from a metre away while in mid backflip normal? Then no thanks. Call me when this isn't normal anymore or backstabbing is removed from PvP.

[Bonkers]

It's all just lagstabs. Get a pokey weapon and stay away from yer enemy.

[undakovrist]

Yes. It's because of latency and it happens in all Souls games, but due to the nature of DS1's netcode it's a bit more obvious than the other games.
I would suggest watching this vid as it simply explains a lot of things about PvP that may not seem to make sense at first https://youtu.be/C-3FHTebNxY

[AnKalameet]

Git gud.

I don't mean that as a meme, I mean it for real. If you don't enjoy getting styled on, learn from the experience so that you can do the styling.

[U_F_N_M]

The point is in a game that has these inherent issues, endemic to online play, that cannot be resolved, I don't really see anything being broken except backstabs. I mean painting guardians and hollow thieves can backstab you but it's not an issue because it works properly. If player on player backstabs were eliminated from the game the majority of the frustration would be GONE.

[nomoreblues]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

The point is in a game that has these inherent issues, endemic to online play, that cannot be resolved, I don't really see anything being broken except backstabs. I mean painting guardians and hollow thieves can backstab you but it's not an issue because it works properly. If player on player backstabs were eliminated from the game the majority of the frustration would be GONE.

you can receive as well as perform - I'll never understand the logic of "it's so cheap and broken!" if you just think for a minute and hold your tears it becomes "it can help me vs. better players if I just practice a little"
I've shed tears too, that's part of it

[U_F_N_M]

Listen my friend. You have quoted my reply but seem to have missunderstood what I am talking bout without the context of my original post. I don't have tears to shed for being killed by an invader in a game I have logged over 900 hours on. I beat at least 1/4 of the player invaders I face. I have had a lot of really good battles and a lot of fun.

I am not calling the tactic of backstabbing cheap or broken. I clearly state that I have no problem with being backstabbed when it happens as intended. And of course I use them myself, how else can one deal with a ultra-heavy build?

The issue is not being backstabbed by an enemy behind me, the issue is being backstabbed by an enemy that is in front of me with my model not even in position for the backstab during the animation.

The issue is being infected by a gravelord servant in Oolacile using cheat engine to have invincibility 2 days in a row.

[Taco Cat]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

Listen my friend. You have quoted my reply but seem to have missunderstood what I am talking bout without the context of my original post. I don't have tears to shed for being killed by an invader in a game I have logged over 900 hours on. I beat at least 1/4 of the player invaders I face. I have had a lot of really good battles and a lot of fun.

I am not calling the tactic of backstabbing cheap or broken. I clearly state that I have no problem with being backstabbed when it happens as intended. And of course I use them myself, how else can one deal with a ultra-heavy build?

The issue is not being backstabbed by an enemy behind me, the issue is being backstabbed by an enemy that is in front of me with my model not even in position for the backstab during the animation.

The issue is being infected by a gravelord servant in Oolacile using cheat engine to have invincibility 2 days in a row.

Have a cheat engine and cheat table ready for when you encounter a hacker that can't be beat. Just flip on the invincibility and anything else there you want and wait him out. Or, you can just get Watchdog, which allows you to kick other players.

[nomoreblues]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

Listen my friend. You have quoted my reply but seem to have missunderstood what I am talking bout without the context of my original post. I don't have tears to shed for being killed by an invader in a game I have logged over 900 hours on. I beat at least 1/4 of the player invaders I face. I have had a lot of really good battles and a lot of fun.

I am not calling the tactic of backstabbing cheap or broken. I clearly state that I have no problem with being backstabbed when it happens as intended. And of course I use them myself, how else can one deal with a ultra-heavy build?

The issue is not being backstabbed by an enemy behind me, the issue is being backstabbed by an enemy that is in front of me with my model not even in position for the backstab during the animation.

The issue is being infected by a gravelord servant in Oolacile using cheat engine to have invincibility 2 days in a row.

ok - then it seems u encountered some teleport-hax-user, some of them do absurd stuff , I have witnessed but it's rather rare, with 900hrs you should be able to see the difference. False accusations are quite common and where I quoted you clearly blamed the legit-but-frustrating mechanic, not the amount of hackers.

And the intention is: *R1 reaching the backdoor-hitbox* -> backstab, it works well enough but along the lag

[U_F_N_M]

TacoCaut, good advice, but when the hacker is a gravelord servant, you can't remove the infection until they are defeated or they log off and then you have to stand around waiting and doing nothing for 10 minutes. PvP Watchdog is not able to help.

nomoreblues, I appreciate you trying to be constructive here, but the topic I created is clearly about how stupid backstabs are when combined with lag.
This is my thinking: backstabs are OK, lag in PvP is unavoidable, lag=lag hits, lag hits+backstabs=death. This isn't cheating at all or hacking, it is the way hitboxes work when there is lag. Because hitboxes work this way and lag works this way, there is almost no way to avoid being backstabbed by anyone in melee range if they are lagging. This is not a player issue, it is a game mechanics issue.
When I get murdered by an invader, I want it to be because I screwed up or the invader was more skilled or better built than me. I don't want to win or lose against invaders solely based on whether or not there is lag. If backstabs were disabled for player vs player, the lag wouldn't be a death-sentence.

[Taco Cat]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

TacoCaut, good advice, but when the hacker is a gravelord servant, you can't remove the infection until they are defeated or they log off and then you have to stand around waiting and doing nothing for 10 minutes. PvP Watchdog is not able to help.

nomoreblues, I appreciate you trying to be constructive here, but the topic I created is clearly about how stupid backstabs are when combined with lag.
This is my thinking: backstabs are OK, lag in PvP is unavoidable, lag=lag hits, lag hits+backstabs=death. This isn't cheating at all or hacking, it is the way hitboxes work when there is lag. Because hitboxes work this way and lag works this way, there is almost no way to avoid being backstabbed by anyone in melee range if they are lagging. This is not a player issue, it is a game mechanics issue.
When I get murdered by an invader, I want it to be because I screwed up or the invader was more skilled or better built than me. I don't want to win or lose against invaders solely based on whether or not there is lag. If backstabs were disabled for player vs player, the lag wouldn't be a death-sentence.

Wrong, I've got a cheat table that allows me to enable and disable gravelord phantoms.

[undakovrist]

If you're losing then it is because you messed up, regardless of if you want to believe that or not.

[U_F_N_M]

Originally posted by undakovrist:

If you're losing then it is because you messed up, regardless of if you want to believe that or not.

Well if you're never wrong, then there's nothing more to say.

[undakovrist]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

Well if you're never wrong, then there's nothing more to say.

There are dozens of videos on the topic of latency, backstabs, and how to avoid them and I've already linked you a pretty succinct one. The problem is yours, not the game's.

[U_F_N_M]

Originally posted by undakovrist:

There are dozens of videos on the topic of latency, backstabs, and how to avoid them and I've already linked you a pretty succinct one. The problem is yours, not the game's.

You are telling me the problem is mine not the game's while directing me to "dozens of videos" which coach players on how to cope with the same problems with the game I am complaining about.

I know you are being helpful and I appreciate the video link, but that sounds very apologist. I'm not asking for help finding a meta way to address flaws in the game, I am illustrating that the interaction of these 2 mechanics is broken. I don't see how my legitimate complaint draws so much indignance from you. This problem persists through the entire series to some degree. Removing PvP backstabbing would mitigate this problem to a great degree without meta solutions.

[Subtonal]

Originally posted by UseFistNotMouth:

Originally posted by undakovrist:

There are dozens of videos on the topic of latency, backstabs, and how to avoid them and I've already linked you a pretty succinct one. The problem is yours, not the game's.

You are telling me the problem is mine not the game's while directing me to "dozens of videos" which coach players on how to cope with the same problems with the game I am complaining about.

I know you are being helpful and I appreciate the video link, but that sounds very apologist. I'm not asking for help finding a meta way to address flaws in the game, I am illustrating that the interaction of these 2 mechanics is broken. I don't see how my legitimate complaint draws so much indignance from you. This problem persists through the entire series to some degree. Removing PvP backstabbing would mitigate this problem to a great degree without meta solutions.

Idk what you even hoped to accomplish my making a post about this then. If you already knew that this "problem problem persists through the entire series" then why come to a forum of people who actually enjoy the mechanics to complain about it? Tech videos and working around backstabs isn't people being "apologist", it's people who understand how the mechanics work and believe that the game is better off for it. If you don't like the mechanics and are not willing to work with them, then don't play the game, because they're not changing just because you complain about it on the internet.