Why does everyone gush over BKS?

[Histfire]

My Man-Serprent GS at +15 seems better than the BKS at +5. It recovers quicker, hits faster and the R2 skill is faster and more useful. Are the only reason people like it because it does better damage to demons and it sounds cool just saying BKS!?

[Groen90]

BKS is easier and faster to max out.
Also looks better

[King Robert Baratheon]

Also it has pretty low stat requirements for a Black Knight weapon. Oroboro used it for a "twink build" to do invasions in Dark Souls Remastered (the preview image shows him wielding a Gravelord Sword because he used that after using the BKS for awhile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a7FbJbVxI8 Dark Souls Remastered has Weapon Matchmaking but since he didn't upgrade it he was still able to invade fairly low level players iirc.

[Histfire]

I've had the BKH in my bottomless box for ages... got that out and compared it and WOW, I wish I'd used that earlier. It poos all over the BKS and I think it looks way better. Seems like the Halberd is going to be my replacement for my MSGS+15.

[Groen90]

BKH is used in speedruns for a reason, that thing can dish out some sexy damage and has a very good running R1 + R1 combo, plus it gets the counter damage bonus on hits even if it doesn't have thrust attacks... not to mention the bonus damage to demons. That's some good ♥♥♥♥ right there 👌

[Histfire]

Originally posted by Groen90:

BKH is used in speedruns for a reason, that thing can dish out some sexy damage and has a very good running R1 + R1 combo, plus it gets the counter damage bonus on hits even if it doesn't have thrust attacks... not to mention the bonus damage to demons. That's some good ♥♥♥♥ right there 👌

Ahhh I see its weakness now. BKH... slash damage. Basically any armoured enemies take hardly any damage from the BKH. I just went to the Royal Wood and those big stone mofos take almost no damage from a BKH but with my "regular" Man-Serpent Greatsword, chop, more than half the health comes off. I see now why people use BKS but it is paifully slow. Maybe I'll save the Halberd and BKS for Demons and keep using my MSGS. ANy tips regarding those annoying super powerful Golems? I have Black Iron +4 set (so far), 33 vit, 40 str, 40end, 18 dex, wearing the ring of steel protection and the wolf ring even though I have mad defense already, good poise and a Silver Knight Shield +5.

Any upgrades to consider or should I just stick with my MSGS+15? I'm SL 90. One last thing... not really a PVP guy, so if I go over SL 100 am I going to get invaded a lot? I'm in the Princess's Guard covenant.

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Originally posted by Groen90:

BKH is used in speedruns for a reason, that thing can dish out some sexy damage and has a very good running R1 + R1 combo, plus it gets the counter damage bonus on hits even if it doesn't have thrust attacks... not to mention the bonus damage to demons. That's some good ♥♥♥♥ right there 👌

Ahhh I see its weakness now. BKH... slash damage. Basically any armoured enemies take hardly any damage from the BKH. I just went to the Royal Wood and those big stone mofos take almost no damage from a BKH but with my "regular" Man-Serpent Greatsword, chop, more than half the health comes off. I see now why people use BKS but it is paifully slow. Maybe I'll save the Halberd and BKS for Demons and keep using my MSGS. ANy tips regarding those annoying super powerful Golems? I have Black Iron +4 set (so far), 33 vit, 40 str, 40end, 18 dex, wearing the ring of steel protection and the wolf ring even though I have mad defense already, good poise and a Silver Knight Shield +5.

Any upgrades to consider or should I just stick with my MSGS+15? I'm SL 90. One last thing... not really a PVP guy, so if I go over SL 100 am I going to get invaded a lot? I'm in the Princess's Guard covenant.

Manserpent is slash damage too... did you even upgrade the halberd? +15 Manserpent has only 15 more AR than a BKH +5 with your stats.
Golems go down just like any other enemy: don't get hit and hit them until they die, lol. Most of their attacks are so slow that you can just bait them to attack, run out of range and then back in when they're recovering.
Manserpent +15 is an endgame weapon, you're good. So is any BK weapon +5, too

[Histfire]

Originally posted by Groen90:

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Ahhh I see its weakness now. BKH... slash damage. Basically any armoured enemies take hardly any damage from the BKH. I just went to the Royal Wood and those big stone mofos take almost no damage from a BKH but with my "regular" Man-Serpent Greatsword, chop, more than half the health comes off. I see now why people use BKS but it is paifully slow. Maybe I'll save the Halberd and BKS for Demons and keep using my MSGS. ANy tips regarding those annoying super powerful Golems? I have Black Iron +4 set (so far), 33 vit, 40 str, 40end, 18 dex, wearing the ring of steel protection and the wolf ring even though I have mad defense already, good poise and a Silver Knight Shield +5.

Any upgrades to consider or should I just stick with my MSGS+15? I'm SL 90. One last thing... not really a PVP guy, so if I go over SL 100 am I going to get invaded a lot? I'm in the Princess's Guard covenant.

Manserpent is slash damage too... did you even upgrade the halberd? +15 Manserpent has only 15 more AR than a BKH +5 with your stats.
Golems go down just like any other enemy: don't get hit and hit them until they die, lol. Most of their attacks are so slow that you can just bait them to attack, run out of range and then back in when they're recovering.
Manserpent +15 is an endgame weapon, you're good. So is any BK weapon +5, too

I was thrown by the "Regular" category Man-Serpent comes under. My MSGS+15 takes chunks out of RW golems, but the Halberd (slash) doesn't. Why does the MSGS hit so hard if it is supposed to be slash as well?

The stone golems in Royal Wood are far tougher as I am sure you know. They have this insane dash forward followed by a massive slam which depletes my stamina bar greatly, and if you can't back away quick enough that upward skill that comes out of the ground crushes my health a lot - usually I can avoid that but the fairly quick attacks (considering the size and heft of the golem) don't give me time to dish out enough damage before I get ground up. I usually have to use the Estus a few times (+3 Flask). I can't run back quick enough with all that weight.

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Why does the MSGS hit so hard if it is supposed to be slash as well?

I'll repeat the question, is the halberd upgraded?

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

with all that weight.

But... do you REALLY need all that weight? Fighting stone guardians is one of those cases where trying to facetank attacks is a really bad idea, the benefits of dodging FAR outweigh the ones of tanking, in fact I think that's the general idea the devs went with for 90% of DLC content, especially bosses.
If you can lighten yourself up just enough to be able to midroll, that should be enough to fight them comfortably... I wouldn't advise blocking, not even with a greatshield, because of too much stamina consumption and the fact you get pushed back, and poising through is just suicide, lol

[Histfire]

Originally posted by Groen90:

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Why does the MSGS hit so hard if it is supposed to be slash as well?

I'll repeat the question, is the halberd upgraded?

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

with all that weight.

But... do you REALLY need all that weight? Fighting stone guardians is one of those cases where trying to facetank attacks is a really bad idea, the benefits of dodging FAR outweigh the ones of tanking, in fact I think that's the general idea the devs went with for 90% of DLC content, especially bosses.
If you can lighten yourself up just enough to be able to midroll, that should be enough to fight them comfortably... I wouldn't advise blocking, not even with a greatshield, because of too much stamina consumption and the fact you get pushed back, and poising through is just suicide, lol

Yeah I figured I'd have to change something - any recommendations for a more balanced set for the DLC stuff? My Black Iron, which is now almost all +5, is evidently not a good idea here. As for the MSGS, I get that it is upgraded and the Halberd isn't, but again, it's a Regular class weapon, a type of damage removed from DS2 I think. It's more choppy chop than slashy slash and while my BKH is +2, it's base damage is way higher but scales less with Str and is pure slash damage. I looked up those Stone Golems on the Wiki and they got mad Slash Def (which makes sense... coz, stone). It's no big dealio, but I've actually found that the BKH has a rather awkward angle of attack, even if it is quick. As opposed to going right now or right to left, it sort of comes in at at a 70° angle which has a good tendency to clip large opponents shields instead of hitting their legs or down their middle as would be the case with a straight chop.

I am still happy with my MSGS+15 and my rarely used Lightning Longsword+15. I'll keep those Black Knight weapons for demons and bosses (the lion doggo guardian didn't like that BK Halberd).

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Originally posted by Groen90:

I'll repeat the question, is the halberd upgraded?


But... do you REALLY need all that weight? Fighting stone guardians is one of those cases where trying to facetank attacks is a really bad idea, the benefits of dodging FAR outweigh the ones of tanking, in fact I think that's the general idea the devs went with for 90% of DLC content, especially bosses.
If you can lighten yourself up just enough to be able to midroll, that should be enough to fight them comfortably... I wouldn't advise blocking, not even with a greatshield, because of too much stamina consumption and the fact you get pushed back, and poising through is just suicide, lol

Yeah I figured I'd have to change something - any recommendations for a more balanced set for the DLC stuff? My Black Iron, which is now almost all +5, is evidently not a good idea here. As for the MSGS, I get that it is upgraded and the Halberd isn't, but again, it's a Regular class weapon, a type of damage removed from DS2 I think. It's more choppy chop than slashy slash and while my BKH is +2, it's base damage is way higher but scales less with Str and is pure slash damage. I looked up those Stone Golems on the Wiki and they got mad Slash Def (which makes sense... coz, stone). It's no big dealio, but I've actually found that the BKH has a rather awkward angle of attack, even if it is quick. As opposed to going right now or right to left, it sort of comes in at at a 70° angle which has a good tendency to clip large opponents shields instead of hitting their legs or down their middle as would be the case with a straight chop.

I am still happy with my MSGS+15 and my rarely used Lightning Longsword+15. I'll keep those Black Knight weapons for demons and bosses (the lion doggo guardian didn't like that BK Halberd).

Not sure what you mean with regular class weapon, but in any case the game treats the greatsword attacks as slash, you see it deal much more damage than the halberd because it has way more str scaling and the halberd is not upgraded.

As for recommendations for DLC... personally, I would aim for fastroll, some stamina regen and a weapon that deals a lot of pure physical damage in a single hit, with decent range... like any halberd, greatswords and ultragreatswords in general, then you pick one depending on the moveset you like. Manserpent and BKH are both more than good enough for the DLC, and the whole rest of the game too for that matter, lol. Silver knight shield +5 should help you block some hits when you're learning a boss' moveset, just don't rely on it to much.
But that's just me, you could still go with heavy armor and make it work, it would just be a little more painful, since DLC bosses are very action-oriented.

[Histfire]

Originally posted by Groen90:

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Yeah I figured I'd have to change something - any recommendations for a more balanced set for the DLC stuff? My Black Iron, which is now almost all +5, is evidently not a good idea here. As for the MSGS, I get that it is upgraded and the Halberd isn't, but again, it's a Regular class weapon, a type of damage removed from DS2 I think. It's more choppy chop than slashy slash and while my BKH is +2, it's base damage is way higher but scales less with Str and is pure slash damage. I looked up those Stone Golems on the Wiki and they got mad Slash Def (which makes sense... coz, stone). It's no big dealio, but I've actually found that the BKH has a rather awkward angle of attack, even if it is quick. As opposed to going right now or right to left, it sort of comes in at at a 70° angle which has a good tendency to clip large opponents shields instead of hitting their legs or down their middle as would be the case with a straight chop.

I am still happy with my MSGS+15 and my rarely used Lightning Longsword+15. I'll keep those Black Knight weapons for demons and bosses (the lion doggo guardian didn't like that BK Halberd).

Not sure what you mean with regular class weapon, but in any case the game treats the greatsword attacks as slash, you see it deal much more damage than the halberd because it has way more str scaling and the halberd is not upgraded.

As for recommendations for DLC... personally, I would aim for fastroll, some stamina regen and a weapon that deals a lot of pure physical damage in a single hit, with decent range... like any halberd, greatswords and ultragreatswords in general, then you pick one depending on the moveset you like. Manserpent and BKH are both more than good enough for the DLC, and the whole rest of the game too for that matter, lol. Silver knight shield +5 should help you block some hits when you're learning a boss' moveset, just don't rely on it to much.
But that's just me, you could still go with heavy armor and make it work, it would just be a little more painful, since DLC bosses are very action-oriented.

Oh man, I didn't even realise until recently that inactive equipped second slot gear adds to equip load. Here's me rolling around carrying like 17-18 extra equip load without realising AND without Havel's! I ditched the 2nd weapon/shield set and in a funny twist I decided to give BKS a go (so I don't have to keep swapping from Man-Serpent should I come across demons). I equipped Havel's & RoSP, kept my Black Iron +5. I have a reasonably fast mid-roll going. I'm not going any lighter than that.

I didn't realise scaling was so freaking insane. This is where numbers are better than Letters. Letters tell me nothing. I figured with the BKH base damage being greater than my MSGS+15, the BKH (+3 now) would hit hard enough, even though it has a C Str scaling. Nope. The difference is huge. I hit like 40-50s against a Royal Wood Golem with the BKH (then +2) vs like 300 with the MSGS+15.

One other thing before I disappear into the night. Why did FromSoftware remove "Regular" attacks from DS2 but then add it back to DS3 if it is the same as Slash?

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

The difference is huge. I hit like 40-50s against a Royal Wood Golem with the BKH (then +2) vs like 300 with the MSGS+15.

I looked around and it seems the Manserpent is not slash, I was convinced it was for some reason, so maybe there is something going on with defenses after all, because I don't remember the BKH being so weak, even against slash resistant enemies... or maybe a BKH +2 is really that weak and I'm remembering wrong... in any case bringing it to +5 should make a huge difference, each upgrade of a twinkling titanite-upgraded weapon equals several normal weapon upgrades, you should see it deal more than 200 damage at least.

Originally posted by Crunchy Toe:

Why did FromSoftware remove "Regular" attacks from DS2 but then add it back to DS3 if it is the same as Slash?

I'll tell you why:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=932351309

[nomoreblues]

Originally posted by Groen90:

. in any case bringing it to +5 should make a huge difference,

I guess this is the main plain dull valid answer
Because of flat resistances and how stacking the same damage on top (as in upgrading) makes huge differences

[Mungo der Mundschenk]

I prefered the Demon Great Machete over the BKH until recently due to the spell and resin immunity of the BKH. The DGM has 332 Base dmg at +15, it scales with an A-rating (+359 at SL 189) and you could still apply some resin or enhance it with a sepll. It's terribly slow, but it worked fine. It turned my first run though into quite a stroll (NG+ was even easier).

My BKH does 367(+164) dmg, but it's recovery rate excels. Now, on NG+6 I switched back to it since it feels only like a slight difference in dmg output (depending on type of enemy). Though it does less poise dmg...

As an example: Hitting the Silver Knights guarding Gwyn on NG+5 with a BKH resulted in a dmg output of 646, hitting it with the DGM did 764 dmg. A difference of 100 is still a differnce that I call 'slight', since the BKH has a higher recovery rate + in the end it might be just one more that the enemy can take. (I don't remember the royal woods, sorry)

During Boss fights one hit can make a huge differences, but yet because of the higher recovery rate you are less vulnerable and dodging becomes considerable.

For the BKS though... It jsut sucks IMO. Slow attacks, less dmg.

[MaenaZ]

Man-Serpent Greatsword IS better than Black Knight Sword, in the long term, that is.

The reason why everyone gushes over Black Knight Sword is that if you drop it early the weapon literally carries you through the game up until Anor Londo with little effort. It upgrades easily, maxes out fairly easily and has OP damage for the stage of the game it can be found in and its speed.


Long-term, however? One of the weakest greatswords, as well as the weakest Black Knight weapon IMO.