Classic Cleric Run?

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Classic as in old D&D - no Lightning Spear miracles, no Emit Force, no Wrath of the Gods, no Gravelord, only support miracles (including Force* and Sunlight/Darkmoon Blade) and weapons.

Weapon selection is limited to Hammers and Great Hammers.

*(I know it's technically an offensive miracle, but it deals no damage, fitting a classical cleric playstyle)

I've already done a run where I relied on offensive miracles to defeat every boss in the game - including bosses that are resistant to lightning. However, the call of the Cleric wants me to play again.

The basic idea is, just enough Faith to reliable cast miracles, pumping up Strength as well. Morningstar will be useful early on.

This is mostly for PvE but I'm gonna be human online so whatever invaders still exist for this game will be able to find me.

How does this sound to you?

[nomoreblues]

I like that a lot. Hammers and clubs yeah.
But when I think of Clerics in D&D first things come to my mind: flame strike. And lots of other offensive stuff...maybe that's not "old D&D" am I too young, lol?

anyway I like it...but also..."undead rapport" would be too cool to not use, wouldn'it?
It's a pyro sadly...but, like the clerics can animate the dead right?

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originally posted by nomoreblues:

I like that a lot. Hammers and clubs yeah.
But when I think of Clerics in D&D first things come to my mind: flame strike. And lots of other offensive stuff...maybe that's not "old D&D" am I too young, lol?

anyway I like it...but also..."undead rapport" would be too cool to not use, wouldn'it?
It's a pyro sadly...but, like the clerics can animate the dead right?

I'm thinking more AD&D (aka, 2.0) than what you're thinking, lol.

Specifically, along the lines of Baldur's Gate. It's not that Cleric didn't have offensive spells at all, but the ones they did have were either weak, or situational based off of alignment (like Holy Smite, which only hurts Evil enemies and can only be cast if you're Good, and Unholy Blight, which only hurts Good enemies and can only be cast if you're Evil), and the only spell in the Dark Souls series like that is Soul Appease (and that's more of a Turn Undead spell, which is still very Cleric in nature)

Evil Clerics can animate the dead, yes, and Undead Rapport would also function like an evil Cleric's Turn Undead (where instead of obliterating them, it controls them) but at the same time, if I was going for an evil classical Cleric, I'd be doing very different things.

[Thundaga]

A quick google does show that Clerics do get offensive elemental spells in 2nd edition, and that includes Baldur's Gate, so a Cleric that rains down fire isn't beyond the scope of old school D&D. D&D Clerics I see more as "tank casters including offensive magic" than Final Fantasy style "heal and buff do nothing else".

[Vinyltavia]

Assuming a cleric is all about being band aids is like saying a Paladin can't be a visceral extreme.
In fact, clerics have patron spells relevant to their deity and one of war or battle is sure to have some offensive capability.
Clerics ain't punk priests. They will go ham and they will blast you

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by Joshyx:

Originally posted by nomoreblues:

I like that a lot. Hammers and clubs yeah.
But when I think of Clerics in D&D first things come to my mind: flame strike. And lots of other offensive stuff...maybe that's not "old D&D" am I too young, lol?

anyway I like it...but also..."undead rapport" would be too cool to not use, wouldn'it?
It's a pyro sadly...but, like the clerics can animate the dead right?

I'm thinking more AD&D (aka, 2.0) than what you're thinking, lol.

Specifically, along the lines of Baldur's Gate. It's not that Cleric didn't have offensive spells at all, but the ones they did have were either weak, or situational based off of alignment (like Holy Smite, which only hurts Evil enemies and can only be cast if you're Good, and Unholy Blight, which only hurts Good enemies and can only be cast if you're Evil), and the only spell in the Dark Souls series like that is Soul Appease (and that's more of a Turn Undead spell, which is still very Cleric in nature)

Evil Clerics can animate the dead, yes, and Undead Rapport would also function like an evil Cleric's Turn Undead (where instead of obliterating them, it controls them) but at the same time, if I was going for an evil classical Cleric, I'd be doing very different things.

I love clerics, paladins, and anti-paladin/evil builds but since I don't know a lot about DnD I was just lurking here. The thing is though op can at least make normal weapons (meaning non-boss weapons and weapons that don't upgrade with twinkling titanite) divine to be able to kill skeletons even if their necromancer is alive and I think divine might do more damage to undead and "evil" enemies (like darkwraiths). I wish that Dark Souls 1 had a miracle like Soul Appease from Dark Souls 2. I think that miracle is awesome and is great for a cleric or paladin roleplay. If you look at the enemies affected by Soul Appease when you cast it, it looks like they are being purified of something dark within them as they die, which is very interesting and a very appropriate ability for a cleric/paladin.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originally posted by VAC Banned from Twin Galaxies:

A quick google does show that Clerics do get offensive elemental spells in 2nd edition, and that includes Baldur's Gate, so a Cleric that rains down fire isn't beyond the scope of old school D&D. D&D Clerics I see more as "tank casters including offensive magic" than Final Fantasy style "heal and buff do nothing else".

You're right in that it does depend on the deity. (Talos lets you fling lightning bolts, for starters)
Mostly, I just wanna do something different, anyways.

(Also, think Dungeons and Dragons: Tower of Doom/Shadow over Mystara, where the Cleric there's main offensive ability was Turn Undead and their mace, and mostly relied on buffing themselves or allies... with healing allies being a secondary thing to that)

Originally posted by Vinyltavia:

Assuming a cleric is all about being band aids

Who said anything about Cleric all being about band-aids? There's buffing spells, too, and debuffing where applicable.

I mean, heck, a lot of successful PvPers only ever use the weapon buffs, not the whole range of miracles.

Like, blasty clerics exist in D&D, but a lot of Clerics get more out of buffing spells than they do from blasting. In 3.5, Clerics were better Fighters than Fighters were, because of their buff spells.

In fact, healing magic pretty much ends up being more useful for healing *after* battle than during it, and even then, probably just before you're about to camp for the night. Kinda like how in Dark Souls, healing magic is more useful for after battle, due to the long cast time.

[Thundaga]

Spells that target undead are odd omissions considering the source material- though Undead Rapport does exist as a Pyromancy spell, but I don't think are necessary for roleplaying Clerics/Paladins. They're still very much "tank casters" that depend on a connection to a deified figure and can choose spells to reflect that. Solaire casts miracles related to Gwyn's power while the Clerics from Thorolund tend to use spells like WoG.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by VAC Banned from Twin Galaxies:

Spells that target undead are odd omissions considering the source material- though Undead Rapport does exist as a Pyromancy spell, but I don't think are necessary for roleplaying Clerics/Paladins. They're still very much "tank casters" that depend on a connection to a deified figure and can choose spells to reflect that. Solaire casts miracles related to Gwyn's power while the Clerics from Thorolund tend to use spells like WoG.

Also how the miracles Soothing Sunlight & Bountiful Sunlight are restricted to Gwynevere's covenant (which is complete bullsh*t, sunbros and faith builds in general should be allowed to use those without being in her covenant).

[Rithm Fluffderg]

I think the biggest reason they're omitted is because of the nature of the games.

"Turn Undead? So, basically, every player?"

Dark Souls 2 limited it to "hollow" enemies, which includes players that don't have full humanity (which is useful in that game as you can invade someone who is hollow) but then it disappeared for the third game.

Personally... I actually really like soul appease, lol. It's a fun spell when you can use it, just... a wave of light that blasts hollowed enemies into dust. Other than when casting healing miracles, it's the most cleric I feel.

Originally posted by R'hllor:

Originally posted by VAC Banned from Twin Galaxies:

Spells that target undead are odd omissions considering the source material- though Undead Rapport does exist as a Pyromancy spell, but I don't think are necessary for roleplaying Clerics/Paladins. They're still very much "tank casters" that depend on a connection to a deified figure and can choose spells to reflect that. Solaire casts miracles related to Gwyn's power while the Clerics from Thorolund tend to use spells like WoG.

and how the miracles Soothing Sunlight & Bountiful Sunlight are restricted to Gwynevere's covenant (which is complete bullsh*t, sunbros and faith builds in general should be allowed to use those without being in her covenant).

Honestly, considering all the requirements for using the spells with such a disappointing result, I have to agree.

I understand what they were going for with the covenant but a support covenant in a game that rewards pure offense is annoying.

Though for what it's worth, I'm thinking I might actually go with the Princess Guard in this playthrough since I have no use for any other covenants.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by Joshyx:

I think the biggest reason they're omitted is because of the nature of the games.

"Turn Undead? So, basically, every player?"

Dark Souls 2 limited it to "hollow" enemies, which includes players that don't have full humanity (which is useful in that game as you can invade someone who is hollow) but then it disappeared for the third game.

Personally... I actually really like soul appease, lol. It's a fun spell when you can use it, just... a wave of light that blasts hollowed enemies into dust. Other than when casting healing miracles, it's the most cleric I feel.

I forgot that Soul Appease can hurt players who are in hollow form. Did that get patched out or can it still hurt hollowed players? I thought I remember reading about Soul Appease getting patched a long time ago. I think that was actually Holy Water Urns though.

[Thundaga]

Clerics get their power from gods and goddesses (at least in D&D) so it makes sense that some spells might only come from certain ones.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by Joshyx:

Originally posted by R'hllor:

and how the miracles Soothing Sunlight & Bountiful Sunlight are restricted to Gwynevere's covenant (which is complete bullsh*t, sunbros and faith builds in general should be allowed to use those without being in her covenant).

Honestly, considering all the requirements for using the spells with such a disappointing result, I have to agree.

I understand what they were going for with the covenant but a support covenant in a game that rewards pure offense is annoying.

Though for what it's worth, I'm thinking I might actually go with the Princess Guard in this playthrough since I have no use for any other covenants.

Yeah, Lore wise and maybe balancing wise I can see why they did that but it still stucks. I have a faith build right now who has enough faith to use both miracles and it's fun using them (they're really beautiful to look at tbh) but that covenant is basically useless. Maybe in the Remaster there will be a lot of Princess Covenant members helping people in co-op (or invading and doing scumbaggy things like healing enemies in the hosts world or healing other invaders while invading, lol).

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originally posted by R'hllor:

Originally posted by Joshyx:

I think the biggest reason they're omitted is because of the nature of the games.

"Turn Undead? So, basically, every player?"

Dark Souls 2 limited it to "hollow" enemies, which includes players that don't have full humanity (which is useful in that game as you can invade someone who is hollow) but then it disappeared for the third game.

Personally... I actually really like soul appease, lol. It's a fun spell when you can use it, just... a wave of light that blasts hollowed enemies into dust. Other than when casting healing miracles, it's the most cleric I feel.

I forgot that Soul Appease can hurt players who are in hollow form. Did that get patched out or can it still hurt hollowed players? I thought I remember reading about Soul Appease getting patched a long time ago. I think that was actually Holy Water Urns though.

Why would it get patched out? It's *supposed* to hurt hollow players.

It looks like it's the Holy Water Urn that doesn't affect players.

Originally posted by VAC Banned from Twin Galaxies:

Clerics get their power from gods and goddesses (at least in D&D) so it makes sense that some spells might only come from certain ones.

Indeed. On that note, for the purposes of this playthrough, assume that I'm playing a Cleric of Lathander.

Besides, Talos is an evil deity anyways.

[King Robert Baratheon]

Originally posted by Joshyx:

Originally posted by R'hllor:

I forgot that Soul Appease can hurt players who are in hollow form. Did that get patched out or can it still hurt hollowed players? I thought I remember reading about Soul Appease getting patched a long time ago. I think that was actually Holy Water Urns though.

Why would it get patched out? It's *supposed* to hurt hollow players.

It looks like it's the Holy Water Urn that doesn't affect players.

I thought they maybe they considered it overpowered or something (because with high faith, good equipment, attunement for numbers of casts, and cast speed you could destroy hollow players with soul appease).

[Rithm Fluffderg]

Originally posted by R'hllor:

Originally posted by Joshyx:

Why would it get patched out? It's *supposed* to hurt hollow players.

It looks like it's the Holy Water Urn that doesn't affect players.

I thought they maybe they considered it overpowered or something (because with high faith, attunement for numbers of casts, and cast speed you could destroy hollow players with soul appease).

Bearing in mind, with the way the spell works, you have no idea the state of the player you're invading until you stumble across them.

And I think certain armor can easily hide the effects of hollowing.

So you can either prepare the spell on the off chance that you've managed to invade a hollowed player, and waste a valuable spell slot if they're human... or you just pack spells that damage players regardless of whether they're hollowed or not.