Bonfires

[Gorwe]

I understood what makes Dark Souls really infuriating and obnoxious for most players. And it isn't even the dreaded "difficulty"(lol come on, broken game design does not count on difficulty spectrum). It's the following thing:

-> The distance between bonfires(waypoints / respawn locales)

And this is how Dark Souls grinds people down(very cheap, shame on you From):

-> So, there's on average like 2(maybe 3 on larger ones) bonfires per map. They are usually placed somewhere around the 25% of the map and around 75%(sometimes shortly after the boss, provided that the boss doesn't resolve the map itself like Gargs or Quela). So, this is what happens if you die on the boss:
-> You're willing to live, die, repeat and learn
-> You respawn at the bonfire WAY BACK and the enemies respawn too
-> You are forced through a meaningless grind only to get to what you want to do
-> A meaningless thing blocking you from the wanted activity / thing is called FRUSTRATION
-> So, the frustration levels rise incrementally and eventually the game grinds you down(like a nasty case of DoT, this element of game design is akin to Toxic status within game)
-> Ultimatelly, you complain that the game is "difficult"

Solution:

-> Have more bonfires. ESPECIALLY near bosses. Now, I'm not advocating to place the bonfire right in front of boss like Lords did, but perhaps 4(or so) bonfires / map? This would shorten the round trip from 5 minutes(or so) to 1 minute. It'd also highlight the bosses as opposed to a meaningless trek through enemies that mean NOTHING to you.

This is ultimately by biggest gripe with the game. How many uninteresting and ultimatelly pointless treks you have to do just to keep doing what you want to be doing. All easily solved.

[veelqnexus]

This is the game of focus and learning the world. You haven't even finished it yet so I guess you don't know most of the areas and how they are built. Once you're there, you will be amused with your salty tears in this topic, because world design in Dark Souls 1 is 1st class. And yes also, bonfire placements. You just don't realise where they are and don't know all shortcuts/routes yet.

[m0k]

Firstly, bonfires, placed the way they are, are for invasions. If you have a bonfire near a boss, all you have to do is reverse hollowing, summon a phantom and win every bossfight. The travel from a bonfire to a boss adds to the tension of being human.
Secondly, The design of the worldmap revolves mostly around Firelink shrine. If you unlock several shortcuts, going from point A to point B isn't that long a trek anymore.
Thirdly, after acquiring a certain item traveling from bonfire to bonfire will become very different. The fact that you have to walk so much in the beginning is to make your progress interesting/difficult/challenging (whatever you want to call it at this point). Later on it will be not so much about exploring on foot anymore.

[Dexter]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

This is ultimately by biggest gripe with the game. How many uninteresting and ultimatelly pointless treks you have to do just to keep doing what you want to be doing. All easily solved.

Why not go all out, download CE, that spicy table and give yourself unlimited HP?
How many uniteresting and ultimatelly pointless times You had to heal just because of the broken and unfair boss design? AND without pause on menu. That is unfair!

[LadstonFelisGaming]

So you'd prefer the lazy design of putting bonfires in unnecessary locations (*cough* Dark Souls 2 and 3 *cough*)? Interesting approach.

Jesting aside, if you thoroughly explore each area, you'll find that a majority of them have well-placed shortcuts that makes future navigation a cinch. Most bosses maybe take 5 minutes at most to run back to if you're being careful. It also depends on how you've done in the area itself.

[Gorwe]

Invasions...the aspect that like 10% of playerbase asked for. The sociopathic 10%. Who get offended if a player goes Hollow / offline / has fun. Really, what's the big deal with you morons and allowing others to have fun the way they want to have it?

Otherwise, I see no downsides to having more Bonfires. Apart from being less "Hardcore" in the cheapest way imaginable.

edit: See Outcast? 5 minutes. Just to get to what you want to do. This is what frustrates people. I would have next to nothing against wiping 100 times in a row provided that I didn't have to do that 5 min trek EACH TIME(100 * 5 = 500{EIGHT and a HALF hours!} instead of like 100 * 1 = 100). And it is cheap. Sorry if I offended anyone's holy scripture, but the game's FAR from perfect.

And obviously From realized that and changed the # of Bonfires in sequels. To the chagrin of sadomasochistic and sociopathic 10%.

[MaenaZ]

Every Dark Souls fan complains there are too many bonfires in DS3.

Bonfires can't be placed right next to the boss because that would interfere with the multiplayer aspect of the game. Everyone would just humanize at the bonfire right at the boss gate and make random invasions borderline impossible. Not to mention you'd never lose out on anything going to the boss and always challenge them at your full strength, as well as always retrieve your souls if you died, while at the current time you have to actually study the game and put in effort to reach the boss room with minimal or no resource loss, whether you eliminate opponents or dash through them. Also people who do want to engage in 'jolly cooperation' would likely completely fail to notice the mechanic where killing certain enemies when the boss is still alive gives you extra humanities and would have no chance to attempt co-op or PVP if they ran out of humanity consumables as a result.

With very few exceptions, DS1 has the level design completely down pat.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by MaenaZ:

Every Dark Souls fan complains there are too many bonfires in DS3.

Bonfires can't be placed right next to the boss because that would interfere with the multiplayer aspect of the game. Everyone would just humanize at the bonfire right at the boss gate and make random invasions borderline impossible. Not to mention you'd never lose out on anything going to the boss and always challenge them at your full strength, as well as always retrieve your souls if you died, while at the current time you have to actually study the game and put in effort to reach the boss room with minimal or no resource loss, whether you eliminate opponents or dash through them. Also people who do want to engage in 'jolly cooperation' would likely completely fail to notice the mechanic where killing certain enemies when the boss is still alive gives you extra humanities and would have no chance to attempt co-op or PVP if they ran out of humanity consumables as a result.

With very few exceptions, DS1 has the level design completely down pat.

Sometimes I wish that there was NO multiplayer. It interferes with the desired direction of the game too much.

If a person wants to PvP...sure, go ahead, there's MMOs / CS / LoL / DoTA etc for you.

Now it dawned to me that it's not that I dislike DS as a whole. Maybe I dislike the archaic way the Dark Souls 1 are put together...?

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Sometimes I wish that there was NO multiplayer. It interferes with the desired direction of the game too much.

TIL this guy works at From

[SethFrost]

So basically OP wants the game to be designed in a way that he likes it, and not the way the devs want it.

[veelqnexus]

The point is you don't understand desired direction of the game. Invasions and cooperation are part of this world, gameplaywise and lorewise. You fail to comprehend it at this point because you have not explored the game enough.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Veelq:

The point is you don't understand desired direction of the game. Invasions and cooperation are part of this world, gameplaywise and lorewise. You fail to comprehend it at this point because you have not explored the game enough.

Coop ruins the "HARDCORE DIFFICULT" approach.
PvP well...doesn't have anything to do with this type of game to begin with. They could've done it via Arenas or what not.

So, yes, I don't see why those aspects are present. But I have a reasonable observation and am met by DS fan's zeal(again). Zeal, zeal, zeal, nothing but it around you guys.

[m0k]

Zeal? Look where you are right now. A Dark Souls forum. With DS players.

All you do is project your desire to hate this game. I don't understand why. The game has its flaws, but you are just hating on it for basic gameplay mechanics.

[Sillicha]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by Veelq:

The point is you don't understand desired direction of the game. Invasions and cooperation are part of this world, gameplaywise and lorewise. You fail to comprehend it at this point because you have not explored the game enough.

Coop ruins the "HARDCORE DIFFICULT" approach.
PvP well...doesn't have anything to do with this type of game to begin with. They could've done it via Arenas or what not.

So, yes, I don't see why those aspects are present. But I have a reasonable observation and am met by DS fan's zeal(again). Zeal, zeal, zeal, nothing but it around you guys.

No you have just not the slightest idea of this game. "PvP well...doesn't have anything to do with this type of game to begin with" 100% not true, its the opposite. Its belongs to this game, this is the reason the people who made this game implemented it. Oh and there is an arena.
I get the feeling you dont even understand what you say. You are not the one who decides what belongs in this world and in this game, the devs do and they made a damn good job creating this game.

Honestly, this[z0r.de] is OP in a nutshell right now.

[Groen90]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

But I have a reasonable observation

no
it's just this

Originally posted by Wulf Hunter:

Uninformed opinions vs Informed opinions by Dark Souls' Community

[MaenaZ]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Sometimes I wish that there was NO multiplayer. It interferes with the desired direction of the game too much.

If a person wants to PvP...sure, go ahead, there's MMOs / CS / LoL / DoTA etc for you.

Now it dawned to me that it's not that I dislike DS as a whole. Maybe I dislike the archaic way the Dark Souls 1 are put together...?

Because you've had so much experience with the multiplayer aspect, right?

Or the game itself for that matter. 18 hours. You've not even come close to reaching the level where you'd be able to feel what it's like when you get efficient and good enough that the past frustration times become something of a 'treasured memory'. "Wow, I really put in so much effort to get to this point, huh?" Heck, you quit at Blighttown, you don't even know the actual frustration and effort part yet, arguably.

And co-op is there precisely to alleviate your frustration (as well as further the game's lore). Until you realize co-op and invasions are opened by the same mechanic and you won't *always* be able to depend on others.