Random, crazy theory about Dark Sun Gwyndolin (spoilers?)

[Rithm Fluffderg]

I realize theories are probably done to death by now, but...

Drawing upon my knowledge of existing mythology and relying on Gwyndolin's status as an odd sort of trickster deity (using illusion to manipulate the Chosen Undead to a specific end), I had a thought.

What if he is the mother of Priscilla?

...Yeah, I know. Gwyndolin is a boy. A boy with boobies, but a boy nonetheless. But that didn't stop Loki from being the mother of Sleipnir.

My thought - way back when, Gwyndolin is still operating under the gender his father imposed on him. Seath takes an interest in him (maybe even fully aware of his status), due to his moon sorcery, and Gwyndolin, for whatever reason, has an affair with him.

Without getting into too many details, Gwyndolin probably had the necessary power to change parts of himself, probably taught to him by whatever moon goddess raised him (his mother maybe?) After all, if he was going to be a moon goddess, he had to fit the part from head to toe. (which would also explain the breasts.)

You probably know where I'm going with this, but scandal of scandals, a bastard child is born with the power of Lifedrain. Gwyndolin is forced to seal his daughter away in a painting (maybe with Velka's assistance... or something) and in his dying moments in the third game, he worries about her.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

İlk olarak Jamchow tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Zachski243 tarafından gönderildi:

You know that Gwyndolin and Gwynevere are not humans, right?

What would Gwynevere be? She only looks like she could be a giant, some kind of goddess, or human. That's still human enough for me. I don't know what Gwyndolin is, having tentacle legs.

Goddess. Same species as Gwyndolin, Gwyn, etc.

Giants are a different species, and the Giants in Dark Souls 2 are a different species to the first game's Giants.

Humans are specific - they have Dark Souls, they become Undead, and are prone to mutating when exposed to out of control Humanity (like from Manus, the progenitor of Humanity and Humankind, after he was poked and prodded until he went insane and mutated)

[Jamchow]

İlk olarak Zachski243 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Jamchow tarafından gönderildi:

What would Gwynevere be? She only looks like she could be a giant, some kind of goddess, or human. That's still human enough for me. I don't know what Gwyndolin is, having tentacle legs.

Goddess. Same species as Gwyndolin, Gwyn, etc.

Giants are a different species, and the Giants in Dark Souls 2 are a different species to the first game's Giants.

Humans are specific - they have Dark Souls, they become Undead, and are prone to mutating when exposed to out of control Humanity (like from Manus, the progenitor of Humanity and Humankind, after he was poked and prodded until he went insane and mutated)

I've almost beat DS2, I just assume that anything large and humaniod is a giant.

[zero hope >:(]

Well, this is the most inpersuasive DS lore theory since some guy proclaimed that Solaire actually searches not for his Sun, but for his son. =\

Look, if you want Seath to screw Gwyndolin that hard, you can always write one of those fanfic pairing yaoi story, or draw an according ♥♥♥ and be happy. No need pretending it to be canon tho

[Rithm Fluffderg]

İlk olarak zero ambition tarafından gönderildi:

Well, this is the most inpersuasive DS lore theory since some guy proclaimed that Solaire actually searches not for his Sun, but for his son. =\

Look, if you want Seath to screw Gwyndolin that hard, you can always write one of those fanfic pairing yaoi story, or draw an according ♥♥♥ and be happy. No need pretending it to be canon tho

Neither Gwyndolin nor Seath are my type, and I'm not even a fan of mpreg. So sorry, I know you were trying to get someone to write your wankbait for ya, but you're gonna have to ask someone else.

[zero hope >:(]

don't pretend me to like your pervert theory anyhow. it is pure bs and disgusting af.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

İlk olarak zero ambition tarafından gönderildi:

don't pretend me to like your pervert theory anyhow. it is pure bs and disgusting af.

You seem to be confused - this is the Dark Souls board, not the Delicate Snowflake board. If you're this easily offended, you're playing the wrong game series.

[zero hope >:(]

This isnt Pervert Wet Dreams board either.

You seem to have a hard time distinguishing facepalm reaction from getting offended btw.

Protip: invest some points into your INT stat, so your interpretation of both ds lore and others' reactions will be more proper.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

İlk olarak zero ambition tarafından gönderildi:

This isnt Pervert Wet Dreams board either.

You seem to have a hard time distinguishing facepalm reaction from getting offended btw.

Protip: invest some points into your INT stat, so your interpretation of both ds lore and others' reactions will be more proper.

You're protesting far too much for me to be wrong, though.

Now, if you don't have anything of value to contribute, go back to your comfort zone and keep assuring yourself of your integrity.

And learn the difference between perverted wankfiction and an uncomfortable theory grounded in real life mythology - and while you're at it, learn that just because something makes you uncomfortable doesn't make it my problem.

[MaenaZ]

İlk olarak Zachski243 tarafından gönderildi:

"Meh, it's not like I'm gonna get much better than an albino dragon with tentacles for a lower body."

Seath meanwhile wouldn't be interested in him romantically either - selfish dragon is far more interested in his moon sorcery and after noticing that Gwyndolin could, theoretically, change his body's shape to include a womb, wonders about a half-dragon half-deity child.

Then the child is born, terrifies everyone (maybe even including Gwyndolin), Seath wants to experiment on the child herself, and Gwyndolin can't bring himself to kill Priscilla, so he seals her in a painting, and forever resents Seath - a resentment which grows until it becomes a murderous rage and when Seath goes insane and Gwyndolin and Frampt work together to ensure Seath dies and his Lord Soul passes on to a pawn of an undead.

I'm kind of under the opinion that aside from his sister Yorshka and maybe Gwynevere, everyone in the kingdom referred to Gwyndolin as female *until* Gwyn linked the fire - at which point, Gwyndolin asserted himself as a male, but as he had been forced to live as a woman his entire life up until that point, he still wore the feminine clothing - and at that point, he crafted the mask which he would become famous for.

Seath would've known from the start, though, because Seath just likes to know things. "Oh, is that Gwyn's son over there?" "His daughter, a moon goddess named Gwyndolin" "A moon god, hmm? Interesting... very interesting..."

Actually, to be honest, this theory mostly came about because I was watching a theory video and noticed that Gwyndolin and Seath are *both* connected to moonlight, and in the Painted World, the moon is constantly shining on Priscilla. Then I remembered Norse mythology and my brain made the connection there.

...And as I've said, Seath and Gwyndolin have a lot in common. It's precisely why they might be attracted to each other for one moment, and also precisely why they would hate each other later.

You see, this may of course be my opinion on characters and personal interpretation, but we're talking about a guy who gives you hell for raising a hand against an illusion, considers just walking into a 'honorary' tomb blasphemy, and in general seems very much convinced his family is right and utterly awesome.

I just can't see Gwyndolin deciding his dignity can be tossed away for the purposes of draconic liasons without being actively forced into it, is all. Of course, that's just my interpretation.

I do believe there is something to be said about how Priscilla and Gwyndolin relate to one another now that we know about some new factors from part 3 of the game, it just utterly doesn't stick with my interpretation of Gwyndolin up until that point for things like this to be suggested. And since I believe most characters in Dark Souls are fairly gray of morality I really don't want to put it on Gwyn to force his son-raised-as-daughter to physically genderbend and endure motherhood with a tentacled dragon.

However, if you do believe in the parallel between Gwyndolin and Berserk's Griffith (which almost certainly is there), the latter actually does have sex with men in order to obtain stuff he wants. There is an option of Gwyndolin doing this in the early period of his attempting-to-be-a-mastermind years.

[zero hope >:(]

wankfiction

a perfect word for your theory, which doesn't have much ground in real mythology.

Gwyndolin doesn't have a power to change parts of himself. Darkmoon Blade Ring description clearly states that he had to create illusion of his sister due to his own appearance is repulsive, which means he doesnt have the power to alter himself.

Seath's interest lies on other route than the moonlight. He is obsessed with crystals because of reasons. Probably he would be more happy to screw Mr. Hat aka Logan.

In the end, Seath's phallos would just rip Gwyndolin apart due to the size difference. Gwyndolin is not immune to physical injuries (proven by a great club).

Protip: Sometimes your theories get рissed off not because they are "daring" or "uncomfortable" but because they are just a bs.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

İlk olarak MaenaZ tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Zachski243 tarafından gönderildi:

"Meh, it's not like I'm gonna get much better than an albino dragon with tentacles for a lower body."

Seath meanwhile wouldn't be interested in him romantically either - selfish dragon is far more interested in his moon sorcery and after noticing that Gwyndolin could, theoretically, change his body's shape to include a womb, wonders about a half-dragon half-deity child.

Then the child is born, terrifies everyone (maybe even including Gwyndolin), Seath wants to experiment on the child herself, and Gwyndolin can't bring himself to kill Priscilla, so he seals her in a painting, and forever resents Seath - a resentment which grows until it becomes a murderous rage and when Seath goes insane and Gwyndolin and Frampt work together to ensure Seath dies and his Lord Soul passes on to a pawn of an undead.

I'm kind of under the opinion that aside from his sister Yorshka and maybe Gwynevere, everyone in the kingdom referred to Gwyndolin as female *until* Gwyn linked the fire - at which point, Gwyndolin asserted himself as a male, but as he had been forced to live as a woman his entire life up until that point, he still wore the feminine clothing - and at that point, he crafted the mask which he would become famous for.

Seath would've known from the start, though, because Seath just likes to know things. "Oh, is that Gwyn's son over there?" "His daughter, a moon goddess named Gwyndolin" "A moon god, hmm? Interesting... very interesting..."

Actually, to be honest, this theory mostly came about because I was watching a theory video and noticed that Gwyndolin and Seath are *both* connected to moonlight, and in the Painted World, the moon is constantly shining on Priscilla. Then I remembered Norse mythology and my brain made the connection there.

...And as I've said, Seath and Gwyndolin have a lot in common. It's precisely why they might be attracted to each other for one moment, and also precisely why they would hate each other later.

You see, this may of course be my opinion on characters and personal interpretation, but we're talking about a guy who gives you hell for raising a hand against an illusion, considers just walking into a 'honorary' tomb blasphemy, and in general seems very much convinced his family is right and utterly awesome.

I just can't see Gwyndolin deciding his dignity can be tossed away for the purposes of draconic liasons without being actively forced into it, is all. Of course, that's just my interpretation.

I do believe there is something to be said about how Priscilla and Gwyndolin relate to one another now that we know about some new factors from part 3 of the game, it just utterly doesn't stick with my interpretation of Gwyndolin up until that point for things like this to be suggested. And since I believe most characters in Dark Souls are fairly gray of morality I really don't want to put it on Gwyn to force his son-raised-as-daughter to physically genderbend and endure motherhood with a tentacled dragon.

However, if you do believe in the parallel between Gwyndolin and Berserk's Griffith (which almost certainly is there), the latter actually does have sex with men in order to obtain stuff he wants. There is an option of Gwyndolin doing this in the early period of his attempting-to-be-a-mastermind years.

Fair enough. Though that last paragraph seems like an interesting idea, too. (I'm afraid I don't know much about Berserk, and I haven't exactly had the desire to check it out.)

Gwyndolin's dignity, his familial adoration, are definitely factors against this theory. I don't see any scenario in which Gwyndolin would ever actually LIKE Seath, and I'm sure whatever encounter would make him dislike him MORE. Probably would find the experience degrading, even if he's just doing it for power.

I just don't see Priscilla's mother being Gwynevere. I don't think I can put it into words other than "if Seath dared to do it with the Daughter of the Sun, especially while she's married to someone else, he wouldn't be allowed to stay in the mortal coil, let alone the Duke's Archives". I dunno about Yorshka, either, though she seems more likely than Gwynevere, in my opinion. (And to be honest it feels like there's parallels between her and Priscilla)

Odd how a Sun Goddess is more culturally acceptable than a Moon God in Anor Londo.

@zero ambition

Are you still here?

[zero hope >:(]

>are you still here?

no, i unsubbed
wish you no luck on spreading your lies.

but think out the possibility of Priscilla to be tube-born from a dragon semen, without any mother at all (that explains why she has no place in the world btw).

dragons are just too big to impregnate people in a natural way and i doubt even Gwynevere is as large as her fake illusion implies her to be

[MaenaZ]

Honestly it always struck me as Gwyn just being pompous and self-deluded (assuming he is the one who made the choice; since the official timeline is kind of wonky for these games) to raise Gwyndolin as a daughter. It kind of makes him a figure to sympathize with since he's the most loyal child to his father but apparently the least loved. First they shoot him down for having a supposedly 'feminine' aspect, then apparently Gwyn is fine with Gwynevre pretty much becoming his heir apparent.

Recently I've actually been considering the possibility that Priscilla and Gwyndolin share a mother and Yorshka is actually something Oceiros cloned/made from Seath's research, possibly to be the physical mother of Ocelotte, and Gwyndolin considers her a sister because of her 'relation' to Priscilla, since Yorshka feels like an out-of-nowhere addition to the family, as it wouldn't be beneath Gwyndolin to lie for the good of someone he considers important (he certainly lies quite a lot for the Age of Fire to continue), but that's more of a thought I was considering rather than a full-fledged theory. I mean, there has to be a reason many of Gwyndolin's dying thoughts were about someone who is almost obviously Priscilla, and the most obvious conclusion is family or lovers. And the only people who could make half-dragon hybrids that wouldn't be killed on sight are Seath and Gwyn's eldest son. Part of the reason for why I think this to be the case is that all of Gwyn's family is accounted for, except for the mother/mothers of his children. There's literally zero mention of wife/wives/concubines of Gwyn, which makes me feel like they've been written out (possibly Gwyn blaming his latest paramour for Gwyndolin's state, or possibly because said wife left him and went on to spawn a half-dragon hybrid, i.e. Yorshka/Priscilla/Both).

I feel like Seath+Gwynevre pairing was easily accepted because Gwyn trusted Seath, but I honestly can't see how Gwynevre would have the interest. Then again, we know next to nothing about actual Gwynevre's personality. Plus, it'd probably be closer to an in vitro experiment than mating anyway.

[Rithm Fluffderg]

There's also Velka to consider, since she has some form of connection to Gwyndolin, but whether it's friendly or antagonistic is literally unknown. I think at one point, it was planned for Priscilla to be Velka's daughter - or at least connected to her in some form - due to a design for her (or the character that would become her) having black feathers integrated into her clothing.

I would almost say it's possible that Velka is Gwyndolin's mother, but at the same time, Gwyndolin has white hair - even in DS1. After all, nothing says that Gwyndolin and Gwynever have to have the same mother. I think that if Gwyndolin were Velka's son, he would share her hair.

I had another idea in mind, and it fits into what we presume Gwyn would be like - Gwyn could have actually *married off* one of his unknown daughters to Seath, as part of making him a Duke.

Of course therein lies the possibility that Gwyn could have married Gwyndolin off to Seath, too... which makes Gwyndolin's story even sadder. Perhaps best not to strongly consider this one.

Unless Priscilla was born before Gwynevere married the fire god (whose name currently escapes me), I still don't see a Gwynevere x Seath event happening without either Gwyn or Gwynevere's Husband going full murder mode on Seath's scaleless ass.