Any plans for permanent power progression system?

[j0w3s]

Hi everyone,
i just started to play Gatekeeper. Its quite fun already. I think the devs did a great job.
Does somebody know if there are any plans for some form of permanent power progression. Like being able to upgrade abilities and making them more potent early on. Maybe even without a cap but it gets more and more expensive per upgrade to a point where its almost unreachable. I would love a incentive to keep on playing forever.

Just wanted to share my thoughts.

[Herozen]

the item unlocks ARE the permanent progression system. hades this is not

[pi73r]

Metaprogression based on unlocking buffs is antiroguelike.just try a different genre.

[Cryptic]

This game could be so much better with it

[Herozen]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

This game could be so much better with it

1st, why did you necro this?
2nd, this is a rogueLIKE, not a rogueLITE

Yes there is a difference
rogueLIKE: next to no form of progression or "permanent" upgrades outside of unlocking new stuff to find in runs. every run is a fresh start and you are armed with only your knowledge of what has defeated you before

rogueLITE: you slowly aquire strength and upgrades between runs to eventually defeat the game. beating the game fresh is not intended, and the grind of power is part of the gameloop

[Cryptic]

I think a bit of permanent progression in terms of boosts would be nice. The current way is only that you unlock more items which you then need to grind to buy. So don't tell me that there is no grind for power. It just feels unrewarding as many of the upgrades suck

Also, a few months ain't a necro bud. Especially after the game was essentially dead and brought a big new update the other day. The topic still applies. No sense in cluttering the forums with a copy of it.

You also didn't have to reply if it bothered you. You could have just let my post be. It would have faded into obscurity like this game did for a while

Logic.

[MasterZalm]

Originally posted by Herozen:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

This game could be so much better with it

1st, why did you necro this?
2nd, this is a rogueLIKE, not a rogueLITE

Yes there is a difference
rogueLIKE: next to no form of progression or "permanent" upgrades outside of unlocking new stuff to find in runs. every run is a fresh start and you are armed with only your knowledge of what has defeated you before

rogueLITE: you slowly aquire strength and upgrades between runs to eventually defeat the game. beating the game fresh is not intended, and the grind of power is part of the gameloop

I'm gonna necro this again, lol.

At this point, Rogue-LIKE and Rogue-LITE are interchangeable. Two of the most famous examples of this is Vampire Survivors and Hades, both games have the user tags Roguelite and Roguelike, as well as Action Roguelike.

Hades, itself, also says its a Rogue-like in its own description, despite having "strength and upgrades between runs" Vampire Survivors also calls itself a Rogue-lite in the games description. Hundreds of similar games all have similar issues, calling themselves either Rogue-LIKE or Rogue-LITE.

Mind you, Risk of Rain 2, another titan of the split genre, does not claim either title, though all three tags are popular on the game. And Dead Cells, another of the major players, calls itself a Roguelite, despite having limited upgrades between runs.

The genre, as I called it, is split. They use Lite and Like interchangeably, and there seems to be no one solid definition. Games with no progression between runs aside from unlocking more tools, and diluting the loot pool, call themselves either or, sometimes both. And games with a myriad of meta progression upgrades do the same.

Though I will agree, LITE should denote Meta Progression, LIKE should determine "tool/loot pool unlock" style progression.

Edit- Oh, another game in the genre that calls itself a LITE, but has no upgrades between runs is Gunfire Reborn. But that was back when I played it, before they had DLC and seasons. They might have meta progression now.

[Herozen]

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Herozen:

1st, why did you necro this?
2nd, this is a rogueLIKE, not a rogueLITE

Yes there is a difference
rogueLIKE: next to no form of progression or "permanent" upgrades outside of unlocking new stuff to find in runs. every run is a fresh start and you are armed with only your knowledge of what has defeated you before

rogueLITE: you slowly aquire strength and upgrades between runs to eventually defeat the game. beating the game fresh is not intended, and the grind of power is part of the gameloop

I'm gonna necro this again, lol.

At this point, Rogue-LIKE and Rogue-LITE are interchangeable. Two of the most famous examples of this is Vampire Survivors and Hades, both games have the user tags Roguelite and Roguelike, as well as Action Roguelike.

Hades, itself, also says its a Rogue-like in its own description, despite having "strength and upgrades between runs" Vampire Survivors also calls itself a Rogue-lite in the games description. Hundreds of similar games all have similar issues, calling themselves either Rogue-LIKE or Rogue-LITE.

Mind you, Risk of Rain 2, another titan of the split genre, does not claim either title, though all three tags are popular on the game. And Dead Cells, another of the major players, calls itself a Roguelite, despite having limited upgrades between runs.

The genre, as I called it, is split. They use Lite and Like interchangeably, and there seems to be no one solid definition. Games with no progression between runs aside from unlocking more tools, and diluting the loot pool, call themselves either or, sometimes both. And games with a myriad of meta progression upgrades do the same.

Though I will agree, LITE should denote Meta Progression, LIKE should determine "tool/loot pool unlock" style progression.

Edit- Oh, another game in the genre that calls itself a LITE, but has no upgrades between runs is Gunfire Reborn. But that was back when I played it, before they had DLC and seasons. They might have meta progression now.

no they absolutely are NOT interchangable. and the only reason people think they are is due to mouthbreathers like the people who put tags on those games not knowing the difference. words MEAN things. thats their entire reason for existance. this is people calling a book and a wooden deck the same thing because "they both come from trees lol", and allowing this degradation of language into meaningless slop where words mean whatever the idiot saying them wants them to mean will eventually lead to the downfall of knowledge itself. so, allow me to clarify again, so you can avoid becoming a slow, unattentive imbecile who thinks they mean that same thing

rogueLIKE: the runs are the game loop. no meta progression outside of unlocking new things to find IN RUNS. named after the original game to capitalise on the play-die-repeat-win style, Rogue, a text based roguelike that you often had to play several times to understand and beat: see RoR2, this game, etc

rogueLITE: the meta progression is the game loop. you slowly become stronger until you're able to beat the game. beating game without meta progression is nearly, or completely impossible. named due to "lite" being a word often assigned to things to show difference in scale, intensity, or power. see: both hades games, vampire survivors, literally any game that gives you "upgrades" to take into runs permanently

[MasterZalm]

Originally posted by Herozen:

no they absolutely are NOT interchangable. and the only reason people think they are is due to mouthbreathers like the people who put tags on those games not knowing the difference. words MEAN things. thats their entire reason for existance. this is people calling a book and a wooden deck the same thing because "they both come from trees lol", and allowing this degradation of language into meaningless slop where words mean whatever the idiot saying them wants them to mean will eventually lead to the downfall of knowledge itself. so, allow me to clarify again, so you can avoid becoming a slow, unattentive imbecile who thinks they mean that same thing

rogueLIKE: the runs are the game loop. no meta progression outside of unlocking new things to find IN RUNS. named after the original game to capitalise on the play-die-repeat-win style, Rogue, a text based roguelike that you often had to play several times to understand and beat: see RoR2, this game, etc

rogueLITE: the meta progression is the game loop. you slowly become stronger until you're able to beat the game. beating game without meta progression is nearly, or completely impossible. named due to "lite" being a word often assigned to things to show difference in scale, intensity, or power. see: both hades games, vampire survivors, literally any game that gives you "upgrades" to take into runs permanently

Well then you tell the devs that their description of their game is wrong(not the tags, which are user based, the actual listed description by the company that made the game). Because at this point, aside from a few people who are aggressively insistent on the separation to the point of pedantic insult slinging, companies and players alike are using whatever they feel like.

[Herozen]

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Herozen:

no they absolutely are NOT interchangable. and the only reason people think they are is due to mouthbreathers like the people who put tags on those games not knowing the difference. words MEAN things. thats their entire reason for existance. this is people calling a book and a wooden deck the same thing because "they both come from trees lol", and allowing this degradation of language into meaningless slop where words mean whatever the idiot saying them wants them to mean will eventually lead to the downfall of knowledge itself. so, allow me to clarify again, so you can avoid becoming a slow, unattentive imbecile who thinks they mean that same thing

rogueLIKE: the runs are the game loop. no meta progression outside of unlocking new things to find IN RUNS. named after the original game to capitalise on the play-die-repeat-win style, Rogue, a text based roguelike that you often had to play several times to understand and beat: see RoR2, this game, etc

rogueLITE: the meta progression is the game loop. you slowly become stronger until you're able to beat the game. beating game without meta progression is nearly, or completely impossible. named due to "lite" being a word often assigned to things to show difference in scale, intensity, or power. see: both hades games, vampire survivors, literally any game that gives you "upgrades" to take into runs permanently

Well then you tell the devs that their description of their game is wrong(not the tags, which are user based, the actual listed description by the company that made the game). Because at this point, aside from a few people who are aggressively insistent on the separation to the point of pedantic insult slinging, companies and players alike are using whatever they feel like.

thanks for showing you didn't read a single thing i've written. care to show me EXACTLY where the devs use the wrong genre name?
page desc: roguelike
game desc: roguelike
tags: roguelike
go on. i'll wait

[MasterZalm]

Originally posted by Herozen:

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Well then you tell the devs that their description of their game is wrong(not the tags, which are user based, the actual listed description by the company that made the game). Because at this point, aside from a few people who are aggressively insistent on the separation to the point of pedantic insult slinging, companies and players alike are using whatever they feel like.

thanks for showing you didn't read a single thing i've written. care to show me EXACTLY where the devs use the wrong genre name?
page desc: roguelike
game desc: roguelike
tags: roguelike
go on. i'll wait

I think you missed the part where I specifically said Hades has meta progress, which is counter to it being a LIKE, since the only progress in a LIKE is unlocks of new powers, skills, weapons, tools, etc.

LITE is the one where you have meta progress in terms of incremental upgrades that persist through runs.

Hades has these upgrades, but claims its a LIKE.

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Night

These are meta upgrades.

[Herozen]

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Herozen:

thanks for showing you didn't read a single thing i've written. care to show me EXACTLY where the devs use the wrong genre name?
page desc: roguelike
game desc: roguelike
tags: roguelike
go on. i'll wait

I think you missed the part where I specifically said Hades has meta progress, which is counter to it being a LIKE, since the only progress in a LIKE is unlocks of new powers, skills, weapons, tools, etc.

LITE is the one where you have meta progress in terms of incremental upgrades that persist through runs.

Hades has these upgrades, but claims its a LIKE.

https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Night

These are meta upgrades.

nowhere in your post did you even mention hades. I mentioned hades, and was opperating under the impression you were talking about gatekeeper

[MasterZalm]

Originally posted by Herozen:

nowhere in your post did you even mention hades. I mentioned hades, and was opperating under the impression you were talking about gatekeeper

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Hades, itself, also says its a Rogue-like in its own description, despite having "strength and upgrades between runs"

[Herozen]

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Herozen:

snip

Well then you tell the devs that their description of their game is wrong(not the tags, which are user based, the actual listed description by the company that made the game). Because at this point, aside from a few people who are aggressively insistent on the separation to the point of pedantic insult slinging, companies and players alike are using whatever they feel like.

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Herozen:

nowhere in your post did you even mention hades. I mentioned hades, and was opperating under the impression you were talking about gatekeeper

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Hades, itself, also says its a Rogue-like in its own description, despite having "strength and upgrades between runs"

nice try moving goalposts. besides, we should probably cut this. this necro has gone on long enough and i'm suprised the mods haven't nuked it yet

[MasterZalm]

I didnt move the goal posts. I explained that even popular and well known games use "incorrect terms" when it comes to the differences between LIKE and LITE when it comes to rogue style gameplay.