A Hole In The Story(some spoilers)

[BlueMug]

Why scarecrow didn't use oracle to capture batman. I mean the same way he did to robin and jim. you know before cloudburst explodes. he can just capture batman at the asylum. reveal his name then explode the cloudburst. this would happen before jason's arrival so Jason could kill batman( instead of saving him) after scarecrow reveal his name. no one could save gotham. scarecrow would WON. what are your thoughts?

[Fear2288]

That's not the point...

Scarecrow's intention (which he mentions numerous times throughout the game) is not to kill Batman. He wants to destroy him emotionally/psychologically. He wants to break him mentally. He wants to utterly erase and corrupt the legend and symbol of Batman and then top it all off with the revelation that he is a man - flesh and bone - and just as vulnerable and break-able as anyone else.

He wants to destroy Batman's soul

[BlueMug]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

That's not the point...

Scarecrow's intention (which he mentions numerous times throughout the game) is not to kill Batman. He wants to destroy him emotionally/psychologically. He wants to break him mentally. He wants to utterly erase and corrupt the legend and symbol of Batman and then top it all off with the revelation that he is a man - flesh and bone - and just as vulnerable and break-able as anyone else.

He wants to destroy Batman's soul

If you listen the audio tapes arkham knight says after you done with him I will kill him. He's better of death. or something like that but that was the idea

[Bifte]

This game suffers storywise. There are a great deal of things that don t make sense.

*Potential spoilers ahead but I will try my best to keep this spoiler free. You have been warned though.*

A) Scarecrow and Arkham Knight are working together against Batman. So, since Scarecrow doesn t want Batman dead but humiliated, why does the Arkham Knight throw everything he has at Batman to kill him? So we re talking about a villain team up with completely different goals.

B) Since Arkham Knight is well aware of who Batman is and his past, why didn t he reveal directly through a broadcast Batman's true identity? Like Scarecrow did at the end

C) How did the Arkham Knight team up with Scarecrow? Even Batman himself was unaware up to that point of Arkham Knight's existence, let alone who he really is. So did Scarecrow find the AK? Vice versa? And with what background? That's a major plot hole if you ask me!

D) Since Arkham Knight knew so well Batman, his methods, secrets and beliefs, why did he use drone tanks / aircrafts against him? If he knows Batman so well, then he knows that Batman has ONE rule: NEVER kill. So, if Batman was faced against manned tanks / aircrafts, AK would have the strategic advantage. Cause Batman would barely use the Batmobile at all. And if he hates Batman so much, in that way he would force upon him a "kill or be killed" situation which would REALLY "break" Batman's psychology and mentality. Not to mention that it would make the game itself a lot more interesting since you would have to avoid or "disable" the tanks through another way instead of going for 50+ to 1 situations which was a bit boring since it was following the same pattern. Or they could implement special sessions where the AK would let Batman know that at some points the tanks he is facing are manned. Or that one of them would be manned so that he would have to be very carefull with his shots to not kill the manned tanks, using the Batmobile's scanner. So much wasted potential...

**NEXT POINT IS MAJOR SPOILER SO AVOID IF YOU HAVEN T COMPLETED THE GAME YET!**

E) No backstory as to why Arkham Knight is alive. Nothing. You just get a little bit of origin story up to the point of death. But no mention as to how he came back to life. You have to be a Batman fan and know a few things about his story to know that.

F) That puzzling ending... whoever thought of that ending should be executed as an example if he thought that this is a proper, satisfying ending to a """"CONCLUSIVE""""" story... Not talking about the Knightfall protocol. But for the very last seconds of the ending cinematic and the "thing" that the two thugs see.

[Stormspark]

Originally posted by Ezio:

This game suffers storywise. There are a great deal of things that don t make sense.

*Potential spoilers ahead but I will try my best to keep this spoiler free. You have been warned though.*

A) Scarecrow and Arkham Knight are working together against Batman. So, since Scarecrow doesn t want Batman dead but humiliated, why does the Arkham Knight throw everything he has at Batman to kill him? So we re talking about a villain team up with completely different goals.

B) Since Arkham Knight is well aware of who Batman is and his past, why didn t he reveal directly through a broadcast Batman's true identity? Like Scarecrow did at the end

C) How did the Arkham Knight team up with Scarecrow? Even Batman himself was unaware up to that point of Arkham Knight's existence, let alone who he really is. So did Scarecrow find the AK? Vice versa? And with what background? That's a major plot hole if you ask me!

D) Since Arkham Knight knew so well Batman, his methods, secrets and beliefs, why did he use drone tanks / aircrafts against him? If he knows Batman so well, then he knows that Batman has ONE rule: NEVER kill. So, if Batman was faced against manned tanks / aircrafts, AK would have the strategic advantage. Cause Batman would barely use the Batmobile at all. And if he hates Batman so much, in that way he would force upon him a "kill or be killed" situation which would REALLY "break" Batman's psychology and mentality. Not to mention that it would make the game itself a lot more interesting since you would have to avoid or "disable" the tanks through another way instead of going for 50+ to 1 situations which was a bit boring since it was following the same pattern. Or they could implement special sessions where the AK would let Batman know that at some points the tanks he is facing are manned. Or that one of them would be manned so that he would have to be very carefull with his shots to not kill the manned tanks, using the Batmobile's scanner. So much wasted potential...

**NEXT POINT IS MAJOR SPOILER SO AVOID IF YOU HAVEN T COMPLETED THE GAME YET!**

E) No backstory as to why Arkham Knight is alive. Nothing. You just get a little bit of origin story up to the point of death. But no mention as to how he came back to life. You have to be a Batman fan and know a few things about his story to know that.

F) That puzzling ending... whoever thought of that ending should be executed as an example if he thought that this is a proper, satisfying ending to a """"CONCLUSIVE""""" story... Not talking about the Knightfall protocol. But for the very last seconds of the ending cinematic and the "thing" that the two thugs see.

A) AK provided mercenaries that Scarecrow needed. Scarecrow didn't particularly LIKE him or like working with him, but he was a necessary evil.

B) Scarecrow wanted to SHOW the world who Batman was, not just broadcast it. Anyone could take an intercom and say "Batman is x" without hijacking an entire city to do it. Scarecrow also had plans for the rest of the world with his fear toxin. The fear toxin thing in Gotham was a test, to apply to other cities later, didn't really have a whole lot to do with exposing Batman.

C) I don't know. There was a big meeting among villians that hate Batman, perhaps AK found out about it and offered mercenaries to help.

D) AK vastly underestimated how powerful the Batmobile would be. And they didn't have enough people to man the tanks. I like the idea of random manned tanks though.

E) Joker very clearly tells you during the "death" scene that he LIED about Jason's death. He faked or altered the video in some way. It turned out that Jason didn't actually die there. You're thinking of the comics. In the comics Jason died and was brought back via supernatural means. Here, Joker simply lied about killing him and faked his death in the video he sent Batman.

F) The ending is still open to speculation. Hopefully we will find out in future DLC.

[BlueMug]

Originally posted by Saerydoth:

Originally posted by Ezio:

This game suffers storywise. There are a great deal of things that don t make sense.

*Potential spoilers ahead but I will try my best to keep this spoiler free. You have been warned though.*

A) Scarecrow and Arkham Knight are working together against Batman. So, since Scarecrow doesn t want Batman dead but humiliated, why does the Arkham Knight throw everything he has at Batman to kill him? So we re talking about a villain team up with completely different goals.

B) Since Arkham Knight is well aware of who Batman is and his past, why didn t he reveal directly through a broadcast Batman's true identity? Like Scarecrow did at the end

C) How did the Arkham Knight team up with Scarecrow? Even Batman himself was unaware up to that point of Arkham Knight's existence, let alone who he really is. So did Scarecrow find the AK? Vice versa? And with what background? That's a major plot hole if you ask me!

D) Since Arkham Knight knew so well Batman, his methods, secrets and beliefs, why did he use drone tanks / aircrafts against him? If he knows Batman so well, then he knows that Batman has ONE rule: NEVER kill. So, if Batman was faced against manned tanks / aircrafts, AK would have the strategic advantage. Cause Batman would barely use the Batmobile at all. And if he hates Batman so much, in that way he would force upon him a "kill or be killed" situation which would REALLY "break" Batman's psychology and mentality. Not to mention that it would make the game itself a lot more interesting since you would have to avoid or "disable" the tanks through another way instead of going for 50+ to 1 situations which was a bit boring since it was following the same pattern. Or they could implement special sessions where the AK would let Batman know that at some points the tanks he is facing are manned. Or that one of them would be manned so that he would have to be very carefull with his shots to not kill the manned tanks, using the Batmobile's scanner. So much wasted potential...

**NEXT POINT IS MAJOR SPOILER SO AVOID IF YOU HAVEN T COMPLETED THE GAME YET!**

E) No backstory as to why Arkham Knight is alive. Nothing. You just get a little bit of origin story up to the point of death. But no mention as to how he came back to life. You have to be a Batman fan and know a few things about his story to know that.

F) That puzzling ending... whoever thought of that ending should be executed as an example if he thought that this is a proper, satisfying ending to a """"CONCLUSIVE""""" story... Not talking about the Knightfall protocol. But for the very last seconds of the ending cinematic and the "thing" that the two thugs see.

A) AK provided mercenaries that Scarecrow needed. Scarecrow didn't particularly LIKE him or like working with him, but he was a necessary evil.

B) Scarecrow wanted to SHOW the world who Batman was, not just broadcast it. Anyone could take an intercom and say "Batman is x" without hijacking an entire city to do it. Scarecrow also had plans for the rest of the world with his fear toxin. The fear toxin thing in Gotham was a test, to apply to other cities later, didn't really have a whole lot to do with exposing Batman.

C) I don't know. There was a big meeting among villians that hate Batman, perhaps AK found out about it and offered mercenaries to help.

D) AK vastly underestimated how powerful the Batmobile would be. And they didn't have enough people to man the tanks. I like the idea of random manned tanks though.

E) Joker very clearly tells you during the "death" scene that he LIED about Jason's death. He faked or altered the video in some way. It turned out that Jason didn't actually die there.

F) The ending is still open to speculation. Hopefully we will find out in future DLC.

they dont have to use manned tanks all the time but at least they can use them at the assault of GCPD to stop batman destroying the tanks

[Cyotey]

I can close the loophole for the unmanned tanks here. It's Batman. So you can bet that he would've already have thought about manned tanks and how to deal with them. And you do fight a couple of manned tanks remember?

SPOILERS
You fight Arkham Knight in the Cloudburst. The reason he gets away is because you end up hallucinating. And you fight Deathstroke as well once AK disappears after his final defeat. Neither were killed because Batman needed to know where to hit them. The battle with the Cloudburst made sense......but the battle with Deathstroke was just an incredibly lame and lazy decision on Rocksteady's part. I mean come on....we were all expecting great boss fights one on one and we didn't get that for ANY supervillain. That and the fact that Jason is the Arkham Knight with half a year of being lied to about him just really makes the story disappointing. But the story is still done well enough anyway and Jason does fit the role. As for the ending, I don't think Batman is dead. Rocksteady seems to plan on moving to other DC heroes and so I'm pretty sure at some point they'll be planning a Justice League game as well. So Batman can't be dead. But even if Rocksteady didn't have plans for other DC heroes I wouldn't think they really killed him anyway. Bruce would never just abandon Gotham as a whole like that. He's just trusting Robin and Nightwing to keep the city safe in the meantime while Bruce is also doing his part to protect the city. I'm sure there will be a plan involving a memory wipe or something. Rocksteady will find a way to make something work. It definitely won't be easy though. This is the first time I've seen Batman get unmasked.

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by TheOneWhoWons:

Originally posted by Fear2288:

That's not the point...

Scarecrow's intention (which he mentions numerous times throughout the game) is not to kill Batman. He wants to destroy him emotionally/psychologically. He wants to break him mentally. He wants to utterly erase and corrupt the legend and symbol of Batman and then top it all off with the revelation that he is a man - flesh and bone - and just as vulnerable and break-able as anyone else.

He wants to destroy Batman's soul

If you listen the audio tapes arkham knight says after you done with him I will kill him. He's better of death. or something like that but that was the idea

Batman's death is an afterthought, something that Scarecrow will allow the Knight to do AFTER he's accomplished his goals.

The little blurb you're thinking of is a conversation between Scarecrow and the Knight where he pretty much says what I did up top, and when the Knight says he wants to kill him, Scarecrow responds by more-or-less saying: "Ok, sure, but at that point killing him will be a mercy".

Scarecrow's goal IS NOT to kill Batman. Period. It is, like I said, to destroy his soul.

[BlueMug]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Originally posted by TheOneWhoWons:

If you listen the audio tapes arkham knight says after you done with him I will kill him. He's better of death. or something like that but that was the idea

Batman's death is an afterthought, something that Scarecrow will allow the Knight to do AFTER he's accomplished his goals.

The little blurb you're thinking of is a conversation between Scarecrow and the Knight where he pretty much says what I did up top, and when the Knight says he wants to kill him, Scarecrow responds by more-or-less saying: "Ok, sure, but at that point killing him will be a mercy".

Scarecrow's goal IS NOT to kill Batman. Period. It is, like I said, to destroy his soul.

(as in my theory) while batman trapped at the asylum exploding cloudburst and trap gotham in fear gas would damage his soul very much. I mean, city is trapped under fear and batman couldn't do anything but watching his city dying. then scarecrow could kill oracle in front of batman. (dramatic)

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by TheOneWhoWons:

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Batman's death is an afterthought, something that Scarecrow will allow the Knight to do AFTER he's accomplished his goals.

The little blurb you're thinking of is a conversation between Scarecrow and the Knight where he pretty much says what I did up top, and when the Knight says he wants to kill him, Scarecrow responds by more-or-less saying: "Ok, sure, but at that point killing him will be a mercy".

Scarecrow's goal IS NOT to kill Batman. Period. It is, like I said, to destroy his soul.

(as in my theory) while batman trapped at the asylum exploding cloudburst and trap gotham in fear gas would damage his soul very much. I mean, city is trapped under fear and batman couldn't do anything but watching his city dying. then scarecrow could kill oracle in front of batman. (dramatic)

You're overlooking some things though.

First, Scarecrow has the mind of a psychopath - the kind of mind we see in our real world with serial killers, mass murderers, etc. The thing, psychologically, about these kinds of people is that they're very much restricted to following their plans exactly as they envision them. So, if Scarecrow had a very specific vision for how he was going to handle Batman he's probably going to try and stick to it - even if it's detrimental to their plans or themselves. Psychopaths are psychopaths because their actions, thoughts, and emotions don't make sense or seem logical to well-balanced, "normal" people.

Second, Scarecrow has probably had enough experience with Batman to know that trying to keep him locked up for any length of time isn't going to work out well. Batman is resourceful, determined, sometimes unpredictable, and has allies like Nightwing, Robin, Gordon, etc.

[BlueMug]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Originally posted by TheOneWhoWons:

(as in my theory) while batman trapped at the asylum exploding cloudburst and trap gotham in fear gas would damage his soul very much. I mean, city is trapped under fear and batman couldn't do anything but watching his city dying. then scarecrow could kill oracle in front of batman. (dramatic)

You're overlooking some things though.

First, Scarecrow has the mind of a psychopath - the kind of mind we see in our real world with serial killers, mass murderers, etc. The thing, psychologically, about these kinds of people is that they're very much restricted to following their plans exactly as they envision them. So, if Scarecrow had a very specific vision for how he was going to handle Batman he's probably going to try and stick to it - even if it's detrimental to their plans or themselves. Psychopaths are psychopaths because their actions, thoughts, and emotions don't make sense or seem logical to well-balanced, "normal" people.

Second, Scarecrow has probably had enough experience with Batman to know that trying to keep him locked up for any length of time isn't going to work out well. Batman is resourceful, determined, sometimes unpredictable, and has allies like Nightwing, Robin, Gordon, etc.

yes he is a psychopath but brilliant too. all this occapation, seems very good to me. in arkhamverse, batman's allies can't even save themselves. nightwing kidnapped by penguin, barbara robin and gordon kidnapped by scarecrow, jason kidnapped and tortured by joker, catwoman captured by two face and riddler, even batman himself got kidnapped by harley. in arkham series they made bat family(expect batman) weak especially nightwing. he should be stronger

[Bob Vance, Vance Refrigiration]

it would be better imo if:

1) Arkham Knight is NOT Jason Todd and his identity stays secret even after...
2)... he dies. yes. batman kills the arkham knight. this is how it ends.
3) Ak stays the same badass as he is in the beginning before he starts to lose his shait
4) psychological manipulation, guys ffs we got scarecrow here. im not a huge comic book reader but it would be alot more awesome to see some fear-toxin-dillemas, manipulations, choices, questionable motives and what is more:
5) batman allies start to question them too. after all are we still the good guy? are we trying hard enough?
6) ak boss battle has 3 phases: a) tank battle yes its acceptbale here b) phase 2 c) phase 3. some kind of mix up of solomon grundy and deathstroke from previous titles.
7) deathstroke...no tank battle...at least not copied.... pls
8) tbh id prefer to have Bain as a leader but thats just personal.
9) leve design, how about we have two ways of getting into certain places? one way is batmobile way, the second one is traditional. not only it gives me a choice but also makes me wanna replay the game. its harder to design so? yeah, no ♥♥♥♥.
10) the ending, it sucks. if you think different i respect your opinion but its retarded. how id like to see it? id like it to be batman riding his batmobile to the gates of valhalla like. our allies abandoned us, our enemies kicked our ass hard. fire everywhere, epic music and batman pulling this one crazy ass stunt where he actually still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wins. skill, planning and unbroken will.
and no, no miracle cutscene where batman gets dead sick but not really.
11) oracle dies
12) no riddles in stags airship. ♥♥♥♥ this place.

[BlueMug]

Originally posted by Gravewalker:

it would be better imo if:

1) Arkham Knight is NOT Jason Todd and his identity stays secret even after...
2)... he dies. yes. batman kills the arkham knight. this is how it ends.
3) Ak stays the same badass as he is in the beginning before he starts to lose his shait
4) psychological manipulation, guys ffs we got scarecrow here. im not a huge comic book reader but it would be alot more awesome to see some fear-toxin-dillemas, manipulations, choices, questionable motives and what is more:
5) batman allies start to question them too. after all are we still the good guy? are we trying hard enough?
6) ak boss battle has 3 phases: a) tank battle yes its acceptbale here b) phase 2 c) phase 3. some kind of mix up of solomon grundy and deathstroke from previous titles.
7) deathstroke...no tank battle...at least not copied.... pls
8) tbh id prefer to have Bain as a leader but thats just personal.
9) leve design, how about we have two ways of getting into certain places? one way is batmobile way, the second one is traditional. not only it gives me a choice but also makes me wanna replay the game. its harder to design so? yeah, no ♥♥♥♥.
10) the ending, it sucks. if you think different i respect your opinion but its retarded. how id like to see it? id like it to be batman riding his batmobile to the gates of valhalla like. our allies abandoned us, our enemies kicked our ass hard. fire everywhere, epic music and batman pulling this one crazy ass stunt where he actually still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wins. skill, planning and unbroken will.
and no, no miracle cutscene where batman gets dead sick but not really.
11) oracle dies
12) no riddles in stags airship. ♥♥♥♥ this place.

number 9 is very correct

[Bob Vance, Vance Refrigiration]

Originally posted by TheOneWhoWons:

Originally posted by Gravewalker:

it would be better imo if:

1) Arkham Knight is NOT Jason Todd and his identity stays secret even after...
2)... he dies. yes. batman kills the arkham knight. this is how it ends.
3) Ak stays the same badass as he is in the beginning before he starts to lose his shait
4) psychological manipulation, guys ffs we got scarecrow here. im not a huge comic book reader but it would be alot more awesome to see some fear-toxin-dillemas, manipulations, choices, questionable motives and what is more:
5) batman allies start to question them too. after all are we still the good guy? are we trying hard enough?
6) ak boss battle has 3 phases: a) tank battle yes its acceptbale here b) phase 2 c) phase 3. some kind of mix up of solomon grundy and deathstroke from previous titles.
7) deathstroke...no tank battle...at least not copied.... pls
8) tbh id prefer to have Bain as a leader but thats just personal.
9) leve design, how about we have two ways of getting into certain places? one way is batmobile way, the second one is traditional. not only it gives me a choice but also makes me wanna replay the game. its harder to design so? yeah, no ♥♥♥♥.
10) the ending, it sucks. if you think different i respect your opinion but its retarded. how id like to see it? id like it to be batman riding his batmobile to the gates of valhalla like. our allies abandoned us, our enemies kicked our ass hard. fire everywhere, epic music and batman pulling this one crazy ass stunt where he actually still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wins. skill, planning and unbroken will.
and no, no miracle cutscene where batman gets dead sick but not really.
11) oracle dies
12) no riddles in stags airship. ♥♥♥♥ this place.

number 9 is very correct

thx <3

[Cyotey]

They definitely should've mixed the story up much more than they did. And they most definitely should've had your allies fight with you. Not just on the side missions. Scarecrow planned on something massive and Batman while not exactly willing to get help, needed it. When I first played, I expected near the end to see Catwoman (unless you didn't save her), Nightwing and Robin to all take part in trying to take Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight down. I also expected a near death experience with Batman. Not like in Arkham City, but an actual near death experience. One that would render him unusable for a set period and you'd need to use the other 3 to try and rescue him. And I think it would've been most interesting to have Nightwing and Catwoman both taken down leaving all the pressure on Robin to save them all. Why? It'd be really cool to see Robin in the spotlight for once and prove that he can be as equally good as Batman. Yeah, he rescues Batman in AC but Harley is an idiot and a pushover. That doesn't prove a thing. I also was hoping for a big grand finale fight where you would have to worry about all of the villains coming together at once and have Batman and the rest just have one crazy battle with them all. Then pick them off until Scarecrow and AK are left and have a trio vs dual battle with the AK's army. That would have been an amazing end.