Riddler Trophies

[sigina ✝]

I'm aware that Arkham City had twice the amount, but why so many trophies cluttered all over these games? Couldn’t they just have like 10 or 20 real challenging riddles?

[LHGreen]

They'd have to be intelligent enough to make those riddles in the first place, though.

[BAZ]

240 is not that much to be honest...i mean it does take a little bit of time sure but that does not make it worst plus some are fun to do

[sigina ✝]

Originally posted by BAZ:

240 is not that much to be honest...i mean it does take a little bit of time sure but that does not make it worst plus some are fun to do

I guess I just don’t have as much time on my hands as I used to.

[MASTAN]

It's not bad if you casually solve riddles nearby now and then. But if you leave all of them for later then I guess it can become tedious in the end.

[gps]

I think the biggest mistake many people make is they want to 100% it asap, get all the achievements - and then just move on. This can be really frustrating with the Riddler stuff and also the AR challenges. On the other hand I have come back to the Arkham games so many times, to get my Batman fix, replaying AR or just sightseeing around the open world - I would not mind a few more Riddler trophies to collect from time to time.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by gps:

I think the biggest mistake many people make is they want to 100% it asap, get all the achievements - and then just move on. This can be really frustrating with the Riddler stuff and also the AR challenges. On the other hand I have come back to the Arkham games so many times, to get my Batman fix, replaying AR or just sightseeing around the open world - I would not mind a few more Riddler trophies to collect from time to time.

I think I'd prefer actual riddles and puzzles to solve. Which these games rarely have.

[MASTAN]

Actual puzzles would be too complex for casual gamer and ward off many people imo.
Better play specific puzzle games for that.

[gps]

I don't know - OK, not all of them are rocket science or require Nobel price intellect. But some of them absolutely need very precious timing, clever gadet use and/or thinking out of the box. But then again these days everyone seems to be a critic... ;)

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by MASTAN:

Actual puzzles would be too complex for casual gamer and ward off many people imo.
Better play specific puzzle games for that.

The people it wards off aren't gonna be playing a Batman game, anyway. It alienates fans to give them a Batman game and not let them actually be Batman and do the stuff he'd do.

Originally posted by gps:

I don't know - OK, not all of them are rocket science or require Nobel price intellect. But some of them absolutely need very precious timing, clever gadet use and/or thinking out of the box.

Few of them. Not some of them, few of them. And that first thing is a physical challenge, not a mental one, so I don't see how it counts as a "puzzle". It's more like just a task. As for the other two, this game does at least have more of that than the others, but it's still only okay.

[gps]

I guess that's OK for me. Not sure why you seem to have made it your mission to convince people who played and liked the games how mediocre they are. The games and the people...

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by gps:

I guess that's OK for me. Not sure why you seem to have made it your mission to convince people who played and liked the games how mediocre they are. The games and the people...

I didn't, I'm just complaining about it. Arguing doesn't happen unless people contradict me.

Anyway, I'm just used to much, MUCH better, both from video games and from Batman stuff.

[gps]

I don't know. I never read comics as a kid, because the ratio reading time vs. price was a bit low for me, I prefered "real" books. So I would consider myself rather unbiased. But over the last couple of years I've gone through more than a meter thick pile of Batman comics, including all the most beloved, successfull and recommended titles. And I am still looking for the really intellectual stuff there, that goes way beyond the Arkham games and is so much better, more intelligent storytelling - which you always refer to.
They say ficticious characters can only ever be as clever as the writer creating them. And I have all the respect for comic book writers, they do a good and respectable job in what the do. But none of them seems to be a real genius, otherwise they would not write comic books for a living, maybe they would try to solve some of the really big problems of humankind instead. So let's not put them on too high a pedestal. All they do is writing cheap comic books for kids and young adults. Nothing more, nothing less - and from my humble pov the Arkham games spretty much NAIL that intellectual level...

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by gps:

I don't know. I never read comics as a kid

Me neither. But I watched the shows and the movies, and I can only think of a few that didn't do it better than they did it here. Even the crazy stuff in the 60's were at least actual riddles.

Originally posted by gps:

I am still looking for the really intellectual stuff there, that goes way beyond the Arkham games and is so much better, more intelligent storytelling

TKJ, AA:aSHoSE, WHttCC, B:Y1, that's the comics I can think of off the top of my head. As for other things, there's most episodes of B:tAS (something else these games were trading off the goodwill of), the Justice League series from the '00s, the Burton and Nolan movies, and at least as far as the first game goes, I'd say even Batman Forever is better and smarter story-wise (much less serious, but just slightly smarter), and, just to get back on topic, it has much better riddles and mental puzzles, too. City and Knight managed to get up to Forever's level in terms of the riddles on a few occasions, though, and their stories are much better.

But again, that particular comparison was mostly just for Asylum, the first game, which most of the following games managed to surpass in several ways, and sometimes by quite a lot.

And I'd say Knight's story is probably the best of them, even with the stupid "poisoned Joker blood makes you Joker" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. A literal ghost might have actually been better.

Originally posted by gps:

They say ficticious characters can only ever be as clever as the writer creating them.

That's very true and very unfortunate. That's why it's dangerous to try writing such stories, and probably why people love it so much when those stories are done well. Which creates a vicious cycle of supply not being able to meet demand. Then writers realize you don't have to be smart, you just have to be smarter than the audience, and if you cultivate them right, most of them'll be idiots. So we see stuff that's good, and stuff that's not so good.

Originally posted by gps:

But none of them seems to be a real genius, otherwise they would not write comic books for a living, maybe they would try to solve some of the really big problems of humankind instead.

There's different kinds of intelligence and different kinds of genius. They aren't all suited to solving world hunger, or curing cancer, or fixing global climate change, or colonizing space. Some are just good for telling a story or writing a piece of music. And that's before factoring in that they aren't all geniuses, nor do they have to be. Some are just brilliant, some are just really smart. And there are even some people who are are only good at their chosen area of expertise, and complete idiots when it comes to everything else. We often call those people "doctors". Well, "surgeons", at any rate. But still, that's how we get guys like Ben Carson.

Originally posted by gps:

let's not put them on too high a pedestal.

I'm not putting them on a pedestal, I'm just expecting a bare minimum of effort from them.

Originally posted by gps:

from my humble pov the Arkham games spretty much NAIL that intellectual level...

The fact that they ARE low effort and you could ♥♥♥♥ out the script in your sleep (more true of some of these games than others, granted) doesn't mean they SHOULD be. As for writing for kids, they did that with the Lego DC stuff, yes. But if they wanted that here, they should have toned some of this stuff WAY down! There's henchmen making rape jokes!

[gps]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

TKJ

Check. But beyond the innovative (for the eighties) darkness, violence and added shock effects - where's the intellect here? It's the same old "stick to the law no matter what" cliche we have in decades of other Batman stuff. That Batman laughs in the end? Yeah, that's probably intelligent... ;)

Originally posted by LHGreen:

AA:aSHoSE

Check. That one sure was interesting. Lots of symbolism, lots of confusing and great artwork. Yes, it has it's moments - but was the story really that much better (in terms of intelligence) than the video game story? Would it even be possible to put that story into a video game?

Originally posted by LHGreen:

As for other things, there's most episodes of B:tAS (something else these games were trading off the goodwill of), the Justice League series from the '00s,

Interesting you bring up those again, with Paul Dini actually writing for both DCAU and Asylum/City. And yes I know - in the three or four years between JLU and Asylum he lost it all and went from intelligent writer to total moron... ;)
Btw. yes, there are a lot of great episodes in there - but there's also duds like the one with the crazy subterranean farmer. Never forget that!