Batman™: Arkham Knight

Batman™: Arkham Knight

Statistiche:
(SPOILERS!!!!!) Ra's al Ghul choice.
Did you give him the cure or did you destroy the Lazarus Machine?

I personally destroyed the Lazarus Machine because it just felt right and he, technically, didn't let him die. If anything, Isn't Batman granting Ra's wish? All he really was now was just a man who had nothing left and was consumed with hate.
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Messaggio originale di The Brown Hornet:
Messaggio originale di Lac3y:
Saved Ra's because it was the Batman thing to do. Batman doesn't kill. And the developer's punished you for choosing that, which really pissed me off.
Agreed
What did you think was going to happen? What should have happened? We all know Ra's wasn't going to get up and make a vow of pacifism. He's a murderous zealot that funded a super-prison that ended up being used to murder thousands of prisoners. He held his own daughter hostage at knifepoint to try and make Batman do what he wanted him to do.
Keep doing the same thing, you get the same result.
You keep Ra's alive, he will keep killing. He will kill anyone in his way, especially traitors.
Messaggio originale di A.M.R.:
Batman Begins 2005 : "I won't kill you... but I don't have to save you."
Damn, I was about to quote this, lol.
Messaggio originale di Cipher:
Messaggio originale di A.M.R.:
Batman Begins 2005 : "I won't kill you... but I don't have to save you."
Damn, I was about to quote this, lol.

Said the same thing
I wanna add my two cents to this discussion, because there are some things that some of you hadn't mentioned starting with...

"Well, Batman would have given Joker the cure in Arkham City, so the same logic should be applied here".

It would seem that way, BUT in Arkham Knight it's heavily hinted that Batman was going to let him die. He only said he was going to save him, because he didn't want to admit that the Joker had won and pushed him over the edge.

Source: https://youtu.be/1UxzfByJ3iw?t=710 (skip to 11:50)

Also, I would like to argument that the whole game is about the death of Batman. However, it's not a literal death of him, but the death of the myth of Batman.

Batman has been fighting crime for too long - criminals no longer fear him as much, his number of Nemeses keeps increasing and the stakes just keep getting higher and higher. His legend is not as powerful as it used to be.

He realizes his myth, his morals and his rules are no longer enough to defend Gotham, not with an organized army with a personal vendetta against him. Letting Ra's die is one of the moments, that contributes to the death of Batman - he knows that Ra's death will save Gotham the League of Assassins, but he realizes that he is breaking what Batman stands for. His myth was once the guardian of Gotham, but now it is because of him that Gotham is in danger.
I wanna add my two cents to this discussion, because there are some things that some of you hadn't mentioned starting with...

"Well, Batman would have given Joker the cure in Arkham City, so the same logic should be applied here".

It would seem that way, BUT in Arkham Knight it's heavily hinted that Batman was going to let him die. He only said he was going to save him, because he didn't want to admit that the Joker had won and pushed him over the edge.

Source: https://youtu.be/1UxzfByJ3iw?t=710 (skip to 11:50)

Also, I would like to argument that the whole game is about the death of Batman. However, it's not a literal death of him, but the death of the myth of Batman.

Batman has been fighting crime for too long - criminals no longer fear him as much, his number of Nemeses keeps increasing and the stakes just keep getting higher and higher. His legend is not as powerful as it used to be. He realizes his myth, his morals and his rules are no longer enough to defend Gotham from the criminals, who grow bolder and more hateful of him. "As his world grew darker, so did ours. When his life ended, ours could begin anew".

Letting Ra's die is one of the moments, that contributes to the death of Batman - he knows that Ra's death will save Gotham from the League of Assassins, but he realizes that he is breaking what Batman stands for. He himself is putting a nail in the coffin of Batman.
Ultima modifica da Motor; 11 ott 2018, ore 5:50
I let him die because I was hoping I would get a chance to sleep with his daughter.
"Honesty IS the best policy."
I would agree with the arguements for destroying the machine, seeing as how Bats says that he would in Arkham City. However, in that same setting, just before Ra's jumps in the pit to start the boss fight, he asks Batman to kill him, to which he replies "I will never kill. Not even you."
I destroyed the machine, which FELT like the right thing to do, but I gotta say, Ra's softly whispering the words

"Proud of you"

before dying really made me question my decision. They really got me up good. What an exceptionally well-written conflict for a Batman story.
I saved him cuz it's how I understand Batman in these games.

I must disagree with one thing repeated many times in this thread. Destroying life support device is not simply "not helping". It's not like Ra's is brain dead at the moment, he is councious and therefore actively destroying his life support machine is in fact much closer to the act of killing rather than not helping. Not helping option would be not giving him the medicine neither destroying the machine. Unfortunately it's impossible to choose that combination.
Messaggio originale di Borgoth:
I saved him cuz it's how I understand Batman in these games.

I must disagree with one thing repeated many times in this thread. Destroying life support device is not simply "not helping". It's not like Ra's is brain dead at the moment, he is councious and therefore actively destroying his life support machine is in fact much closer to the act of killing rather than not helping. Not helping option would be not giving him the medicine neither destroying the machine. Unfortunately it's impossible to choose that combination.

And yet when you destroy his machine, Ra actually thanks Batman. Even if you would leave him to die, he would still die.Destroying the machine would even be merciful. Not saving him is not the same as killing him.
Well... the Punisher kills bad guys. The Punisher always finds new bad guys to kill. I like the Punisher.

Btw even Ra's al Ghul himself says "Proud about you" to Batman after you put him into the storage of your nasty pets zoo. Also he not is dying. So no one knows when he dies. You just put an old man from what you have taken the immortality into the prison.

If you give him the cure you create a monster and the dead of Ra's daughter is passively your fault.
Messaggio originale di Uncle:
Well... the Punisher kills bad guys. The Punisher always finds new bad guys to kill. I like the Punisher.

Btw even Ra's al Ghul himself says "Proud about you" to Batman after you put him into the storage of your nasty pets zoo. Also he not is dying. So no one knows when he dies. You just put an old man from what you have taken the immortality into the prison.

If you give him the cure you create a monster and the dead of Ra's daughter is passively your fault.

Ghul already wanted to end himself in City and let Batman take over. He himself does not want to continue.
sorry for reviving this thing (heh) but i too destroyed the cure and killed ra's. not only that, lately i've noticed that i'm actually starting to HATE batman's moral high ground. he keeps claiming that he never kills but, in reality, he DOES. all the people killed by the joker, the mad hatter, two face, scarecrow and basically every villain besides KITEMAN are on batman. he claims that every life matters but in going out of his way to actually save those criminals he is proving that, to HIM, the lives of the hundreds of civilians killed in the games are worth less than a joker to him
Messaggio originale di Capitan_Spoiler:
sorry for reviving this thing (heh) but i too destroyed the cure and killed ra's. not only that, lately i've noticed that i'm actually starting to HATE batman's moral high ground. he keeps claiming that he never kills but, in reality, he DOES. all the people killed by the joker, the mad hatter, two face, scarecrow and basically every villain besides KITEMAN are on batman. he claims that every life matters but in going out of his way to actually save those criminals he is proving that, to HIM, the lives of the hundreds of civilians killed in the games are worth less than a joker to him

That's not quite how it works though. If a doctor saves a murderer the doctor is still not responsible for the murders.
But I think people these games bit too seriously, if the police were even normally competent then none of the supervillians would even escape. In reality there would be no need for a Batman.
Besides, who would care about a Batman when there is superman?
Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:
Messaggio originale di Capitan_Spoiler:
sorry for reviving this thing (heh) but i too destroyed the cure and killed ra's. not only that, lately i've noticed that i'm actually starting to HATE batman's moral high ground. he keeps claiming that he never kills but, in reality, he DOES. all the people killed by the joker, the mad hatter, two face, scarecrow and basically every villain besides KITEMAN are on batman. he claims that every life matters but in going out of his way to actually save those criminals he is proving that, to HIM, the lives of the hundreds of civilians killed in the games are worth less than a joker to him

That's not quite how it works though. If a doctor saves a murderer the doctor is still not responsible for the murders.
But I think people these games bit too seriously, if the police were even normally competent then none of the supervillians would even escape. In reality there would be no need for a Batman.
Besides, who would care about a Batman when there is superman?


well, yes and no. FIRST OFF: a doctor's job is to save a life, no matter what. BATMAN'S job is to prevent criminals to do their thing, so he is miserably failing at his job every time scarecrow sets off something like the diner at the beginning of the game.
SECOND: it's not a matter of taking things too seriously, it's about pointing out crappy writing.
if we were still back in the day, when every time a villain escaped they robbed a bank or injuried someone or, hell, killed a couple of people at most. yeah, batman would have all the right in the world to say "i don't kill". but when you start with the stuff portrayed in these games, having hundreds of deaths because of ONE guy...no. just no. by this time, the entire nation should have passed a law stating that the death row would be issued for those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
you also need to keep in mind that batman is not the same as he once was. he is FAR MORE RICH NOW. he could easily fix a lot of problems by just creating more jobs, removing people from the streets and cutting down the number of thugs the supervillains would have (i seriously doubt that common thugs would prefer being hospitalized every 3-4 months rather than having a simple but honest job).
Yes, every life is important and yes, batman shouldn't go around being the punisher but for christ's sake, he can't keep lecturing people from his million dollar moral high ground.
the time have changed and the writers have gotten worse. nowadays batman is becoming a joke. anyone with a lick of sense would see that there is no saving the joker, the riddler or the mad hatter. those people are crazy, will never be cured and are only a danger to society, so they should be permanently removed.
what's worse is that the real reason for batman's "rule" isn't morality. it's so that the writers don't have to come up with a new villain every week. which is sad
Ultima modifica da Spencer D. Pootis; 30 gen 2021, ore 7:44
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Data di pubblicazione: 26 dic 2015, ore 12:43
Messaggi: 80