True Ending = I don't understand

[Diabolicus]

Someone explain the ending?

[Diabolicus]

Messaggio originale di Carlos Mendez:

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

It explains everything. The clues are there all the way through the game, Batman is not enough, he needs a to re-invent himself. And he does. This will also free himself from getting his many allies in trouble because they worked with Batman.

Again and again it is said in the game, in the last video by Gordon twice that fear is a needed component to keep the crooks in line.

We don't get to play as the nightmare batman, but who kows we might in the next game. Rocksteady said that the story of Batman will be over for them, they won't be making more in the Arkham series, however Nightmare Batman is not "normal" Batman.

Personally i wouldn't mind a red hood or deathstroke game instead. Both are great characters and one of them is stronger, faster, smarter than batman and is also willing to get his hands dirty. Well both of them are willing but deathstroke is op lore wise.

Yeah i want too playable character evil too.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

It explains everything. The clues are there all the way through the game, Batman is not enough, he needs a to re-invent himself. And he does. This will also free himself from getting his many allies in trouble because they worked with Batman.

Again and again it is said in the game, in the last video by Gordon twice that fear is a needed component to keep the crooks in line.

We don't get to play as the nightmare batman, but who kows we might in the next game. Rocksteady said that the story of Batman will be over for them, they won't be making more in the Arkham series, however Nightmare Batman is not "normal" Batman.

You forget one thing, if it's Batman reborn, no tactics he uses will really make criminals fear him unless he starts killing them, and Batman will never do that. He never kills anyone, and he never stoops to using tactics of criminals, so I highly doubt he'll use fear toxin either.

Only time he ever used fear toxin in Arkham Knight was on Scarecrow at the end, and that was to escape his grasp and give him a taste of his own medicine. It would ruin the franchise though if they turned Batman into a glorified Scarecrow. It needs to be more creative (heroic) than that.

The only thing that makes sense is Azrael being tricked by Saint Dumas into posing as Batman, and using fear toxin, and Batman covertly taking down the criminals, and eventually Azrael. Some of the public might think it's Batman's wraith, but they won't believe Batman is alive.

[Stormspark]

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

It explains everything. The clues are there all the way through the game, Batman is not enough, he needs a to re-invent himself. And he does. This will also free himself from getting his many allies in trouble because they worked with Batman.

Again and again it is said in the game, in the last video by Gordon twice that fear is a needed component to keep the crooks in line.

We don't get to play as the nightmare batman, but who kows we might in the next game. Rocksteady said that the story of Batman will be over for them, they won't be making more in the Arkham series, however Nightmare Batman is not "normal" Batman.

You forget one thing, if it's Batman reborn, no tactics he uses will really make criminals fear him unless he starts killing them, and Batman will never do that. He never kills anyone, and he never stoops to using tactics of criminals, so I highly doubt he'll use fear toxin either.

Only time he ever used fear toxin in Arkham Knight was on Scarecrow at the end, and that was to escape his grasp and give him a taste of his own medicine. It would ruin the franchise though if they turned Batman into a glorified Scarecrow. It needs to be more creative (heroic) than that.

The only thing that makes sense is Azrael being tricked by Saint Dumas into posing as Batman, and using fear toxin, and Batman covertly taking down the criminals, and eventually Azrael. Some of the public might think it's Batman's wraith, but they won't believe Batman is alive.

We don't know what Batman will do as Nightmare Batman. I assume he will not go around the city stopping every crime, because he HAS to be an urban legend now. Noone can believe he really exists or people will figure out Bruce survived. He will probably use the fear toxin to drive criminals completely insane, so that nothing they say can be trusted or believed. He won't technically "kill" them but they will probably be vegetables afterward.

I assume he will only appear when it's REALLY REALLY necessary, and do something (probably by driving people insane with modified fear toxin) to make sure that noone believes it was real.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di Saerydoth:

We don't know what Batman will do as Nightmare Batman. I assume he will not go around the city stopping every crime, because he HAS to be an urban legend now. Noone can believe he really exists or people will figure out Bruce survived. He will probably use the fear toxin to drive criminals completely insane, so that nothing they say can be trusted or believed. He won't technically "kill" them but they will probably be vegetables afterward.

I assume he will only appear when it's REALLY REALLY necessary, and do something (probably by driving people insane with modified fear toxin) to make sure that noone believes it was real.

First off, I don't agree he's intending on being "Nightmare Batman", or that the end of the Knightfall Protocol was even showing him as the fiery bat.

Secondly, literally every game in the series has had a scenario of civilian evacuation, so it wouldn't be hard to stay covert.

Thirdly, your analogy of him using the fear toxin brings up another reason why he wouldn't likely do such a thing. It doesn't just make people fear, it often drives them permanently insane, and that goes against his code of hurting people.

If they were to write it such a way, it wouldn't even BE Batman anymore, and he would be just another criminal, with no code to follow.

[halbermensch999]

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

It explains everything. The clues are there all the way through the game, Batman is not enough, he needs a to re-invent himself. And he does. This will also free himself from getting his many allies in trouble because they worked with Batman.

Again and again it is said in the game, in the last video by Gordon twice that fear is a needed component to keep the crooks in line.

We don't get to play as the nightmare batman, but who kows we might in the next game. Rocksteady said that the story of Batman will be over for them, they won't be making more in the Arkham series, however Nightmare Batman is not "normal" Batman.

You forget one thing, if it's Batman reborn, no tactics he uses will really make criminals fear him unless he starts killing them, and Batman will never do that. He never kills anyone, and he never stoops to using tactics of criminals, so I highly doubt he'll use fear toxin either.

Only time he ever used fear toxin in Arkham Knight was on Scarecrow at the end, and that was to escape his grasp and give him a taste of his own medicine. It would ruin the franchise though if they turned Batman into a glorified Scarecrow. It needs to be more creative (heroic) than that.

The only thing that makes sense is Azrael being tricked by Saint Dumas into posing as Batman, and using fear toxin, and Batman covertly taking down the criminals, and eventually Azrael. Some of the public might think it's Batman's wraith, but they won't believe Batman is alive.

He doesn't need to kill anyone.. feargas plus the old Batman combined does the trick.
Notice just how nuts a lot the bad guys become once they have inhaled it?
There's no immunity against it.

You can notice how the level of fear is vanishing as time passes by. In Origins there is often nothing at all, because they do not know Batman, but his legend builds up and vanes in Knight, people have gotten used to him and his presence.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

He doesn't need to kill anyone.. feargas plus the old Batman combined does the trick.

Missed my point entirely. Many would argue permanently rendering someone insane is a fate worse than death. It's not Batman's way to do such things.

[ShikenNuggets]

Messaggio originale di Saerydoth:

He will probably use the fear toxin to drive criminals completely insane, so that nothing they say can be trusted or believed. He won't technically "kill" them but they will probably be vegetables afterward.

I don't think that's what's going on. He's probably using a much less potent version of the fear toxin that would only have a temporary effect. He may have to be more intense and brutal than he was before, but he still has his code. Permanently disabling someone or driving them permanently insane is something he would generally tend to avoid.

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Secondly, literally every game in the series has had a scenario of civilian evacuation

They've all had civilians absent (with the exception of Asylum, which had doctors, security guards, etc), but Arkham Knight was the only one that had a full-on evacuation. Arkham City was a prison facility, and Origins was a city-wide curfew.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di ShikenNuggets:

...with the exception of Asylum, which had doctors, security guards, etc...

Not really the same as civvies. Plus you don't see civvies while dealing with thugs, except for a few rescue missions. By your own analogy you're wrong too. If you're going to call docs, security guards, etc, civvies, you may as well call the firefighters of AK civvies, in which case it wouldn't even be an evac situation either.

[ShikenNuggets]

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Not really the same as civvies.

How are the doctors not civilains? I could understand the security guards not being counted, but doctors?

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Plus you don't see civvies while dealing with thugs

Well, not alive ones, anyway.

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

If you're going to call docs, security guards, etc, civvies, you may as well call the firefighters of AK civvies

That could be argued, but there was still an evacuation. What I meant was that the other games didn't have an actual evacuation, only Arkham Knight did.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di ShikenNuggets:

How are the doctors not civilains? I could understand the security guards not being counted, but doctors?

Doctors are public service workers that take care of civilians, especially in times of emergency. They are a cut above regular civilians, just like the firefighters in AK. It would make more sense to argue security guards as being civilians really, since the cops are the ones that deal with the thugs. All security guards do is guard property.

That could be argued, but there was still an evacuation. What I meant was that the other games didn't have an actual evacuation, only Arkham Knight did.

It doesn't really matter whether the devs write evac in the storyline, because 99% of the people present in every game in this series is thugs, not civilians. That's my main point.

All Batman really needs to do to stay covert is not report to the police, and avoid being seen by the very few public service workers and hostages in the game. Not exactly rocket science for someone so good at stealth.

[ShikenNuggets]

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Doctors are public service workers that take care of civilians, especially in times of emergency.

Medical doctors, sure, but most of the doctors on the island would be psychiatrists or psychologists. I would consider those civilians.

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

It would make more sense to argue security guards as being civilians really, since the cops are the ones that deal with the thugs. All security guards do is guard property.

You realize you sort of just invalidated your own point, right?

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

It doesn't really matter whether the devs write evac in the storyline, because 99% of the people present in every game in this series is thugs, not civilians.

This is true, but it's beside the point I was trying to make.

[Dr Doctor]

I read 2 theories about the ending: one is where Batman uses Scarecrow's fear toxin against the criminals (he modifies it so it's a lot less lethal, of course) so that way he can protect the city without being seen now that the world thinks he's dead, and the other theory is that the ending was a metaphor; everyone now knows Batman came to be because of some criminal killing his parents, so the bad guys will think twice before committing a crime (probably why that scene with the family being mugged was practically a copy of Bruce's family being murdered). I'd say the first theory would make more sense though. When Batman injected Scarecrow with his own toxin, he saw Nightmare Batman just like the two criminals in that alleyway. Batman has become a symbol of fear to the bad guys, so if the fear toxin theory is true, it'd make sense that they'd see Batman as their worst fear.

[ShikenNuggets]

Messaggio originale di Dr Doctor:

the other theory is that the ending was a metaphor; everyone now knows Batman came to be because of some criminal killing his parents, so the bad guys will think twice before committing a crime (probably why that scene with the family being mugged was practically a copy of Bruce's family being murdered).

I wouldn't really consider this a viable theory ("it didn't actually happen" or "it was all a dream" type theories tend to lack substance and creativity), but it's not necessarily wrong. That scene does represent Batman's continued existence, both literally and metaphorically. Bruce Wayne may be gone, but Batman is more than just a man, it's a symbol. To the innocent, it's a symbol of hope, and to the guilty, a symbol of fear. Even if he is truly gone, his legend lives on in the minds of the people of Gotham.

[halbermensch999]

Messaggio originale di Frag Maniac:

Messaggio originale di halbermensch999:

He doesn't need to kill anyone.. feargas plus the old Batman combined does the trick.

Missed my point entirely. Many would argue permanently rendering someone insane is a fate worse than death. It's not Batman's way to do such things.

Scarecrow gassed a large part of the city, but none became mad for life (with the exception of many scarecrow himself). As soon as Poison Ivy's plants did their work things started slowly to get back to normal. You didn't enter the Riddler's house only to find catwoman being complely mad, she was her normal self. Heck, she doesn't even comment on the whole event.

And as it has been mentioned, since Batman has tools to analyze the toxins surely he has the power to modify it too.

None of the other "heroes" in Batman are up to the task either, they're nowhere near the competence of the Bat.

[Frag Maniac]

Messaggio originale di ShikenNuggets:

Medical doctors, sure, but most of the doctors on the island would be psychiatrists or psychologists. I would consider those civilians.

There are very few psychiatrists present, and they are every bit as much needed if not more so to control the chaos, especially with so many civvies being affected by fear toxin.

You realize you sort of just invalidated your own point, right?

Actually I was speaking on YOUR calling them civvies. My stance is that they aren't. I merely stated they are less necessary than doctors for the purposes of helping civilians. The fact is, YOU were the one that contradicted yourself by implying they aren't civvies.

This is true, but it's beside the point I was trying to make.

It's not besides MY point though, which you seem to be oblivious of when arguing civilians with me. You just made it clear you only think about your own points when having a discussion, which isn't really a discussion at that point.