[MAJOR SPOILERS] Ending questions

[smashash]

Major spoilers below, please stop reading if you dont want the game to be spoiled.

Okay so can someone explain the ending to me? I did all the most wanted missions and got the 'real' knightfall ending but I'm not sure what I saw.
Does batman really die? What about alfred, since he was in the mansion when it blew up?
Also batman said it has to be done because it's the only way to protect 'them'; who is he referring to?
Lastly who/what was the figure at the end of the scene which transformed into smoke and then became an actual bat?

Thanks in advance. Great game btw, despite the logical/technical flaws :)

[mhenry_101381]

The "bat" was a result of the criminals under the influence of the fear gas. As for protection, probably everyone directly associated with him. Did Bruce and Alfred die? This may have been officially answered already, I would say no.

[HB5]

The ending scene where the "Bat figure" takes out the criminals is kind of an open ending. you can interpret in different ways. for instance;

1. it was Batman. he didn't die, and the resurrection aspect only made him scarier for criminals.
2. it was a successor of what Batman stood for. could be Jason Todd or Azrael or anyone who felt that return of Batman was necessary.
3. it was a manifestation of Batman's legacy. Criminals are feeling his presence even after he's presumably dead. now Batman is literally haunting the superstitious and cowardly.

or it could be all of the above. the overall implication is that Batman is indeed gone for the moment, but his absence will be temporary. in the "GCPD Lockdown" DLC, Nightwing even explicitly says "this is temporary" in response to a GCPD officer suggesting maybe they should change the symbol in the Bat signal.

Officially, Bruce most definitely did not die, as the notion of taking out Alfred with him is preposterous, and blowing up Wayne manor seems to be a great elaborate statement for the world rather than a fitting exile method Batman would have chosen.

This is confirmed by the fact that the rest of the Bat family (Tim, Barbara, and Nightwing) seems to be taking the "deaths" of Bruce Wayne and Alfred very well in the DLCs- so much so that non of them seems to be even slightly emotionally effected by it, while they continue to have casual conversations discussing the aftermath of Batman no longer being around. (Nightwing even pokes fun at Lucius saying "so I guess you're a billionaire now that the CEO is gone and you're in charge of the company")


The purpose of the Knightfall Protocol would have been to kill off Bruce Wayne, should Batman's identity be compromised to the public. It's a reasonable countermeasure, seeing how if Bruce Wayne is dead consequences of Batman's identity being known is no longer all that significant. now, Bruce no longer has to be Bruce Wayne anymore. It was always clear that Bruce Wayne was the made-up persona while Batman was his true self in all iterations of Batman. the take, would be that he has to give up his life as Bruce Wayne. sure, Batman may be his true self but Bruce Wayne is his true identity. I think it's the ultimate sacrifice (in a way, more so than actually giving up his life) that I don't think we have seen in a Batman story before. (him giving up the cowl we've seen before but never killing off Bruce Wayne. well, The Dark Knight Rises perhaps, but in that film he also retired permanently)

[smashash]

Thank you for the amazingly detailed replies mhenry and HB5! I think I'm gonna go with the 'batman isn't dead, just retired' path.

Thanks again.

[leandrombraz]

Originally posted by HB5:

The ending scene where the "Bat figure" takes out the criminals is kind of an open ending. you can interpret in different ways. for instance;

1. it was Batman. he didn't die, and the resurrection aspect only made him scarier for criminals.
2. it was a successor of what Batman stood for. could be Jason Todd or Azrael or anyone who felt that return of Batman was necessary.
3. it was a manifestation of Batman's legacy. Criminals are feeling his presence even after he's presumably dead. now Batman is literally haunting the superstitious and cowardly.

or it could be all of the above. the overall implication is that Batman is indeed gone for the moment, but his absence will be temporary. in the "GCPD Lockdown" DLC, Nightwing even explicitly says "this is temporary" in response to a GCPD officer suggesting maybe they should change the symbol in the Bat signal.

Officially, Bruce most definitely did not die, as the notion of taking out Alfred with him is preposterous, and blowing up Wayne manor seems to be a great elaborate statement for the world rather than a fitting exile method Batman would have chosen.

This is confirmed by the fact that the rest of the Bat family (Tim, Barbara, and Nightwing) seems to be taking the "deaths" of Bruce Wayne and Alfred very well in the DLCs- so much so that non of them seems to be even slightly emotionally effected by it, while they continue to have casual conversations discussing the aftermath of Batman no longer being around. (Nightwing even pokes fun at Lucius saying "so I guess you're a billionaire now that the CEO is gone and you're in charge of the company")


The purpose of the Knightfall Protocol would have been to kill off Bruce Wayne, should Batman's identity be compromised to the public. It's a reasonable countermeasure, seeing how if Bruce Wayne is dead consequences of Batman's identity being known is no longer all that significant. now, Bruce no longer has to be Bruce Wayne anymore. It was always clear that Bruce Wayne was the made-up persona while Batman was his true self in all iterations of Batman. the take, would be that he has to give up his life as Bruce Wayne. sure, Batman may be his true self but Bruce Wayne is his true identity. I think it's the ultimate sacrifice (in a way, more so than actually giving up his life) that I don't think we have seen in a Batman story before. (him giving up the cowl we've seen before but never killing off Bruce Wayne. well, The Dark Knight Rises perhaps, but in that film he also retired permanently)

I don't remember if it's a dialogue with Alfred or Catwoman but Bruce said that Batman had to die so something else would be born of his ashes, something worse (I think the word he uses is worse). So it has to be the first (it was Batman), he planned it all along. What is open for interpretation is what this worse would be, he comes back as something else that somehow is more effective than Batman. Maybe the figure of a ressurected Batman really is more powerful, maybe he will change his modus operandi, do things that Batman wouldn't do, who knows.

In the GCPD lockdown, I think what Nightwing meant is that he acting in Gotham was temporary, since he acts in Blüdhaven. I don't think anyone is aware of Bruce's plan, only Alfred knew of the Knightfall protocol and I think not even him knew of Bruce's plan to return after that. They are aware that Bruce is alive and that he faked his and Alfred's death but they probably merely deduced that and don't have any real information.

[lucasj1210]

Originally posted by ashwin18:

Thank you for the amazingly detailed replies mhenry and HB5! I think I'm gonna go with the 'batman isn't dead, just retired' path.

Thanks again.

Batman evolved into a different 'creature' due to the Joker infected blood...the titan toxin, merged with the fear toxin....you could see it happening in the game and even the creator stated it.
the 'batman' died' ...

[HowDiDoDat]

I think the end was left open-ended to stir discussion. In my case, this is my interpretation:

1. Bruce Wayne died symbolically but not physically. If he had decided to kill himself, I doubt he'd taken Alfred down with him. Batman blowing up the mansion was a way of killing Bruce Wayne in order for him to fully devote to the Batman persona, as he feels Gotham City needs something more, something worse, as he says to Catwoman here.
   
   
2. The creature at the end is a new Batman using the fear toxing to, well, stir fear into the criminals of Gotham. I believe this is a new Batman because the figure you see at the very end is exactly what Scarecrow saw when he was injected with his own fear toxin.