debates about the jedi exiles real name?

[Prophet20147]

i commented on a kotor video the other day replying to a comment saying they cant help but to name their character revan in kotor 1, i simply said i do the same and also name the jedi exile "meetra surik" if playing as a female, or my first name with surik as the last name when male because thats the exiles real name. for some reason this made a person in the comment thread extremely upset and they sperged out on me telling me thats just an opinion and thats not her name because that name isnt mentioned in kotor 2 but in "uncanon lore" last time i checked none of this was technically canon even before Disney owned star wars but it was still okay'd by geroge lucas for legends and that there were knights of the old republic comics about revan that stated the exiles name clearly as meetra surik. does anyone know where this person is coming from or can explain to me why they are so upset? they were acting like the sources that state her name have nothing to do with kotor when they were kotor comics themselves, as well as the old republic mmo that also refers to her as both meetra surik and the jedi exile. i also find it funny how they used the name not being in the game as proof they are right when meetra is clearly a feminine name that wouldnt work with a male exile.

[Darth Revan]

I don't know where that person is coming from with this one either, it always seemed clear to me that her canon name is meetra surik.

Revan is a different story since revan is not his actual name but as far as I know his actual name is not stated anywhere.

That the real name is not stated ingame is logical since it's a game in which you create and name your own character.

[Prophet20147]

i said the same points as you and they ignored that and insulted me even more, from what i found out online the comics that state her name are written from different people that made the games and actually disrespect revan and the exile as characters so alot of fans hate it, i can understand all that but the comic giving her a name isnt a problem imo, and recognizing that name isnt agreeing with the route the comics took with their characters. but the person still sperged out on me for it.

[Darth Revan]

As long as the comic is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that should not matter if you ask me.

I mean KOTOR 2 was not made by the same people who made KOTOR 1 either

Though I am a bit of a hypocrite with that argument because I would be up in arms (of course metaphoricly) if Disney would produce new KOTOR media and for example make revan female even though it is established already that revan is male and the exile is female

But in your case the exiles name was not established before so I don't see the problem with taking the name from the comic

[Prophet20147]

the comic is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, its the revan novel that set up the lore for the old republic mmo which originally was supposed to be kotor 3. all made by lucasarts of course. pre disney. i for one liked that game regardless of the lore retcons made in it.

[Diocles]

The real name is only known via SWTOR,and thats it. true fact. And the little story shows her Force ghost she is dead,and this literally kills KOTOR II. The gsme suvives,ofc. :D

[Prophet20147]

the revan novel im talking about came out before swtor and states her name, but it was made to set up swtor itself so same difference i guess. kotor 3 would've been better than swtor though and i agree that that scene that shows her ghost after you defeat revan is extremely underwhelming.

[Diocles]

As I said b4 it can _not kill this game,as well as 'canon did not_

[red255]

Meetra surik was the name given to a force ghost in KOTOR MMO who apparently died to a blaster bolt, became a force ghost and only purpose was as a signboard pointing out revan's resting location to the player.

if thats my character in KOTOR 2, thats incredibly pathetic. if the KOTOR MMO claim thats cannon I take away their writing rights.

AI will do a better job.

[Vanitas_Kuna]

Didn't Meetra died to Scourge stabbing her in the back with his lightsaber? Pretty sure that was in the Revan book.

[red255]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Vanitas_Kuna:

Didn't Meetra died to Scourge stabbing her in the back with his lightsaber? Pretty sure that was in the Revan book.

according to the internet, Scourge recieved a notice from the writers, and murdered them so the plot could progress.

apparently.

[Prophet20147]

Diposting pertama kali oleh red255:

Meetra surik was the name given to a force ghost in KOTOR MMO who apparently died to a blaster bolt, became a force ghost and only purpose was as a signboard pointing out revan's resting location to the player.

if thats my character in KOTOR 2, thats incredibly pathetic. if the KOTOR MMO claim thats cannon I take away their writing rights.

AI will do a better job.

her name was given before that in the novel, but i agree they did her very dirty, i guess thats why people dont accept meetra as her name.

[Cantiras]

Prior to Disney's ownership, the Exile was included in Star Wars' C-Canon[starwars.fandom.com]; however, Disney has (at least for the time being) decanonized the Jedi Exile. Disney jettisoned the Star Wars Expanded Universe, rebranding it as Star Wars Legends in the process. While writers for Disney have at times repurposed thematic ideas, characters, and events from Legends, Disney does not recognize Legends as canon. I.e., Star Wars Legends should be thought of as mythology, or perhaps at best a parallel universe, but it is not a part of Disney's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Star Wars continuity[starwars.fandom.com]. Even when characters (e.g., Thrawn, Revan, etc.) are introduced into Disney's Star Wars canon, they have thus far not been 1:1 reproductions of their Legends counterparts.

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars Legends
"In 2006, The New Essential Guide to Droids established the Exile as a female, using the term 'heroine' and female pronouns in a number of entries on droids that appeared in The Sith Lords. The New Essential Guide to Droids, along with the 2008 Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, further confirmed that the light-side ending of The Sith Lords is the canonical ending. The 2011 novel The Old Republic: Revan, which bridges the gaps between Knights of the Old Republic, The Sith Lords, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, established the Exile's name to be Meetra Surik. The novel also reaffirmed Surik's gender and the canon ending of The Sith Lords, and explained what happened to the Exile after the events of the game." Source[starwars.fandom.com]

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars canon
Currently, the Exile doesn't exist in Star Wars canon. The closest an author has come to reviving Meetra Surik specifically, is the phrase "Surik's Blade[static1.cbrimages.com]", uttered by Sskeer in The High Republic comic. While the author teased at the reference on Twitter (after showing the comic panel, he tweeted a GIF of Robert Downey Jr. saying "Maybe[i.imgur.com]" in response to a question if the Surik of "Surik's Blade" was indeed Meetra Surik), there remains no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ forename (I say that, but for all we currently know, the Surik of "Surik's Blade" could turn out to be a forename rather than a surname, or neither; it's whatever Disney wants it to be) and no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ backstory with regard to the phrase. Female or male, light-side or dark-side, the Exile might never be added to Disney's Star Wars canon. If Meetra Surik is added, she might be a Jedi but not a Jedi exile, she might be opposed to Revan rather than an ally; she might be from the High Republic era rather than the Old Republic era. No one knows for certain what Disney will do, if Disney does anything at all.

---

With regard to the games, leave it to the players' imaginations. If someone wants Revan to be dark-side and/or female, Revan can be dark-side and/or female (and KOTOR 2 allows for this backstory, even though SWTOR doesn't). If someone wants the Jedi Exile to be dark-side and/or male, the Exile can be dark-side and/or male. If someone wants Jaden Korr (Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, but similar issue of having characteristics imposed extraneously by other sources) to be dark-side, and/or female, and/or a species other than human, Jaden Korr can be any of those things.

Unless they patch them out after launch, developers can't retroactively ban choices they have allowed players in a given game (e.g., you still have the same choices available today in KOTOR that were available when the game was released in 2003), although they might not respect previous player choices in subsequent entries in the series, but if so, that speaks to a problem with their own world-building or to the stifling hand of an IP overlord. And fans who have put consideration into making choices and who have invested time into realizing the in-game consequences of those choices typically don't like to have their choices arbitrarily nullified by subsequent games in the series.

When it comes to overriding player choice, I'll make exceptions for Kyle Katarn's dark-side ending in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (specifically, becoming emperor), Galen Marek's dark-side ending in The Force Unleashed (and arguably either ending in The Force Unleashed II, since the likelihood of a third game to tie up loose ends was never high), and the dark-side ending in the Revenge of the Sith movie tie-in video game, since these endings knowingly/purposely didn't mesh with previously established Star Wars canon (these alternate endings are inherently non-canon, rather than being rendered so after the fact), so I always thought of these more as playful indulgences rather than intended possible outcomes; that being said, players are free to choose those endings all the same, but should realize up-front that those alternate endings are non-canon, and thus there is no possibility those endings will be reflected in-universe (i.e., subsequent games or other media).

[psychotron666]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Cantiras:

Prior to Disney's ownership, the Exile was included in Star Wars' C-Canon[starwars.fandom.com]; however, Disney has (at least for the time being) decanonized the Jedi Exile. Disney jettisoned the Star Wars Expanded Universe, rebranding it as Star Wars Legends in the process. While writers for Disney have at times repurposed thematic ideas, characters, and events from Legends, Disney does not recognize Legends as canon. I.e., Star Wars Legends should be thought of as mythology, or perhaps at best a parallel universe, but it is not a part of Disney's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Star Wars continuity[starwars.fandom.com]. Even when characters (e.g., Thrawn, Revan, etc.) are introduced into Disney's Star Wars canon, they have thus far not been 1:1 reproductions of their Legends counterparts.

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars Legends
"In 2006, The New Essential Guide to Droids established the Exile as a female, using the term 'heroine' and female pronouns in a number of entries on droids that appeared in The Sith Lords. The New Essential Guide to Droids, along with the 2008 Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, further confirmed that the light-side ending of The Sith Lords is the canonical ending. The 2011 novel The Old Republic: Revan, which bridges the gaps between Knights of the Old Republic, The Sith Lords, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, established the Exile's name to be Meetra Surik. The novel also reaffirmed Surik's gender and the canon ending of The Sith Lords, and explained what happened to the Exile after the events of the game." Source[starwars.fandom.com]

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars canon
Currently, the Exile doesn't exist in Star Wars canon. The closest an author has come to reviving Meetra Surik specifically, is the phrase "Surik's Blade[static1.cbrimages.com]", uttered by Sskeer in The High Republic comic. While the author teased at the reference on Twitter (after showing the comic panel, he tweeted a GIF of Robert Downey Jr. saying "Maybe[i.imgur.com]" in response to a question if the Surik of "Surik's Blade" was indeed Meetra Surik), there remains no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ forename (I say that, but for all we currently know, the Surik of "Surik's Blade" could turn out to be a forename rather than a surname, or neither; it's whatever Disney wants it to be) and no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ backstory with regard to the phrase. Female or male, light-side or dark-side, the Exile might never be added to Disney's Star Wars canon. If Meetra Surik is added, she might be a Jedi but not a Jedi exile, she might be opposed to Revan rather than an ally; she might be from the High Republic era rather than the Old Republic era. No one knows for certain what Disney will do, if Disney does anything at all.

---

With regard to the games, leave it to the players' imaginations. If someone wants Revan to be dark-side and/or female, Revan can be dark-side and/or female (and KOTOR 2 allows for this backstory, even though SWTOR doesn't). If someone wants the Jedi Exile to be dark-side and/or male, the Exile can be dark-side and/or male. If someone wants Jaden Korr (Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, but similar issue of having characteristics imposed extraneously by other sources) to be dark-side, and/or female, and/or a species other than human, Jaden Korr can be any of those things.

Unless they patch them out after launch, developers can't retroactively ban choices they have allowed players in a given game (e.g., you still have the same choices available today in KOTOR that were available when the game was released in 2003), although they might not respect previous player choices in subsequent entries in the series, but if so, that speaks to a problem with their own world-building or to the stifling hand of an IP overlord. And fans who have put consideration into making choices and who have invested time into realizing the in-game consequences of those choices typically don't like to have their choices arbitrarily nullified by subsequent games in the series.

When it comes to overriding player choice, I'll make exceptions for Kyle Katarn's dark-side ending in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (specifically, becoming emperor), Galen Marek's dark-side ending in The Force Unleashed (and arguably either ending in The Force Unleashed II, since the likelihood of a third game to tie up loose ends was never high), and the dark-side ending in the Revenge of the Sith movie tie-in video game, since these endings knowingly/purposely didn't mesh with previously established Star Wars canon (these alternate endings are inherently non-canon, rather than being rendered so after the fact), so I always thought of these more as playful indulgences rather than intended possible outcomes; that being said, players are free to choose those endings all the same, but should realize up-front that those alternate endings are non-canon, and thus there is no possibility those endings will be reflected in-universe (i.e., subsequent games or other media).

The whole c canon g canon ♥♥♥♥ is just some ♥♥♥♥ some fans and employees at Lucas arts came up with to head canon and gatekeep what trash fan fics are true canon™️ and what aren't.

George Lucas when he owned the franchise was very clear, there's two separate universes, his own that includes just the movies he made, and everything else. To him, everything else was non canon.

When Disney bought the franchise, they took all the expanded universe and turned them into in universe legends. Meaning that all the stories exist in universe, but they're just that, stories. Some of them are perhaps complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some are maybe fully true, or some are partly true.

They did this for two reasons, one being so they can pick and choose what (if any) aspects of the EU they want to use in the future (like they did with thrawn for example) and the second reason being legal reasons so they don't have to pay royalties for using any of those aspects to the people who made them.

Like it or not, but the EU is actually more canon under Disney than they were under George Lucas who explicitly said they aren't part of his universe.

[Prophet20147]

Diposting pertama kali oleh psychotron666:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Cantiras:

Prior to Disney's ownership, the Exile was included in Star Wars' C-Canon[starwars.fandom.com]; however, Disney has (at least for the time being) decanonized the Jedi Exile. Disney jettisoned the Star Wars Expanded Universe, rebranding it as Star Wars Legends in the process. While writers for Disney have at times repurposed thematic ideas, characters, and events from Legends, Disney does not recognize Legends as canon. I.e., Star Wars Legends should be thought of as mythology, or perhaps at best a parallel universe, but it is not a part of Disney's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Star Wars continuity[starwars.fandom.com]. Even when characters (e.g., Thrawn, Revan, etc.) are introduced into Disney's Star Wars canon, they have thus far not been 1:1 reproductions of their Legends counterparts.

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars Legends
"In 2006, The New Essential Guide to Droids established the Exile as a female, using the term 'heroine' and female pronouns in a number of entries on droids that appeared in The Sith Lords. The New Essential Guide to Droids, along with the 2008 Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide, further confirmed that the light-side ending of The Sith Lords is the canonical ending. The 2011 novel The Old Republic: Revan, which bridges the gaps between Knights of the Old Republic, The Sith Lords, and Star Wars: The Old Republic, established the Exile's name to be Meetra Surik. The novel also reaffirmed Surik's gender and the canon ending of The Sith Lords, and explained what happened to the Exile after the events of the game." Source[starwars.fandom.com]

The Jedi Exile in Star Wars canon
Currently, the Exile doesn't exist in Star Wars canon. The closest an author has come to reviving Meetra Surik specifically, is the phrase "Surik's Blade[static1.cbrimages.com]", uttered by Sskeer in The High Republic comic. While the author teased at the reference on Twitter (after showing the comic panel, he tweeted a GIF of Robert Downey Jr. saying "Maybe[i.imgur.com]" in response to a question if the Surik of "Surik's Blade" was indeed Meetra Surik), there remains no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ forename (I say that, but for all we currently know, the Surik of "Surik's Blade" could turn out to be a forename rather than a surname, or neither; it's whatever Disney wants it to be) and no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ backstory with regard to the phrase. Female or male, light-side or dark-side, the Exile might never be added to Disney's Star Wars canon. If Meetra Surik is added, she might be a Jedi but not a Jedi exile, she might be opposed to Revan rather than an ally; she might be from the High Republic era rather than the Old Republic era. No one knows for certain what Disney will do, if Disney does anything at all.

---

With regard to the games, leave it to the players' imaginations. If someone wants Revan to be dark-side and/or female, Revan can be dark-side and/or female (and KOTOR 2 allows for this backstory, even though SWTOR doesn't). If someone wants the Jedi Exile to be dark-side and/or male, the Exile can be dark-side and/or male. If someone wants Jaden Korr (Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, but similar issue of having characteristics imposed extraneously by other sources) to be dark-side, and/or female, and/or a species other than human, Jaden Korr can be any of those things.

Unless they patch them out after launch, developers can't retroactively ban choices they have allowed players in a given game (e.g., you still have the same choices available today in KOTOR that were available when the game was released in 2003), although they might not respect previous player choices in subsequent entries in the series, but if so, that speaks to a problem with their own world-building or to the stifling hand of an IP overlord. And fans who have put consideration into making choices and who have invested time into realizing the in-game consequences of those choices typically don't like to have their choices arbitrarily nullified by subsequent games in the series.

When it comes to overriding player choice, I'll make exceptions for Kyle Katarn's dark-side ending in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II (specifically, becoming emperor), Galen Marek's dark-side ending in The Force Unleashed (and arguably either ending in The Force Unleashed II, since the likelihood of a third game to tie up loose ends was never high), and the dark-side ending in the Revenge of the Sith movie tie-in video game, since these endings knowingly/purposely didn't mesh with previously established Star Wars canon (these alternate endings are inherently non-canon, rather than being rendered so after the fact), so I always thought of these more as playful indulgences rather than intended possible outcomes; that being said, players are free to choose those endings all the same, but should realize up-front that those alternate endings are non-canon, and thus there is no possibility those endings will be reflected in-universe (i.e., subsequent games or other media).

The whole c canon g canon ♥♥♥♥ is just some ♥♥♥♥ some fans and employees at Lucas arts came up with to head canon and gatekeep what trash fan fics are true canon™️ and what aren't.

George Lucas when he owned the franchise was very clear, there's two separate universes, his own that includes just the movies he made, and everything else. To him, everything else was non canon.

When Disney bought the franchise, they took all the expanded universe and turned them into in universe legends. Meaning that all the stories exist in universe, but they're just that, stories. Some of them are perhaps complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some are maybe fully true, or some are partly true.

They did this for two reasons, one being so they can pick and choose what (if any) aspects of the EU they want to use in the future (like they did with thrawn for example) and the second reason being legal reasons so they don't have to pay royalties for using any of those aspects to the people who made them.

Like it or not, but the EU is actually more canon under Disney than they were under George Lucas who explicitly said they aren't part of his universe.

i agree 100%

[Cantiras]

Diposting pertama kali oleh psychotron666:

The whole c canon g canon ♥♥♥♥ is just some ♥♥♥♥ some fans and employees at Lucas arts came up with to head canon and gatekeep what trash fan fics are true canon™️ and what aren't.

Lucasfilm saw fit to employ Leland Chee under George Lucas's ownership, and has continued that employment under Disney's ownership as well. Yes, to help align the continuity of the IP, or gatekeep in your words. I'm not here to argue whether that should or should not be done, but in recognition that it is done, I was replying to the OP's question, "does anyone know where this person is coming from", with a possible answer.

Diposting pertama kali oleh psychotron666:

...they're just that, stories. Some of them are perhaps complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, some are maybe fully true, or some are partly true.

So in other words, a mythology. The fact that myths exist doesn't make all or even some of the events they relate true, or in the fictional realm of Star Wars, doesn't inherently make the events authentic within that fictional universe. Disney either has to sign off on an existing story as being authentic, in which case the events as already told would be canonized, or Disney has to employ someone to pen "the truth behind the myth" (i.e., the actual events as they are to exist in canon). Elsewise, the characters, events, etc. of Legends are not to be considered canonical.

Diposting pertama kali oleh psychotron666:

...the EU is actually more canon under Disney than they were under George Lucas...

Legends content isn't periphery canon. E.g., Kyle Katarn isn't a canonical character for Disney. Prior to Disney's ownership, he was part of Lucasfilm's broader canon, irrespective of if George Lucas was unaware of or otherwise disregarded the character. If George Lucas wasn't amenable to this coexistence (albeit his vision obviously took precedence), he could have ceased the EU at any time, since the works thereof bore his company's trademarks. George Lucas even provided his input in some of these projects (example), which suggests he cared to some degree that there was some continuity. I would agree that Disney (either as an appeal to fans' member berries or for lack of better ideas) reenvisions Legends content more liberally than George Lucas repurposed content from the EU (although on rare occasion he did incorporate elements from the EU, such as Coruscant, for example), although when this occurs it is often in a hollowed out form because they cut out so much of what had been previously established.

Diposting pertama kali oleh psychotron666:

...they can pick and choose what (if any) aspects of the EU they want to use in the future (like they did with thrawn for example)...

And these are reimaginings, not 1:1 reproductions. I.e., Thrawn in Legends is not exactly the same as Thrawn in Disney's media. It's why Wookieepedia has two separate Thrawn articles, one for canon[starwars.fandom.com], and one for Legends[starwars.fandom.com]. It helps in Thrawn's case that Timothy Zahn was involved with both versions of Thrawn. Canon Revan currently has no history with the Star Forge, for example, as the Star Forge doesn't currently exist in Disney's canon. Other than being a Sith Lord, pretty much nothing about Revan has been canonized; Revan could turn out to be a Chadra-Fan cyborg behind the mask. I jest, but aside from planets and species, much of the content of KOTOR is Legends fare (i.e., not currently canon). Perhaps if/when Saber Interactive finishes the KOTOR remake, Disney will rubber-stamp the story as canon, but nothing is canon until Disney makes it canon, as the Star Wars sandbox is Disney's IP. Beginning in April 2014, the stories in new Star Wars games (e.g., Outlaws) are canonical, but the stories in games predating April 2014 aren't (such as SWTOR), and remasters of pre-2014 games are unlikely to be (e.g., the story featured in Dark Forces Remaster isn't canonical). Saber Interactive is working on a remake, not a remaster, and it remains to be seen what Disney's stance is on remakes; it might depend on if story changes are made.

Regardless, it should have no bearing on what choices you make when playing the previous games.