What prestige class should I choose?

[temps]

I'm playing a spellcasting-focused Consular, and wondering what prestige class I should take. (Kreia's teachings)

Weapon Master, and... can't remember the others. Which is best?

[cerberusiv]

You have a choice of 3. Weapon Master/Marauder is basically advanced Guardian, so very much lightsaber combat (and other weapons). Watchman/Assassin is advanced Sentinel so primarily skills based but good in combat and with force powers. Jedi Master/Sith Lord is advanced Consular so mostly force powers.

You can take any of them. Weapon Master gives your character the physical combat ability the Consular doesn't have. Playing the extreme combinations is probably the most fun but also requires the most care and attention.

Jedi Master/Sith Lord would leave you heavily focused on force powers. That isn't a problem as you rapidly become powerful enough to take out anything.

I would say to choose what interests you, explore developing your character and just enjoy the game.

[psychotron666]

Don't take the Sith Lord or master because the base consular is a better class than either of those. Those prestige classes are better for someone who's a guardian or sentinel and want to increase force powers from their base class, but not better than a consular.

So as a consular you'll do fine with force powers, so you decide between the physical class or the skill and stealth class.

Id say for kreia teachings roleplay, going assassin/Watchmen makes more sense. Basically meant for hitting with abilities like Insanity, and then attacking for sneak attack damage.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Don't take the Sith Lord or master because the base consular is a better class than either of those. Those prestige classes are better for someone who's a guardian or sentinel and want to increase force powers from their base class, but not better than a consular.

What's wrong with caster consular going master/lord? Also it doesn't make sense for guardian to take this prestige class, since as a melee char you'll only need master Force speed, Force plague and maybe Force heal for healing between fights, so better to take blademaster/marauder (as a latter you'll also need to uptime fury).

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Id say for kreia teachings roleplay, going assassin/Watchmen makes more sense. Basically meant for hitting with abilities like Insanity, and then attacking for sneak attack damage.

Depends on how you build your character. If they're pro-Force and weapon is just in case, it's no use to have sneak attack (and, thus, take watchman/assassin). For someone like gunslinger consular, though, it makes perfect sense.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Don't take the Sith Lord or master because the base consular is a better class than either of those. Those prestige classes are better for someone who's a guardian or sentinel and want to increase force powers from their base class, but not better than a consular.

What's wrong with caster consular going master/lord? Also it doesn't make sense for guardian to take this prestige class, since as a melee char you'll only need master Force speed, Force plague and maybe Force heal for healing between fights, so better to take blademaster/marauder (as a latter you'll also need to uptime fury).

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Id say for kreia teachings roleplay, going assassin/Watchmen makes more sense. Basically meant for hitting with abilities like Insanity, and then attacking for sneak attack damage.

Depends on how you build your character. If they're pro-Force and weapon is just in case, it's no use to have sneak attack (and, thus, take watchman/assassin). For someone like gunslinger consular, though, it makes perfect sense.

Because by every metric, the Sith Lord and Jedi Master are worse classes than a consular. Taking one of these classes is a downgrade from staying a consular.
You get worse HP per level, worse force pool per level and worse save progression than a consular.

Now if you were a guardian or sentinel, then those prestige classes can be good to make you better with force powers, if you wanted to be better with force powers that is.

And yes, from consular you can go either Marauder or assassin if you want, it just depends what you're going for. If you barely use physical combat, then the Marauder is just as pointless for you too, but at least with the assassin you can maybe use the sneak attack and still will have more skills.

Op said he's playing a kreia teachings character, so imo it makes more sense to pick up assassin/Watchmen then.

[cerberusiv]

I usually start as a sentinel and take watchman if LS or sith lord if DS. Either has more than enough ability at melee combat to get through the game. Watchman still has more than enough force ability as well. The reason I take Sith Lord if DS is more roleplay than anything. I particularly like the passive effect of my very presence corrupting the others to the dark side.

The game is easy enough with any class combination so play whatever you like the idea of.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

I usually start as a sentinel and take watchman if LS or sith lord if DS. Either has more than enough ability at melee combat to get through the game. Watchman still has more than enough force ability as well. The reason I take Sith Lord if DS is more roleplay than anything. I particularly like the passive effect of my very presence corrupting the others to the dark side.

The game is easy enough with any class combination so play whatever you like the idea of.

This is very true, the game is so easy that any combination is doable.
I admit I've taken Sith Lord a few times myself, mostly for the same, roleplay reasons. I was just pointing out how they are worse classes than the consular, but it really doesn't matter cus you can still annihilate armies and one hit kill sion and 4 hit kill kreia.

[Sword Saint Yoshi]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Don't take the Sith Lord or master because the base consular is a better class than either of those. Those prestige classes are better for someone who's a guardian or sentinel and want to increase force powers from their base class, but not better than a consular.

So as a consular you'll do fine with force powers, so you decide between the physical class or the skill and stealth class.

Id say for kreia teachings roleplay, going assassin/Watchmen makes more sense. Basically meant for hitting with abilities like Insanity, and then attacking for sneak attack damage.

I respectfully protest against not picking Jedi Master or Sith Lord.

Currently doing something of a Cross-Class strategy - I'm currently at Jedi Guardian 15 and Jedi Master 13 on the Restored Content Mod! Wielding twin purple lightsabers and being able to use Force powers like Lightning, Stasis Field, and Destroy Droid (might add Force Choke to it later as I have all the buffing powers as well).

My starting stats were the following:

Strength: 14
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 12

- For a while, I did level my STR to 16-17 (later got Sith Power Gauntlets and Dominator Gauntlets) and then finished off my CON at 18 (better implants appear with a higher Constitution, especially ones that boost your stats or give you immunities).

- Around Nar Shaddaa, I then put all my focus on my WIS after I prestige into Jedi Master. I already had a good amount of armor and crystals that boost my WIS and Charisma. The character crystal you get later REALLY boosts you up on a lot of your attributes, especially WIS. Certain Jedi Robes even help with this like Ossus Keeper Robes, Nomi's Robes, etc.

- Also, if you're playing as a male Jedi character, your training with Handmaiden (and conversation about how she is anticipating your moves) gives you Battle Precognition which calls for your WIS attribute to be added to your defense. So even if you have on robes but your WIS is high, your defense will go up dramatically along with whatever attachments you have on your lightsaber(s).

- I went dual lightsabers just because I can have more attachments and upgrades on two of them than I would with one lightsaber or a saberstaff/double-bladed lightsaber. Having Expert Fencing Emitters on both of them along with Battle Precognition and Master Force Speed... just try to touch me with my 40+ defense. Plus, I have Master Jedi Defense.

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by Sword Saint Yasuke:

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Don't take the Sith Lord or master because the base consular is a better class than either of those. Those prestige classes are better for someone who's a guardian or sentinel and want to increase force powers from their base class, but not better than a consular.

So as a consular you'll do fine with force powers, so you decide between the physical class or the skill and stealth class.

Id say for kreia teachings roleplay, going assassin/Watchmen makes more sense. Basically meant for hitting with abilities like Insanity, and then attacking for sneak attack damage.

I respectfully protest against not picking Jedi Master or Sith Lord.

Currently doing something of a Cross-Class strategy - I'm currently at Jedi Guardian 15 and Jedi Master 13 on the Restored Content Mod! Wielding twin purple lightsabers and being able to use Force powers like Lightning, Stasis Field, and Destroy Droid (might add Force Choke to it later as I have all the buffing powers as well).

My starting stats were the following:

Strength: 14
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 14
Charisma: 12

- For a while, I did level my STR to 16-17 (later got Sith Power Gauntlets and Dominator Gauntlets) and then finished off my CON at 18 (better implants appear with a higher Constitution, especially ones that boost your stats or give you immunities).

- Around Nar Shaddaa, I then put all my focus on my WIS after I prestige into Jedi Master. I already had a good amount of armor and crystals that boost my WIS and Charisma. The character crystal you get later REALLY boosts you up on a lot of your attributes, especially WIS. Certain Jedi Robes even help with this like Ossus Keeper Robes, Nomi's Robes, etc.

- Also, if you're playing as a male Jedi character, your training with Handmaiden (and conversation about how she is anticipating your moves) gives you Battle Precognition which calls for your WIS attribute to be added to your defense. So even if you have on robes but your WIS is high, your defense will go up dramatically along with whatever attachments you have on your lightsaber(s).

- I went dual lightsabers just because I can have more attachments and upgrades on two of them than I would with one lightsaber or a saberstaff/double-bladed lightsaber. Having Expert Fencing Emitters on both of them along with Battle Precognition and Master Force Speed... just try to touch me with my 40+ defense. Plus, I have Master Jedi Defense.

Yes and if you read the posts more clearly, as in the second sentence, you would see that Sith Lord or Jedi Master is only worse if you're a consular (consular is better in every way), and it's an upgrade in force powers if you're a Sentinel or guardian. Op was a consular, that advice was for consular because the lord and master are a downgrade from a consular.

You're a guardian, so that assertion of the Jedi Master being a downgrade does not apply to you. It would apply if you were a consular though.

[cerberusiv]

Psychotron is absolutely right. If you start as a Consular then taking Master/Sith Lord as your advanced class makes no logical sense. Your stats progression will be slower and the other benefits from the advanced class aren't worth it when analyzed coldly.

It does make sense to consider Master/Sith Lord as your advanced class if you start as a Guardian or Sentinel as those are easier for the early part of the game when physical combat is stronger than pure force but then you get the Force user benefits for the later game when that is more powerful.

But really, you can play whatever classes you like and still complete the game. There is no "best" choice. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

[Emmental]

Cross classing is generally more fun and powerful than going down the analogous route. Like Consular to Weapon Master etc.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by Emmental:

Cross classing is generally more fun and powerful than going down the analogous route. Like Consular to Weapon Master etc.

And just how consular-wm is more powerful than guardian-wm?

[Emmental]

Well the Op is a Consular and much like the others said it's kind of redundant becoming a Jedi Master or Sith Lord. At least as a Weapon Master he'll have better defence, toughness and damage.

[cerberusiv]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by Emmental:

Cross classing is generally more fun and powerful than going down the analogous route. Like Consular to Weapon Master etc.

And just how consular-wm is more powerful than guardian-wm?

Because you can fry whole rooms full of enemies in a single attack with Force Lightening? And if any do survive to attack you you can stand up to them better than a Consular-Master/Sith Lord.

If you know what you are doing of course. And it is definitely more fun and challenging to have to think about how to make it work.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

Because you can fry whole rooms full of enemies in a single attack with Force Lightening? And if any do survive to attack you you can stand up to them better than a Consular-Master/Sith Lord.

If you know what you are doing of course. And it is definitely more fun and challenging to have to think about how to make it work.

Whoever survives initial 1-2 Force storms can be put down with another one. Or Force kill/crush if its health is too big for another storm. That is, if you're playing WIS-maxed consular focused on Force powers. It's pretty much the whole point of this build - kill/CC/kite everything, not letting it come to your melee zone.

And as guardian-WM you're pretty much unstoppable juggernaut, mowing down one target after another. While it lacks means to quickly dispatch roomful of weak enemies, it makes up for it with sheer strength and survivability. Also you have Kreia and Visas for this until some point, and past it there aren't that many enemies at once.

Playing consular-WM is more versatile and maybe more fun, since you have to balance your stats to be able to perform in both cases, but it's weaker than either pure option at its peak scenario. It pretty much comes down to this: pure Force build excels at aoe and cc'able enemies but is rather weak against bosses and tough melee enemies immune to control, juggernaut (guardian-WM) is the opposite, consular-WM is kinda average at both. At any rate, game is easy enough that any build is viable on hard difficulty, as long as you know what you're doing.

[Emmental]

Originally posted by Mattmoo:

Originally posted by Emmental:

Cross classing is generally more fun and powerful than going down the analogous route. Like Consular to Weapon Master etc.

It might be "more powerful" but if you're focused on like one type of build, you aren't going to lose much by sticking with that build... You can be more powerful by being able to dispatch enemies very quickly with offensive force powers or like force jump combined with some other things, other techniques of attack... Even so, strategies like that can be boring or distracting, and while more powerful in some cases, I doubt it'd make a big difference in others.

Of course I can't argue against the fact that combining some powers of the early Jedi types or even the laters one like what a Weapon Master can do and such... Is less effective.

Still, I'd rather see my character gain linearly in power without losing much sometimes, and that's where sticking to one path does make sense... A watchmen that started off as a Sentinel will have lots of defense against a multitude of abilities and still be strong/resilient

On the other hand I could see how, for me at least relying only on combat abilities or only on Force abilities mostly, may end up pretty boring. All depends on your playstyle, really.

In terms of effective force powers the main thing is starting as a Consular for the force focus. Becoming a Jedi Master/Sith Lord just gets you the Enlightenment/Corruption and the Inspire Followers/Force Crush. Not particularly useful abilities in my book. I guess you continue to get bonus force powers once you've prestiged, but how many do you really need?

The funny alternatives would be things like Consular/Sith Assassin so you can use insanity then sneak attack everyone to death while they're incapacitated. Or Guardian/Watchman so you can sneak attack with your force jumps.

Although it could be viewed as a minor thing, cross classing also opens up new skill sets that would otherwise have been cross class for your base class.

For me it mostly boils down to Jedi Master/Sith Lord being pretty useless, the other prestige classes are just better regardless of your starting class in my opinion.