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(2) Kreia wasn't teaching you the lesson that you shouldn't help people. She was teaching you that any help you give should directly serve your purposes in some way. She expects a return on investment. Reviving Hanharr wasn't altruism. Kreia doesn't care about Hanharr, she only cares that she can use him.
Giving handouts to random people on the streets doesn't benefit you in any way and if your character did actually care for them, he wouldn't rob them of the experience of solving their own problems. That's why Kreia berates you.
(3) Atton didn't kill the Twin Suns, he just bested them and ran. The game's combat system has no way to represent incapacitated or otherwise disabled foes.
Clearly you can suspend your disbelief better than I, for me, that's just lazy storytelling. Something I'd expect from The Simpsons in the Conan O'Brien as a staff writer era, who just did whatever he wanted, who cares about timelines and what came before? Just make it funny for 24 minutes and the idiots will be happy! (Unlike his replacement Mike Scully, who cared about things like story arc and continuity, and was a much better writer. Both are millionaires today but Conan is at a different level, because integrity? Integrity, like the Light Side, is a burden; there are faster ways to fame, wealth and power.)
Same for Hanharr the wookie is dead, long before Mira finishes him off on Malachor V. He died below the Jekk'Jekk Tarr on Nar Shaddaa, he is not merely beaten but shown lying motionless because the combat system cannot accomodate unconciousness... a combat system that has both stun and slow already, but whatever... no he's dead, with a gaping smoking hole the size of a wrist-mounted launcher missile with explosive warhead. He can't be recruited for the Dark Side player. He's dead. This is cheating. Or, hey, since anything goes, who knows? Maybe he's a zombie, maybe he can't die. He clearly taunts Mira repeatedly, telling her that she can't kill him. Maybe he meant it literally, not the inference she was weak. Zombie Wookie!
re: handouts, you're talking about that one interaction on the refugee spaceport where you give someone credits and he gets mugged and she lectures you, there's even a cutscene. You then proceed to do 4 different side quests, all altruistic, all involving the threatening and intimidation (and even deaths) of people who may or may not be bad, or just in a bad situation, doesn't matter, you dealt with them... praised for the same action that you lost her influence over, praised with the Mandalore dialogues and praised with the droid swoop bike pilot extortion, and praised for ripping off the near-blind parts dealer. (praised, but no positive influence, mind you.)
Scara - YES it is nitpicky, that is the point entirely! When it's fun, normally you just overlook such things, you let it go... it's only when it's so dumb that it starts to wear on you, much like how your game avatar is treated, actually.
This screenshot sums up the laziness factor perfectly:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1744458097
That is hard to overlook once you're annoyed. Is it nitpicking? No. Yes. Maybe? It's one thing when you get into a recursive conversation because of branching, it's another when it's their first dialogue that they initiate when you reach the trigger location, and your option is repeating the thing they just said to you? There's a dozen of those kinds of things, maybe more if I paid closer attention, and that makes me think they don't consider the story important.
Or, maybe it was a deadline thing, maybe the staffer responsible for stuff like this was fired and the replacement wasn't as good at it, or there wasn't a replacement. There's endless possibilities as to why the game is filled with stuff like this. The point being, it is filled with them. Dozens.
Then again? Maybe it's not important, maybe I'm the only one who cares, who pays close (close enough) attention to notice contradictions and continuity errors and hacky storytelling. Maybe if I paid more attention I'd spot how overall crappy the whole game really is, and ruin my own fun! It's a possibility. Here I am typing not playing. :-)
Ahh crap well now I've given 4 examples. Someone else can list some.
As for the specific points you raise -
1) The entire model of how space flight works has been wrong from the release of the first film (Lucas has admitted he based the visuals on WW2 fighter combat) as, outside planetary atmospheres and in zero gravity, spaceships move in straight lines, not swoop in graceful curves. If you can't overlook how unrealistic it all is just stay away from everything Star Wars.
2) You choose to believe Hanharr was dead. His whole story is about how tough and hard to kill he was. So he looked dead. It is not impossible that he was not quite gone, that there was a spark of life left. As for whether Kreia could bring him back from that or even from death, who can say. She walked a path no-one else in the Star Wars universe has ever walked and who knows what might be possible.
3) I will give you the Twi'lek bounty hunters but since there is no mechanism in the game to stun or disable adversaries it is a difficult one to resolve. Possibly it should have been done entirely as a cutscene where Atton knocks them out with a gas or stun grenade.
Kreia? - She was stripped of her power by Nihilus and Sion. She regains that power by journeying with the Exile as he/she regains his/her connection to the force. Without the Exile she would have to find another way back.
Yes, there are dozens of minor continuity errors. Inevitable in a game where you can do stuff in a different order each time you play. More than anything, this game was rushed out and simply did not get the final polish a game usually gets and where these issues are usually resolved. So, even with TSLRCM, it is not a finished game, more like a beta version with at least one more release before the final version. If you won't see it as that and accept the flaws that go with not being properly finished, just don't play it.
You missed the point about what Kreia was teaching you. She was criticizing you for failing to make a value judgement. The first instance you're asked for cash, you get information in return. The second time, the guy offers you nothing. Your character either gives him a hand out or tells him to eff off cruelly. Both actions are inappropriate in her eyes. Your actions have consequences, ensure those consequences profit you directly.
Kreia praises you for numerous things most of which she assumes have a deeper motivation than mere cruelty or altruism for its own sake beyond this point.
Look at some of the basics... I'm supposed to be 'better' (we're not sure what better is, depending on how you play the exile) because of my disconnection to the force, yet I easily whipped the crap out of a guy that literally eats entire planets of lifeforce. I need no such sustenance, indeed, his hunger made him so weak that I never used a single heal. Same for Sion. I used 1 heal out of all of his resurrections or insta-full-heals or whatever... he was a pushover and I felt like I was picking on the deformed fat kid.
Again, so Kreia zaps three jedi masters at once, killing them all, when we've NEVER seen force lightning work that way, not since '77 and never even once... it's a stream attack that's damage-over-time... and lightsaber-armed jedi, even unarmed master jedi, can repel or redirect this... so she kills 3 armed master jedi in the blink of an eye with it. Zzzzap!
Now let's jump to the end... in fighting me, which again, will, as far as I know, kill me, but I don't care now.... her shocky lightning is so weak it barely drops my health, and I bash her with a few master criticals or master flurries and the fight's over, but then, after easily surviving her MEGA-ZAP (no idea what to call it) she summons - and let's face it, they are summoned! Did you see her toss out the sabers? Did you see them shimmer and un-stealth? Nope. They just appear. But now these lightsabers, bare blades of energy THAT THEMSELVES CANNOT TAKE DAMAGE, I assume I'm targeting the the components that make up the lightsaber, but they didn't plan for this end battle because the beams still clash together as though you were fighting a lightsaber-equipped opponent, which could go on indefinitely apparently - because in Star Wars, these things never seem to need power even though we know they've got power cell...
Hell in fact since there's three sabers and since she recently murdered 3 jedi masters armed with lightsabers, let's just say they're the spirits of those jedi, since they wanted to kill me anyway, she's now twisted their souls or energy or whatever... her uber lightning captured them, even. Anything. it would have been so EASY to turn that into a story point that could have been cool...
But no. It's just her and me and her weak-ass lightning that was devastating just a minute ago and these three very lethal summoned dancing lightsabers. Oy.
At this point I'm laughing so hard I die because I forget to heal, as they really do damage; and make her previous lightning attack seem like a child's illusion more than the devastating thing I witnessed before.
It's ludicrous. It's lazy. It's not that they are outlandish achievements for the Star Wars universe, it's that they have the construct, the universe as Lucas describes in movie/book/screenplay/graphic novel forms, and to be a great game, you only have to stay within the lane... and they are all over the place, making stuff up as they go, and worse, clearly planning something else, but then when it doesn't work (or doesn't work quickly enough, again it's a large company not an 10-person indie developer kickstarter game, there are things like deadlines) they scrap the whole concept and just sledgehammer another piece into place.
I haven't mentioned things like huge empty rooms that for some reason have lockers, or animal lifeforms that have human-related loot on them - although we can stretch the Mandalorians explanation as to what happened to the scanner components, all Star Wars life forms eat things they shouldn't - ;-) No, I leave these alone because it's a simple mechanic we've seen hundreds of times prior and since, it's not that it's dumb too (because it is) but we let it go... kill things, loot drops. So animals have gold or grenades, big deal?
But that's not story related. That doesn't contradict itself. The technical aspects you keep mentioning about the engine, if it were you, wouldn't you have used the cutscenes to explain stuff you couldn't figure out how to render? Of course you would. Anyone would. So why didn't obsidian? And why did lucasarts sign off on it?
Force Drain is not Force Lightning. I don't care about the rest of your diatribe, it's not relevant to my interests.
Because they wanted the game out for Christmas 2004 regardless of the state of the final release.
As I said previously "More than anything, this game was rushed out and simply did not get the final polish a game usually gets and where these issues are usually resolved. So, even with TSLRCM, it is not a finished game, more like a beta version with at least one more release before the final version.".
So it was inevitably a mess. Then they dropped any idea doing a third game and that was the end of it.
So pick away at it all you want, if it isn't enjoyable why are you playing it? If you do enjoy it, it is not going to be redone so go play it rather than go on about what irritates you and is not going to be fixed.
The disparity between what happens in combat and in the narrative is present just as much in kotor 1, you're often pulled into cutscenes after 1 hitting someone, after which they taunt you as if they posed a challenge. Its pretty clear from playing both that the combat wasn't meant to blend as easily with the story, it's more of a means to engagement between pieces of story. If you decide that seeing someone knocked down, lying prone means they are unequivocally dead because of what you did in combat, then nobody is going to convince you otherwise. It's your choice to suspend disbelief, you can go into any game and constantly blow off story elements just because its a game and nothing is real.
Immersion is a choice.
I want to be entertained, I want to dive in... through their lax attention to detail, and we're not talking finesse and finer points, we're talking huge swaths of story that span the entire game... it's more their fault than mine at this point. And I happily admit that my first playthrough at the beginning of this two weeks ago, I was much more tolerant and able to overlook it, even when I did notice it. On 2nd playthough it's literally angering. Hence the rants here. :-)
I re-iterate my previous rant about it being targeted at 12-year-old boys who can overlook everything when the see the Star Wars logo. You don't have to try very hard to impress 12-year olds, and they don't buy their own games but badger their parents to. It's a good system that's made many a company quite profitable. (we could argue '77 SW was also intended for 12-year-olds, tons of holes and great leaps of faith, but at least they delved more into the lore after finding out how well-received the franchise became.)
Sure at some points the plot does require the suspension of disbelief, but I never had a problem of differentiating game mechanics from plot mechanics. Of course if Kreia would actually (in game) battle the masters, that would probably have to be a long and boring fight to watch, which honestly I would not want to. Ofc, I would not want to insta die of 1 hit of her force drain either. As for Nihilius, I dunno how the Light side works out, but as for my playthrough, he tried to drain my PC (which if you have missed is a GIANT F*IN HOLE IN THE FORCE, just as your boy Nihilius) and so he was weakened. Especially since it was a long time since he last fed, and Telos was a dead world so he could not regain his energy from there either. As for Kreia resurrecting, I always thought that the people she resurrected, are not 100% dead, since in most of these situations the characters do have to leave in a rather quick manner (both if you´re with Mira, you have to "urgently" open the door for the PC, and as for Atton against those sexy sexy Twi´leks, he literally runs away to warn the others, plus I remember the twin suns saying that "he should´ve went for the kill") Do bear in mind that I play the game with the TSLRCM. I cannot comment about the release state as I played it w/o TSLRCM that I don´t even remember (or want to find out) what´s it like. Too bad the game was rushed. These stories from the old republic are way more interesting then the movies. (you can also see that I don´t really care much for the "lucas canon", I´m an old EU Canon fan.)
But this seems stupid to me (no offense) literally saying the game makes no sense because game mechanic reasons. It´s like Borderlands 2 doesn´t make any sense because everybody can just get revived(which is a game mechanic, not a plot one). I get what you mean though, I just don´t agree with it especially considering that this is what more then a decade old game?
1-well this was the most obvious point in kotor 2 you need to have the tslrcm to be able to enjoy the whole experience,since without it you will have to pass the game with tons of bugs,glitches or secondary missions that are not completed in the vanilla version of the game something that the first game does not need.
2-you play as revan the dark lord of the sith basically a character that has major evolution than meetra surik (the exile) in any way pd:curious fact the exile considered revan as the most powerful force user he meet in his entire life this fact proves that revan is superior to nihilus,sion and traya:
Revan had a greater command of the Force than Darth Nihilus, a Sith entity that raised a fleet of warships into space and drained the life force of many planets, according to Meetra Surik.
It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else [Meetra Surik] had ever met.
-Star Wars The Old Republic - Revan
3-even if the history of the first game is not that fleshed out that in the sequel quite possibly the revelation on the leviathan is the most interesting plot twist in rpg history.