Are the kotor games canon to star wars lore?

[Uncle Jon]

I was curious because after Disney acquired the rights to this series, I think I heard they changed certain things that are canon to star wars. Like certain books, shows, and games are no longer considered canon to the star wars universe. So I was curious if the kotor games are canon?

[fauxpas]

No, they aren't just like the rest of the expanded universe, this was actually done by Lucas.


However, apparently there is a canon "Darth Revan" but we don't know anything about him.

[psychotron666420]

The only thing confirmed canon from the games is the mandalorian wars. Which likely means revan and Malak are canon because they were the ones who brought the Jedi into the war.

The mass shadow generator was made canon in clone wars tv show, but it was completely different from the mass shadow generator in Kotor 2, so likely makes Kotor 2 non canon and the exile using it to destroy malachoir v.

[cerberusiv]

Basically nothing is canon if it isn't in the original movies and the TV series or in any movies released under the Disney name. So Disney got rid of most of the expanded universe in one shot, thus leaving plenty of room for more Disney authorised content.

Kotor 2 was never entirely canon as there are multiple discrepancies with The Old Republic game which followed and some other stuff that was considered canon under Lucas.

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

Basically nothing is canon if it isn't in the original movies and the TV series or in any movies released under the Disney name. So Disney got rid of most of the expanded universe in one shot, thus leaving plenty of room for more Disney authorised content.

Kotor 2 was never entirely canon as there are multiple discrepancies with The Old Republic game which followed and some other stuff that was considered canon under Lucas.

None of the expanded universe was canon under George Lucas either. He actually hated the expanded universe and knew nothing about it except to skim a wiki to make sure he wasn't using a name or idea from it.

Disney at least made some of it canon, like thrawn for example. Disney just turned it into "legends" where some may be canon and some won't, based on their whims if they want to take ideas from it, whereas under Lucas it was all explicitly non canon.

[Ragnarök]

They were part of the C (Continuity) canon pre-Disney buyout, which means they had to conform to criteria that George Lucas set to fall in line with G (Films) and T (Television) canon and there was an entire team of people employed by Lucasfilm to ensure that was the case.

Being around back then, there was scarcely a conversation or argument among fans that did not take the EU into account. Whatever GL stated to the contrary, the EU was considered de facto canon because of that enforced concord and the amount of detail that would be lacking if it was ignored.

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by Ragnarök:

They were part of the C (Continuity) canon pre-Disney buyout, which means they had to conform to criteria that George Lucas set to fall in line with G (Films) and T (Television) canon and there was an entire team of people employed by Lucasfilm to ensure that was the case.

Being around back then, there was scarcely a conversation or argument among fans that did not take the EU into account. Whatever GL stated to the contrary, the EU was considered de facto canon because of that enforced concord and the amount of detail that would be lacking if it was ignored.

“There are two worlds here; There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books.”

– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001

"I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

-George Lucas, 2005 when asked about the EU.


“While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.”

-star wars official statement in 2014 after buying out the franchise https://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page

Disney never decanonized anything, because none of it was canon to begin with. If anything Disney made the EU more canon than it was by branding them legends and basically saying they will pick and choose any material from the EU to be in canon future projects as they see fit.

[Ragnarök]

Originally posted by psychotron666420:

Disney never decanonized anything, because none of it was canon to begin with. If anything Disney made the EU more canon than it was by branding them legends and basically saying they will pick and choose any material from the EU to be in canon future projects as they see fit.

It was literally called C-canon bud. George Lucas being aloof and TL;DR-ing his own property doesn't really matter, it was all his and he was entitled to engage in the parts of it he wished and contract away the parts he didn't. His quotes are irrelevant because as I said, de facto the community always factored C-canon into discussion and argument for two reasons. One, because G-canon alone lacked the detail to discuss at length and two, because G and T were already included in continuity canon by default.

Anytime you discuss the KotOR series, even to this day, you are doing so within C-canon and must accept all the trappings that come with it. Revan was male and redeemed, the Star Forge was destroyed, the Sith were defeated in the Great Hyperspace War. etc. These were never intended as "Legends" that you could pick and choose from. This was the timeline of events.

Disney didn't do anything to make the EU more canon. Their policy toward it is identical to GL's which is to plunder parts they feel like to bolster their own work. Lucas did this for the Prequels and the Clone Wars television series. On the contrary, Disney killed the EU because no further work will ever be added to it and all future work must conform to the dreck they've been making since 2015.

[Vuyek]

the simple answer is yes

the advanced answer is ANYTHING FROM DISNEY is poo poo and can be safely ignored

[Hitori]

they were until the dark age of disney happened

[psychotron666420]

Originally posted by Ragnarök:

Originally posted by psychotron666420:

Disney never decanonized anything, because none of it was canon to begin with. If anything Disney made the EU more canon than it was by branding them legends and basically saying they will pick and choose any material from the EU to be in canon future projects as they see fit.

It was literally called C-canon bud. George Lucas being aloof and TL;DR-ing his own property doesn't really matter, it was all his and he was entitled to engage in the parts of it he wished and contract away the parts he didn't. His quotes are irrelevant because as I said, de facto the community always factored C-canon into discussion and argument for two reasons. One, because G-canon alone lacked the detail to discuss at length and two, because G and T were already included in continuity canon by default.

Anytime you discuss the KotOR series, even to this day, you are doing so within C-canon and must accept all the trappings that come with it. Revan was male and redeemed, the Star Forge was destroyed, the Sith were defeated in the Great Hyperspace War. etc. These were never intended as "Legends" that you could pick and choose from. This was the timeline of events.

Disney didn't do anything to make the EU more canon. Their policy toward it is identical to GL's which is to plunder parts they feel like to bolster their own work. Lucas did this for the Prequels and the Clone Wars television series. On the contrary, Disney killed the EU because no further work will ever be added to it and all future work must conform to the dreck they've been making since 2015.

George Lucas policy was that all the extended universe was a separate universe from his own. Disney policy is that they are "legends" and may be true, untrue or half true until Disney decides to use the material.

George never used extended universe canon, and if he did, it was accidental as in he didn't know it was a thing in the EU. He was pretty adamant and clear that Luke did not get married and Palpatine didn't clone himself.

So Kotor was never canon. As much as I'd love it to be, it never was under Lucas. It may be canon later if Disney uses it, but as of now it's been changed from explicitly non canon to a "legend"

[Ragnarök]

A separate universe with its own canon, that was paid for and managed tightly by Lucas ltd.. To George, his six films and much later his TV series, were the only things he cared about. But no, he intentionally lifted plenty from the EU whenever it would serve to bolster his narrow window of interest. Coruscant, the Rule of Two, Aayla Secura, Double-bladed lightsabers etc. There's lists you can find with the specifics.

Often, he'd make dumb superficial changes like renaming Korriban to "Moraband" because "the name might confuse people because it sounds like Coruscant" (after over a decade of use and zero confusion lol). Inadvertently, this turned Korriban into a good shibboleth to show which canon people actually adhere to.

This was George though, for better or worse, an egotist. I like the guy, especially his tight control on his personal work, but I don't believe he was being honest with himself in many of his statements. The differences he purported between his six films and the EU existed primarily in his head. Certainly, since even within the EU, his works held preeminence anyway and could not be contradicted.

[Shinigami Miroku]

Lucas wasn't perfect, by any means, but he knew enough to avoid pissing off his fans as much as possible (outside of his ego getting in the way of good script-writing in the Prequels, but that's because the people in Hollywood in 1977 weren't nearly as strong as those in 1999/2000 and no one wanted to take him to task), so while he can state whatever he wants in official interviews but, as shown, he did in fact take the EU into account where he needed to, and that is enough to consider it canon (a secondary canon in comparison to the movies and show, but canon nonetheless - which is better than having it being cannibalized by a Rat on life-support for "original content" that ends up being the complete antithesis to what Star Wars has always been about).

[fauxpas]

It was his then wife that mostly reigned him in.

[psychotron666420]

Lucas was weird and I'm pretty sure he has Asperger's. His changes to the original were changing of canon, like he was adamant that greedo shot first because he changed it to make solo less skeezy despite that being a big part of the story and his change of heart.

He threw out all the plans for episode 6 because he wanted to sell more toys and make a simpler story that ends on a good note for the kids, while also creating massive plot holes while doing so.

His ego was so big part of his deal with Disney was that they could never ever re release the original star wars cuts because they were non canon according to Lucas.

But as far as the EU went, it was mostly all fan fiction of varying quality, that's why many of the EU contradicts even other EU. But in Lucas own mind, it was a completely separate universe from his own.

[KamikazeCommie]

kotor is more canon than disney ever will be