This game sucks compared to KOTOR 1

[them4pples]

I'm 21 hours in at nar shaddaa and don't even feel like playing anymore. this game honestly feels like an indie game (and not the good kind of indie games), while the first one felt triple A. the areas are empty and have a copy paste feel. some areas feel too big just for the hell of it like every area is manaan from kotor 1 lol. the fetch quests in talos were annoying af. you don't get your first light saber until way further in and it doesn't even feel special. it's just like "hey here's your lightsaber." becoming a jedi in the first game felt so much better. you get that nice pay off and it's right after the first area, which was done super well compared to the boring ass mining facility with wannabe han solo.

while the game is worse as a whole compared to the first one imo, it does still have some good qualities. skills having a purpose in dialogue is cool. you can see obsidian use that in their later games as well. combat is the same, but there are more options. there's cooler gear, but you kinda get showered in it and having no tab to sort new gear only is just dumb. why get rid of that. that was the main way i organized my inv in kotor 1. inv management is a drag in kotor2. i like the grey jedi aspect of the game as well. everything isn't black and white and it makes you think of your choices.

i played the first one for around 50 hours and jumped right into this one, so maybe im just burnt out and need to give it a try another time, but so far, i just don't see how ppl can think this game is better than the masterpiece that is kotor1. kotor 1 was a bioware rpg when they were at their peak. obsidian make good games too, but they're always rough around the edges and kotor 2 is no exception.

[fauxpas]

People like KOTOR(2) because Kiera is one of the best written characters in the franchise and it expands upon the way Revan thought and acted ... before the MMO ruined him.


But it's tone is different from the more straight forward heroes journey that KOTOR(1) was and that isn't for everyone.

[them4pples]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

People like KOTOR(2) because Kiera is one of the best written characters in the franchise and it expands upon the way Revan thought and acted ... before the MMO ruined him.


But it's tone is different from the more straight forward heroes journey that KOTOR(1) was and that isn't for everyone.

yeah i can see that. kreia is one of the main reasons i wanted to keep playing. her character is written very well. it's a chris avellone character through and through. i want to learn more about visas as well, but i can't trudge through the game enough for it. mayb eonce the kotor 1 remake comes out, i'll try this game again.

i do feel like playing through the first one and then immediately into this one burned me out a bit.

[fauxpas]

That's fair, the tone is different enough it's jarring and I recommend people not jump into the sequel immediately after playing the first game.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Tends to agree, but I think KOTOR2 is better in term of narrative, but with heavy pinch of salt.

I never play this game without restoration mod but it's seems to me that every piece of dialogue seems a lot more "deep" feeling to it compared to original, it's like every 3 minutes every one of my companion trying to lecture me about the philosophy and ideologies and stuff, even if the meaning of every sentence is simple, the way they delivered the lines just make it heavy, like it's tad more dramatic than it should be ---- KOTOR2 ultimately, are closer to experiencing movies rather than games (it's both good and bad thing side of it),.

Notice how many times you need to skip the dialogue in KOTOR2 compared in KOTOR (especially when you do your 2nd playthrough, I did 2 playthrough in immediate succession for KOTOR and I notice, even though I heard the same line before, I noticeably did not skip the dialogue as often).

KOTOR is elegant in it's simplicity and far more superior in pacing. Every piece of dialogue does not have to be a thesis debate, every intention are understood completely without scratching your head, and every NPC doesn't feel like about to dump you with a thesis to hear.

Ultimately I think both game are fantastic. But if I HAD to chose, I chose the first one.

[PantsuMask]

I kinda wish bioware made kotor2.. I feel a lot like you do.. this one is just not that great but.. I feel i want to finish it just to see the fuss. But, Man... Kotor1 is just far better in all aspects. 20hours so far.. into I do hope this becomes interesting like Kotor1. it does feel a bit 3rd rate team sitting on the sidelines and got to work on a game or something...

[Dallas S]

IMO Kotor 2 is better in every way, but there were some cool aspects of Kotor 1. The first one's twist while predictable was still pretty cool.

I find that Kotor 1 loses lots of its charm after 1 play through and you start seeing the flaws, but has a good wow factor the first time through.

While Kotor 2 has less of a wow factor the first time, but after more replays you realize how much more deep it is.

My favourite part of the second besides the dialogue is the influence system and being able to turn all your companions into Jedi, and turn them good or evil.

All the different choices, and even the story starts to jump out at you more in the second game after a play through.

[cerberusiv]

Quite simply, Lucasarts screwed Obsidian over the release date. Skipping the details, the result was that the game was not ready but was rushed out for Xmas 2005. So large parts did not get done to a proper standard.

The whole point of the Restored Content Mod was to put back as much as possible that did not make it into the game. (Aided by the original devs hiding quite a lot of material that did not make the final release on the various diskd). So don't bother playing without TSLRCM installed.

[Vennek]

I think the difference between KOTOR1 and KOTOR2 that often gets cited but variously described is a difference in atmosphere. KOTOR1 felt a bit more light side, had simpler crafting and other shortcomings but overall felt more heroic and a more pleasant gameworld to spend time in. KOTOR2 is depressing, oppressive, dystopic. There's no real pleasant gamespace in game except for Citadel Station, and as far as pleasant spaces generally go getting thrown in a holding cell, having someone try to kill you, and getting your ship carjacked doesn't really rate.

The music is better in KOTOR1, more variable and more variance in moods evoked. Manaan and Tatooine showcase this upbeat mood caused purely by music and the perception of a culture that isn't beset by war, rampant organized crime, etc.

KOTOR2 had better dialogue and so better writing in a sense but the overall vibe of KOTOR1 vs KOTOR2 was that the first game was more polished, more perfect, less buggy out of the box, and "felt" more like Star Wars, like a traditional zero-to-hero story.

[dprog1995]

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

Quite simply, Lucasarts screwed Obsidian over the release date. Skipping the details, the result was that the game was not ready but was rushed out for Xmas 2005. So large parts did not get done to a proper standard.

The whole point of the Restored Content Mod was to put back as much as possible that did not make it into the game. (Aided by the original devs hiding quite a lot of material that did not make the final release on the various diskd). So don't bother playing without TSLRCM installed.

Lucasarts didn't screw over Obsidian. Obsidian themselves screwed over themselves.

Obsidian also made Neverwinter nights 2 and Fallout new Vegas with other publishers and those 2 games also felt "rushed".

After E3 2004, Lucasarts told Obsidian to release the game during christmas and Obsidian had more than 6 months time to make their game ready to release for christmas.(Which they failed)

They had 14 months of development time to make a good story for their game and in the end their game didn't even have a good written ending.

[Dallas S]

Originally posted by dprog1995:

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

Quite simply, Lucasarts screwed Obsidian over the release date. Skipping the details, the result was that the game was not ready but was rushed out for Xmas 2005. So large parts did not get done to a proper standard.

The whole point of the Restored Content Mod was to put back as much as possible that did not make it into the game. (Aided by the original devs hiding quite a lot of material that did not make the final release on the various diskd). So don't bother playing without TSLRCM installed.

Lucasarts didn't screw over Obsidian. Obsidian themselves screwed over themselves.

Obsidian also made Neverwinter nights 2 and Fallout new Vegas with other publishers and those 2 games also felt "rushed".

After E3 2004, Lucasarts told Obsidian to release the game during christmas and Obsidian had more than 6 months time to make their game ready to release for christmas.(Which they failed)

They had 14 months of development time to make a good story for their game and in the end their game didn't even have a good written ending.

Obsidian actually asked for an extension so they could increase the scope of the game. According to feargus Urquhart they said yes, but then 2 weeks before the initial Christmas time release date, Lucas arts told them to release it or not get paid.

Feargus says he made a mistake by not getting the extension in writing.

New Vegas was a little different. They asked Bethesda for an extension, but Bethesda simply said no, because they didn't want dlc for new Vegas to interfere with their upcoming Skyrim sales. They didn't get screwed over here, just weren't able to get longer.

Obsidian seems to be very ambitious with their games as their big weakness, and underestimating how much time things will take. But the LucasArts thing they actually got screwed by

[dprog1995]

That 2 week before christmas thing is wrong though. After E3 2004 LA told them to release the game at the original release date.
https://kotaku.com/the-knights-of-new-vegas-5968952

So they had enough time to actually fix it's ending.

[Rhalius]

Sadly before they started working for themselves, releasing buggy incomplete sequels to other people's franchises was Obsidian's thing.

KOTOR2 does stand way above Neverwinter Nights 2 though which is still the most disappointing sequel to anything I ever played. With Dungeon Siege 3 I already knew it would be terrible so made no illusions there.

KOTOR 2 certainly does have plenty going for it, but even with the restored content it feels incomplete. Better player dialogue is the main advantage, as well as some quality of life improvements like actual robes and being able to see a container is empty without having to open it.

The ending is just very disappointing. Everything you do just feels rather meaningless and they just jump the shark. Being unable to toss Kreia out of the airlock or something kind of bothers me too considering how obviously she's undermining you.
She's an interesting character, but poorly executed in the final act.

I like how she subverts the wise master trope, but it does get a bit tiresome when EVERY character is diverting from their usual trope. It can feel a bit tedious and like they are too desperately trying to avoid tropes there.

The influence system is a bit of a mess too and could have used some fine tuning or more ways to improve or decrease it.

It does take way too long to get a lightsaber, especially since you literally beat people with lightsabers before you assemble your own so should just be able to loot those. And as a former Jedi you know how to construct one and had a decade to make a new one.
Fortunately a mod can easily fix that problem.

KOTOR1's main flaw is the horrible player dialogue options which tend to be limited to:
-No reward is necessary, please have my credits instead.
-Thanks for the reward.
-Gimme more or I'll kill you!

But KOTOR1 is a finished game, with a satisfying conclusion and actually allows for pretty different light and dark endings. With KOTOR2 it's just one ending really.
It has a better pacing to it.
And no companions I feel stuck with so to speak that I'd rather throw out the airlock.

In KOTOR2 I have that with GOTO and Hanharr. Especially GOTO just feel like they made him up last minute. Just some generic droid thing that has no added value to T3 and HK-47.
Got pretty tired of T3 too, being forced to keep using him.
Kreia is well written but her treasonous stuff just is pushed too far, makes me want to toss her out too. No sensible person would keep her around.

[cl656]

I don't think either game sucks, but there is something about Kotor 1 that feels more polished.

[dprog1995]

Yeah. I also hated GOTO. And I wanted to get rid of him but the game didn't allow.

[JuanSoloWing]

Give it another try. I started this game back in January and left it in March at Nar Shaddaa because I couldn't stand the zone. A few weeks ago I decided to continue with my save and I really don't regret it. The story is much more interesting in the rest of zones and it gets better and better as you progress.