charisma is better for force powers

[ProxyJames]

So I was looking over some stuff in the game and the save for force powers are your wisdom + your charisma, knowing this wouldn't be better to stack charisma in place of wisdom, so long as wisdom is at 10 or higher then you still get full benefit from any bonuses to it you get but charisma also lowers the cost of force powers so win-win right?

[Dethlane]

Not really. Charisma lowers the increase of FP cost for Force powers of different alignment (like Force storm for LS char, Force heal for DS char and so on). Wisdom increases your FP and their regeneration rate (allowing you to cast more Force powers regardless of alignment and more frequently).

[ProxyJames]

yeah but at one point in the game, regardless of class, you have a TON of force points

[ProxyJames]

also there are alot of items that buff wisdom, so you can start off high cha and then get a bunch of items for wisdom and end up with all your spells having a DC of 20+

[cerberusiv]

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

yeah but at one point in the game, regardless of class, you have a TON of force points

This is the point. Regardless of whether you go light or dark, which jedi class you choose or anything else, once you reach Prestige rank at lvl 15 your character will have more FP than they are likely to need or use. So CHA looks to offer a benefit but in reality the "benefit" isquite small and basicallyirrelevant.

[psychotron666]

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

yeah but at one point in the game, regardless of class, you have a TON of force points

This is the point. Regardless of whether you go light or dark, which jedi class you choose or anything else, once you reach Prestige rank at lvl 15 your character will have more FP than they are likely to need or use. So CHA looks to offer a benefit but in reality the "benefit" isquite small and basicallyirrelevant.

I think the benefit he's talking about is the save DC of spells, not force points or cost of spells.

[ProxyJames]

yeah the logic is that the game gives the MC alot of free force points from things like training with granny, various world stuff and working on t3 so wisdom is not as important BUT the game does throw ALOT of items that buff wisdom so you will end up with a super high wisdom score anyways. with a high wisdom AND charisma scores you get a big spell DC

consider the following items
mental boost D-package
+3 to cha, wisdom and cha

Ossus Keeper Robe
+2 cha
+4 to int and wis

Force focusing Visor
+1 cha
+4 wisdom

Jal Shey Mentor Belt
+2 wisdom

Jal Shey Meditation Gloves
+2 wisdom

name crystal
+7 wisdom (when full light side)

that and whatever other wisdom buff crystals for your sabers (I know there is crystals that give +1, +2 to wisdom and one that +3 to wisdom, cha and int)

so with those items alone you get like 28 wisdom and 9 cha so wisdom really shouldn't be a big investment point for casting (for contest if you have a flat 10 in each wis and cha with these items on your spell DC would be like 20, if you start of consular thats another +3 to your spell DC)

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

yeah but at one point in the game, regardless of class, you have a TON of force points

True, even my marauder with 10 wis by endgame had enough FP and regen to be able to uptime Force speed and rage without having to wait for FP to recover, so I guess consular+master/lord won't have an issue spamming Force attacks, especially since you'll be buffing wisdom/charisma through equipment. But then lowering Force powers cost doesn't mean much as well (especially since it's only for opposite-alignment Force powers). So it's pretty much up to which skills you need bonus for (wisdom-related or charisma-related) and whether you want higher will saves or higher companions attack.

[ProxyJames]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

yeah but at one point in the game, regardless of class, you have a TON of force points

True, even my marauder with 10 wis by endgame had enough FP and regen to be able to uptime Force speed and rage without having to wait for FP to recover, so I guess consular+master/lord won't have an issue spamming Force attacks, especially since you'll be buffing wisdom/charisma through equipment. But then lowering Force powers cost doesn't mean much as well (especially since it's only for opposite-alignment Force powers). So it's pretty much up to which skills you need bonus for (wisdom-related or charisma-related) and whether you want higher will saves or higher companions attack.

well force speed doesn't stack with fury its one or the other for that but for full force power build I do recommend starting as a consular, they get a ton of force points per level and extra force power DC then if you want big damage from force powers sith lords cursh is stupid strong if noy go watchman or assassin because they get more FP than weapon master or maurader but not jedi master as all they get is slightly more force powers, all classes get 1 force power every level, master/ lord gets a extra 1 at the first level, another extra force power at level 4 and then after that they get to pick one extra force power every 4th level same as consular so your maybe getting 10 extra force power and the thing is, your only going to be finding so many useful, if your a caster force valor to buff your spell DC a bit, on that note only level 1 and level 3 of valor is really useful because level 1 gives a +2 bonus to all your stats (a effective buff of +1 to all your saves, attack and damage rolls and DC) level 2 is a +3 buff witch will only be useful if you have a uneven number for your scores and level 3 is a +5 witch translates out to a +2 bonus or a +3 if you have uneven scores

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

well force speed doesn't stack with fury its one or the other

Only extra attacks part doesn't stack, everything else stacks just fine. And IIRC the limit is 5 attacks per round, which is easily achieved through double (or duo) saber, master Force speed (or fury) and juyo form (or flurry).

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

for full force power build I do recommend starting as a consular

True, for Force build go consular + master/lord. I wasn't aiming at that with said character (hence 10 wis), she was pretty much unstoppable tank and primary damage dealer (except heavy crowds, which usually got rekt by Kreia and Visas's Force storm).

[ProxyJames]

actually max attacks per round is 6! the game can only display 5 attacks though, information taken from this sight (scroll down to where it covers the juyo form) https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II:_The_Sith_Lords/Forms.
I know were talking force DCs but you can get some sick damage off using two weapons, juyo, master speed/fury and flurry OR skip on flurry if your using a keen weapon and use crit strike. (its too bad HK is a non jedi because master speed + two disruptor pistol with keen and crit strike with his assassin thing would be stupid OP)

[studman619]

Originally posted by psychotron666:

Originally posted by cerberusiv:

This is the point. Regardless of whether you go light or dark, which jedi class you choose or anything else, once you reach Prestige rank at lvl 15 your character will have more FP than they are likely to need or use. So CHA looks to offer a benefit but in reality the "benefit" isquite small and basicallyirrelevant.

I think the benefit he's talking about is the save DC of spells, not force points or cost of spells.

Yeah, Wisdom is what determines how much a target can resist force powers when you cast them
Consider this: When you use the droid force power chain (i.e. stun, disable, destroy) the target sometimes will shut down and be stunned when you cast it. With high Wisdom score, that shut down/stun effect happens EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[J.C. Denton]

I'd say for male characters high wis is >>> cha, just because of handmaiden's traning.
For a female it depends... I wouldnt rely much on cha bonus to reduce cost, because from my expireience even as guardian\maradeur by the middle of the game you'll have insane amount of SP that will never end normally, especially if you're using force focus. As consular (and sith lord or jedi master) this sp would be doubled, and with ~400 sp it doesnt really matter if you spend 10 or 35 on Lightning Storm.

Besides wisdom bonus is adding to threat injury and will saves I found it pretty useless: I never used a single medpack in KOTOR 2 and havent notice any enemy used something will affecting. Maybe just one Terror on Atton...

Cha bonus in other case is persuade bonus, wich is helpfull, I guess. It seems current steam version got checks DC alike KOTOR 1, so to pass it you may keep your persuade skill up to your level + X. But as Force user you will start with something like 16 wis 16 cha anyway, and collect items both for + wis and +cha. Might be enough for any checks.

[ProxyJames]

Originally posted by J.C. Denton:

I'd say for male characters high wis is >>> cha, just because of handmaiden's traning.
For a female it depends... I wouldnt rely much on cha bonus to reduce cost, because from my expireience even as guardian\maradeur by the middle of the game you'll have insane amount of SP that will never end normally, especially if you're using force focus. As consular (and sith lord or jedi master) this sp would be doubled, and with ~400 sp it doesnt really matter if you spend 10 or 35 on Lightning Storm.

Besides wisdom bonus is adding to threat injury and will saves I found it pretty useless: I never used a single medpack in KOTOR 2 and havent notice any enemy used something will affecting. Maybe just one Terror on Atton...

Cha bonus in other case is persuade bonus, wich is helpfull, I guess. It seems current steam version got checks DC alike KOTOR 1, so to pass it you may keep your persuade skill up to your level + X. But as Force user you will start with something like 16 wis 16 cha anyway, and collect items both for + wis and +cha. Might be enough for any checks.

eh by end game the enemies to hit bonus will be so high your AC will just not matter anymore. same goes for the players characters, the bonuses you get to hit just won't matter, you can have a really strong blaster build but only 10 in dex because everyone to hit bonus scales with there level but not there AC. like I got like a 50 something to hit and everything AC is like MAYBE 25

[J.C. Denton]

Originally posted by ProxyJames:

eh by end game the enemies to hit bonus will be so high your AC will just not matter anymore. same goes for the players characters, the bonuses you get to hit just won't matter, you can have a really strong blaster build but only 10 in dex because everyone to hit bonus scales with there level but not there AC. like I got like a 50 something to hit and everything AC is like MAYBE 25

Thats true for any other builds. As normal jedi using jedi armor you are able to reach 35 to 45 AC. Consider you end game lvl 30, Darth Sion will have 42 to hit, which means he will able to hit you 80-95% of times.

But as wis-based robe-wearer you can easily add around 15 to this number, just because you add your wis mod to AC (that will be around 15-20 fully buffed but with some losses in dexterity and AC from armor against regular builds). This means you can reach 50-60 AC which is 10-60% hit chance for Sion at your character lvl 30. Pretty reasonable defence as for me.

[J.C. Denton]

well until you use glitches and lvl up to 50 of corse... In this case no AC ever will matter :-D Nothing to do against 60+ to hit from both sides.

Just realized I completely forgot about defensive emmiters and lenses on lightsaber which you never use on normal builds... That's extra +6. Useless in most other cases Force aura is another +6... Which means with wis to defence you may reach AC high enough to dodge 95% of any attacks, including very endgame. And thats without suffering any DC losses on your Force Powers.