Another TBT game with time limit

[fastica]

Why does this kind of games always have time limits??
Is it much to ask an option to grind at my own pace?

[Mitth'raw'nuruodo]

They could have kept the timer. And then when the timer is over, the main campaign is over, but could have allowed players to continue playing - complete all missions, level up characters, replay old missions etc,

Or could have added a campaign customization option to scale the timer up and down.

There are plenty of similar games allow either one or both of those options - Regalia of Men and Monarchs, Expeditions: Viking, Invisible Inc etc.

I am big fan of turn based strategy, primarily because I don't like being rushed. So this is a deal breaker for me.

[Stubbieoz]

Originally posted by NeKryXe:

I still didn't play any mission with time limit but now I'm getting many missions with very limited numbers of turns and I'm playing in normal difficulty. Usually I even play this games in ironmode, but the limitation of turns are quickly making me lose the interest in this game. Maybe we'll get one mod to remove this limitations one day. Let's hope so.

Anyway, turn limits is still better than time limit. Time limit means immediate quit for me.

Turn limits!!
That's it for me then.
Sounds like this game has the trifecta of bad game play decisions imho for a tactical turn based game.
Time limits/turn limits/continuous reinforcements.

A shame, the game actually looked good.

[Engioc]

Originally posted by NeKryXe:

I still didn't play any mission with time limit but now I'm getting many missions with very limited numbers of turns and I'm playing in normal difficulty. Usually I even play this games in ironmode, but the limitation of turns are quickly making me lose the interest in this game. Maybe we'll get one mod to remove this limitations one day. Let's hope so.

Anyway, turn limits is still better than time limit. Time limit means immediate quit for me.

It's not that there is a turn limit within missions. So there is the overall time limit on the "D-Day timer which is present on the Campaign Map" as per the mod post. However, while you can take as many turns as you like within a mission, what some people don't like is that you are forced to rush to an exit point because of the unlimited reinforcements, so in a sense, there is a limit on how long you can take before it becomes pointless and you have to exit the mission.

I don't mind unlimited reinforcements sometimes, but like the D-Day timer I feel like it's a lazy way of creating difficulty and tension to the mission. To me, it doesn't always make sense that there is an unlimited supply of reinforcements close by, we're talking about WW2 and a period where communications were still rather limited, especially over long distances, so calling up unlimited reinforcements makes no sense.

If I've successfully completed all my objectives, why is there a need to rush me to an exit point, I'm going to leave anyway since the mission is done and I have nothing left to do. The position of these exit points also makes no sense because they can be located right in the middle of the enemy camp not far from where the reinforcements are coming from. In a behind-enemy-lines situation, we would be either walking out, or at best being picked up by a friendly in a vehicle, but they're not going to drive into the middle of combat to get you.

I would rather see there be a system where there are 2 or more exit points scattered around the edge of the map, because that is a more plausible pickup point, and instead of having this weird unlimited supply of reinforcements they could just place more enemy units between us and the exit points so I still have to fight my way out. If we've gone loud then those units would already be on alert waiting for us, so no chance of stealth.

It is of course up to each person to decide how you want to spend your money, but despite a few issues with this game I would encourage people to give it a chance, the game works, its just that some things could be better. If you checkout the dev videos on this game it sounds like they've already committed to long term support of this game, and adding more content, so there is every chance these issues will get sorted.

[Stubbieoz]

Originally posted by Engioc:

..........> so there is every chance these issues will get sorted.

I'll keep an eye on the game for now to see if that is indeed the case.

As much as I love playing tactical turn based games this does sound like a game that would only frustrate me, due to it sounding like there is the need to finish the missions quickly, rather than tactfully.

[zippythezip]

bummer

[Óðinn]

i've taken this game off my wishlist because of this nonsense, but will check back to see if the devs mange to properly fix things....i doubt they will at this stage

[suejak]

I don't really get the complaints. Do you guys not like challenging games, or...?

The D-Day timer is literally the campaign. Time is a resource. Make the most of your resources to win the game. If they gave you infinite time on the campaign screen, then wounds and fatigue would be meaningless.

The reinforcements totally depend on the mission. There are not infinite reinforcements on all missions, but even if and when there are, they serve the purpose of putting extra pressure on you to MOVE for the objective or exit so you can't just sit back and cheese your way to victory.

If you don't enjoy challenging games, then I can imagine why you might not like these two things. However, without them, I think people like me would call the game too easy and give it a pass for that reason. Can't please all of the people all of the time.

[suejak]

Originally posted by Branco:

Damn, I was ready to buy the game but for some random reason I decided to check some comments about it before. As much as I was looking for this game, I know that I won't be happy playing with timers and unlimited reinforcements. Dude, this is sad, I thought this would be the game that would give a new look to the genre... with all that talk about how it was designed to last, mission creator, etc.

Also read that the customization of the characters is also very limited, is it true?

What do you mean by "limited customization"? Each class has a skill tree with four subclasses, and the skill system is free-form with nodes so you can create any hybrid you want, assuming you have the experience.

The limitations come in terms of the fact that characters are pre-written like Jagged Alliance, but you will not have the same squad each game because recruitment missions are binary, so you take one and miss one as you go.

The classes have class-specific weapons and clothing is restricted by nationality. The weapons are perhaps a bit too restrictive, but it's basically a Firaxis XCOM-like system where the sniper snipes and the heavy heavies.

If you want to run more or less of a particular weapon, you can just run more or less of a particular class, assuming you recruited those classes.

So I think especially the leveling system is plenty free-form in design.

[Sandsifter]

Originally posted by suejak:

I don't really get the complaints. Do you guys not like challenging games, or...?

The D-Day timer is literally the campaign. Time is a resource. Make the most of your resources to win the game. If they gave you infinite time on the campaign screen, then wounds and fatigue would be meaningless.

The reinforcements totally depend on the mission. There are not infinite reinforcements on all missions, but even if and when there are, they serve the purpose of putting extra pressure on you to MOVE for the objective or exit so you can't just sit back and cheese your way to victory.

If you don't enjoy challenging games, then I can imagine why you might not like these two things. However, without them, I think people like me would call the game too easy and give it a pass for that reason. Can't please all of the people all of the time.

That's one of the reasons we have "option" menus. You can please most of the people most of the time, by giving them choices as to how they want to approach a game

[KConan]

I don't like the D-Day timer, but it's not a big deal for me. In-mission timers and perpetual reinforcements on the other hand I can't stand. BUT, with that said, I don't regret buying the game and its fun outside of the slowness (as mentioned elsewhere) and mission timers. I'm simply avoiding missions that have timers, and that has helped soften the blow of what I find is irritating game mechanic. Pretty good game otherwise in terms of strategy, cool loot, fun characters, and graphics (from an art standpoint more than sharpness).

[lee]

Lead designer here. I think the OP gives an incorrect impression, and it's sad some people have cancelled their purchase because of this. To confirm:

Missions DO NOT have time limits that end the mission on completion of a timer. We do not like those any more than you.

Some missions DO have timers that count down to arrival of enemies, or somesuch. Or where secondary objectives (NEVER primary objectives) require completion of tasks within time limits. They do not end on completion of those timers.

The campaign DOES have a countdown to D-Day that limits the number of missions before the campaign is complete. There are mechanics that accelerate time so in you can complete the campaign in fewer missions, BUT this means a lower score.

Some missions DO have unlimited enemy reinforcements to add a soft limit to missions and pressure the player into exiting. You should rarely have a situation where during an extraction nothing interesting is going on. However, not all missions have unlimited reinforcements.

[eduardocecconi]

Originally posted by Engioc:

To me, it doesn't always make sense that there is an unlimited supply of reinforcements close by, we're talking about WW2 and a period where communications were still rather limited, especially over long distances, so calling up unlimited reinforcements makes no sense.

If I've successfully completed all my objectives, why is there a need to rush me to an exit point, I'm going to leave anyway since the mission is done and I have nothing left to do. The position of these exit points also makes no sense because they can be located right in the middle of the enemy camp not far from where the reinforcements are coming from. In a behind-enemy-lines situation, we would be either walking out, or at best being picked up by a friendly in a vehicle, but they're not going to drive into the middle of combat to get you.

Well said.

[Chance]

I refunded. Not going to deal with a d-day timer or any more mess that actually limits how much you can play the game. If you don't want players to play x number of missions before the end of the campaigns then create y number you can do and leave it at that. Putting a pressure limit so you are actively punished for playing more missions is just bad design.

You even have more dlc coming and Day 1 dlc that adds more missions that you actively can't play all of due to this design. That's just... Bleh

[Engioc]

I'll agree with lead dev in that I think it's a little disappointing that people are giving up so soon. None of my gripes with the game, at least for me, are deal breakers. Combat works just fine, and it is fun, I'm just someone that prefers to have multiple ways to complete a mission, combat, stealth, or a mix.

This game has a ton of potential so I'm not seeking any refund, think it's important to give developers time, and I'm still excited for the future of CF44.

Originally posted by lee:

Lead designer here.

Some missions DO have unlimited enemy reinforcements to add a soft limit to missions and pressure the player into exiting. You should rarely have a situation where during an extraction nothing interesting is going on. However, not all missions have unlimited reinforcements.

Hi Lee, quick question on the unlimited reinforcements... is it completely unlimited? My reason for asking is that I'm curious if this is something players could exploit.

Could I potentially, as long as I can keep my team's health and morale up, sit there and fight wave after wave of reinforcements to milk the system for a higher score/experience?

[lee]

Hi Engioc,

Before dealing with your question, I'd like to give a little context on the campaign. We specifically limited the length of the campaign because it fit the theme of countdown to D-Day, and we wanted to encourage replays.

Now, all missions are handcrafted - there are no procedurally-generated missions. You will not experience all mission content on first playthrough. Just as you won't experience all the characters on first playthrough. That's a design choice, and like most design choices not everyone will be onboard for it. But we hope that some folks will engage with this and replay to experience the breadth of the game.

Unlimited Reinforcements in Missions

Originally posted by Engioc:

Hi Lee, quick question on the unlimited reinforcements... is it completely unlimited? My reason for asking is that I'm curious if this is something players could exploit.

Could I potentially, as long as I can keep my team's health and morale up, sit there and fight wave after wave of reinforcements to milk the system for a higher score/experience?

Regarding unlimited reinforcements in those missions that have them, there shouldn't be anything to exploit. XP is linked to objectives, not kills, so hunkering down and turning waves of Nazis into pink mist will not give you any extra benefits.