Doom 3: Useless Edition (get the original version instead!)

[uzernaem]

For those of you who consider buying Doom 3, do not get BFG Edition! Get the original instead (and RoE expansion if you like). Things BFG Edition changed for worse:

- Compressed textures with heavy color banding. What looks OK on TV does not look good on a computer monitor. Original D3 has better looking textures. BFG edition looks like it's running at poor 16bit colour even if that is not the case.

- Muffled sounds. Original had more clear sound if playing with a good sound setup

- No muzzle flashes! This just ruins the game for me: in a dark room your gunfire does not light the surroundings up! In original D3 that was a huge part of game look.

- No original D3 mods support. No sikkmod for you, BFG Edition.

There are some improvements like a new flashlight mechanic but it is ruined by stupid looking flashlight model that looks like it's accidentally stuck in a marine armor LOL. Achievements are OK but hardly redeem all the shortcomings. Original Doom 3 supports widescreen just as good with a couple of console commands.

IMO this version should had not been released on PC. Original is much better.

[Proud Facebook Mom]

You forgot to mention the over-abundance of ammo, the brightened environments and the absence of certain sections from the original RoE. I practically strolled through this game on Veteran.

[Phade]

Besides mods, this version is graphically superior in every way. You thinking otherwise is just the fact that you're used to using mods to make it look better. sorry ,doesnt work that way for everyone.

[Zoopy]

No, it's not graphically superior in every way. Unless removing effects like muzzle flash and making everything blurry is 'superior'.

[🅱🅾🆁🅶]

How is bfg graphically superior when they removed some graphical effects in order to have it run smoother on consoles . And also making it really bright for some reason

[KillStealKing82]

I wouldnt say its supior but i do prefer the cleaner look this one seems to have over the original and looks stunning at 1440p with high AA settings ( for a game that came out in 2004 ). Plus the game seems to play better, constant 60fps smoothness rather than that annoying jitter the original had (like elder scrolls and fallout games unless modded)

My only gripe is the muzzle flashes, one thing i always loved about id games werre muzzle flashes from shots fired, something that valve failed to put in the half life games.

I think this release was more for the 3d glasses and oculus rift generation (well before ♥♥♥♥ hit the fan with beth and J carmack) hence removing those muzzle flashes. When i had my 3d setup the recommended settings in half game profiles were to disable shadows and muzzle type gfx options for best experiance.

[Zaxx]

As for the original vs. BFG graphics: the OP is wrong, BFG clearly has a better overall graphics quality though granted it could have gotten much more.

I mainly bought this version though becuase I'm sick of the original id Tech 4 engine's frame skipping when running it with vsync. I know that it can be fixed by altering the tickrate but that ♥♥♥♥♥ up the game's speed (yes, it will be one frame slower than it should be and you can feel it) and messes up the audio during cutscenes so nope, as far as I'm concerned the original is an outdated game that is incompatible with modern systems.

[🅱🅾🆁🅶]

Publicado originalmente por Zaxx:

As for the original vs. BFG graphics: the OP is wrong, BFG clearly has a better overall graphics quality though granted it could have gotten much more.

I mainly bought this version though becuase I'm sick of the original id Tech 4 engine's frame skipping when running it with vsync. I know that it can be fixed by altering the tickrate but that ♥♥♥♥♥ up the game's speed (yes, it will be one frame slower than it should be and you can feel it) and messes up the audio during cutscenes so nope, as far as I'm concerned the original is an outdated game that is incompatible with modern systems.

I don't think the issue you had with the game happens to everyone though because I've run the original version on modern systems (on Windows 8.1 even) and never had to deal with frame skipping with vsync on. I believe it could be something that can be fixed on your end. Vsync overall though is crap yes( but does its job of gettig rid of tearing good) since it introduces some input delay when enabled but I fix this by capping my frame rate one frame lower than my refresh rate and this just elominates the input lag , and that method could have possibly fixed any frame skip introduced by vsync Aswell . I also do not use in Game vsync but force it through nvidia control panel.

But yeah I've also had no issues with other games that use the same engine more heavily like Prey for example .

[Zaxx]

Publicado originalmente por Prometheus:

Publicado originalmente por Zaxx:

As for the original vs. BFG graphics: the OP is wrong, BFG clearly has a better overall graphics quality though granted it could have gotten much more.

I mainly bought this version though becuase I'm sick of the original id Tech 4 engine's frame skipping when running it with vsync. I know that it can be fixed by altering the tickrate but that ♥♥♥♥♥ up the game's speed (yes, it will be one frame slower than it should be and you can feel it) and messes up the audio during cutscenes so nope, as far as I'm concerned the original is an outdated game that is incompatible with modern systems.

I don't think the issue you had with the game happens to everyone though because I've run the original version on modern systems (on Windows 8.1 even) and never had to deal with frame skipping with vsync on. I believe it could be something that can be fixed on your end. Vsync overall though is crap yes( but does its job of gettig rid of tearing good) since it introduces some input delay when enabled but I fix this by capping my frame rate one frame lower than my refresh rate and this just elominates the input lag , and that method could have possibly fixed any frame skip introduced by vsync Aswell . I also do not use in Game vsync but force it through nvidia control panel.

But yeah I've also had no issues with other games that use the same engine more heavily like Prey for example .

The frame skipping happens to everyone if the game is played with a vsynced 60 fps (the only id Tech 4 game that is not doing this is Wolfenstein 2009 because the Raven devs were nice enough to fix it). This is due to the fact that Doom 3, Quake 4 and Prey all have terrible support for LCD screens / vsync because they were released right before the time LCDs became popular (on old CRT monitors tearing was never a problem). Sadly the skipping is caused by the engine itself because if you turn vsync on the engine syncs your fps to 60 by skipping 2 frames every second - Doom 3 is locked and runs at 62 fps with a matching tickrate, that's why you lose exactly 2 frames.

So sorry but you're wrong, the original Doom 3 (and Quake 4 and Prey) will never givie you the smooth 60 with vsync on. It's a shame because with 62 fps the tearing is just insane so I basically can't play the game without turning vsync on. For a more easily understandable explanation go here ("peasants" call it stuttering :D):
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1400617

The 62 fps limit of the original also brings up another problem when it comes to modern systems: if you have a 120 hz or 144 hz monitor you'll never be able to run the game at 120 or 144 fps (well you can but the game's speed will be super fast :D). The BFG Edition is not that great in that regard but at least it supports 120 fps so if you have a 120 hz monitor BFG is your one and only choice if you want to actually use it.

[🅱🅾🆁🅶]

Mm

Publicado originalmente por Zaxx:

Publicado originalmente por Prometheus:

I don't think the issue you had with the game happens to everyone though because I've run the original version on modern systems (on Windows 8.1 even) and never had to deal with frame skipping with vsync on. I believe it could be something that can be fixed on your end. Vsync overall though is crap yes( but does its job of gettig rid of tearing good) since it introduces some input delay when enabled but I fix this by capping my frame rate one frame lower than my refresh rate and this just elominates the input lag , and that method could have possibly fixed any frame skip introduced by vsync Aswell . I also do not use in Game vsync but force it through nvidia control panel.

But yeah I've also had no issues with other games that use the same engine more heavily like Prey for example .

The frame skipping happens to everyone if the game is played with a vsynced 60 fps (the only id Tech 4 game that is not doing this is Wolfenstein 2009 because the Raven devs were nice enough to fix it). This is due to the fact that Doom 3, Quake 4 and Prey all have terrible support for LCD screens / vsync because they were released right before the time LCDs became popular (on old CRT monitors tearing was never a problem). Sadly the skipping is caused by the engine itself because if you turn vsync on the engine syncs your fps to 60 by skipping 2 frames every second - Doom 3 is locked and runs at 62 fps with a matching tickrate, that's why you lose exactly 2 frames.

So sorry but you're wrong, the original Doom 3 (and Quake 4 and Prey) will never givie you the smooth 60 with vsync on. It's a shame because with 62 fps the tearing is just insane so I basically can't play the game without turning vsync on. For a more easily understandable explanation go here ("peasants" call it stuttering :D):
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1400617

The 62 fps limit of the original also brings up another problem when it comes to modern systems: if you have a 120 hz or 144 hz monitor you'll never be able to run the game at 120 or 144 fps (well you can but the game's speed will be super fast :D). The BFG Edition is not that great in that regard but at least it supports 120 fps so if you have a 120 hz monitor BFG is your one and only choice if you want to actually use it.

Hmm I'm at a lost here because either I'm not seeing the micro stutter effect of frame skipping or it's not there . Im trying to see it but my game just runs real smooth with vsync on and I am real anal about any type of hitching that it throws me off and I can't play the game but looking at floors and walls walking back and forth, playing for awhile I don't see any delay or hitches that come with frame skipping , it's just so smooth idk

But I'll try again later and update . Is the frame skipping constant or does it come and go depending on the location and scene you're looking at ?

[Zaxx]

Publicado originalmente por Prometheus:

Mm

Publicado originalmente por Zaxx:

The frame skipping happens to everyone if the game is played with a vsynced 60 fps (the only id Tech 4 game that is not doing this is Wolfenstein 2009 because the Raven devs were nice enough to fix it). This is due to the fact that Doom 3, Quake 4 and Prey all have terrible support for LCD screens / vsync because they were released right before the time LCDs became popular (on old CRT monitors tearing was never a problem). Sadly the skipping is caused by the engine itself because if you turn vsync on the engine syncs your fps to 60 by skipping 2 frames every second - Doom 3 is locked and runs at 62 fps with a matching tickrate, that's why you lose exactly 2 frames.

So sorry but you're wrong, the original Doom 3 (and Quake 4 and Prey) will never givie you the smooth 60 with vsync on. It's a shame because with 62 fps the tearing is just insane so I basically can't play the game without turning vsync on. For a more easily understandable explanation go here ("peasants" call it stuttering :D):
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1400617

The 62 fps limit of the original also brings up another problem when it comes to modern systems: if you have a 120 hz or 144 hz monitor you'll never be able to run the game at 120 or 144 fps (well you can but the game's speed will be super fast :D). The BFG Edition is not that great in that regard but at least it supports 120 fps so if you have a 120 hz monitor BFG is your one and only choice if you want to actually use it.

Hmm I'm at a lost here because either I'm not seeing the micro stutter effect of frame skipping or it's not there . Im trying to see it but my game just runs real smooth with vsync on and I am real anal about any type of hitching that it throws me off and I can't play the game but looking at floors and walls walking back and forth, playing for awhile I don't see any delay or hitches that come with frame skipping , it's just so smooth idk

But I'll try again later and update . Is the frame skipping constant or does it come and go depending on the location and scene you're looking at ?

Constant but hey, I don't have the Steam version of Doom 3, maybe they patched it out one day since 2010?

Edit: Nope, still in there as of 2013-2014:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/9050/discussions/0/864960987013937164

Guess you're just not noticing it then, hell, it's so common I can imagine people just got used to it and think that's how the character moves. :) A shame really, I wanna replay Prey and Quake 4 but this always puts me off.

[Zaxx]

Anyway as for what's on offer here I think BFG is a quite nice package for fans. On a sale it's a no brainer really simply because you get one extra episode for Doom 2 and the new levelpack for Doom 3. Both of those are quite good, the only thing to keep in mind is that sadly BFG is not the complete collection Doom deserves: you don't get Final Doom and the Master Levels for Doom 2 and on top of that slight alterations were made to the classic games (thankfully there is a guide here that shows you how to go get rid of most of them).

Of course Doom 3 was rebalanced too (you get the new flashlight, you move faster, have more varied ammo and a monster trap room was cut from the last level of Resurrection of Evil) but if you ask me all of those are improvements even when compared to modded Doom 3 (the flashlight is better implemented here for example). It's worth to note however that I'm not a hardcore fan of the original, I never even liked it that much because of the original flashlight and the few sections where they forced you to use a certain weapon because you only found ammo for that. This I like a lot better though of course BFG has its own quirks, mainly the fact that id went a bit too far with adding extra ammo to the game so ammo management is basically a non-issue. I find it weird that nobody has made an ammo mod yet.

[NPC_CO8ALT]

BFG is a great package for people who want both expansions and doom 1-2 in one shot instead of purchasing them all separate.

Does it have graphic problems? Maybe. I've never had a problem, but the fixes that were made (like actually having flashlights on guns like a REAL marine would) more than make up for that imho.

You COULD buy the standard edition, but you really would be mission out on content though. Say what you want, but I enjoyed Lost Mission and the bonus doom 2 levels. I'd be pissed if I didn't have them.

[MrMcSwifty]

Publicado originalmente por Zaxx:

As for the original vs. BFG graphics: the OP is wrong, BFG clearly has a better overall graphics quality though granted it could have gotten much more.

I mainly bought this version though becuase I'm sick of the original id Tech 4 engine's frame skipping when running it with vsync. I know that it can be fixed by altering the tickrate but that ♥♥♥♥♥ up the game's speed (yes, it will be one frame slower than it should be and you can feel it) and messes up the audio during cutscenes so nope, as far as I'm concerned the original is an outdated game that is incompatible with modern systems.

I can't decide if I want to agree or disagree with you... lol...

For one thing, you're 100% right about the 62fps tickrate in the original game. It does introduce a small hitch or microstutter every second or so, and I can see how that can be distracting for some people. Disabling the tickrate also does mess with the audio sync in some cutscenes too.

So you're not technically wrong about any of that, but I just personally never found it particularly problematic. I just run with Vsync on and the unlocked tickrate, and general gameplay is perfectly smooth and enjoyable for me, with a few character voice animations that are a bit out of sync.

On the other hand, I simply cannot fathom how anyone can look at the graphics in BFG compared to the original, and conclude that they are "superior in every way." I do not run modded Doom 3 (never liked sikkmod, tbh); just the regular, vanilla game on Ultra, and textures and lighting are far and away above what BFG has to offer.

I can understand some of this stuff is a matter of taste, and it's fine if people prefer, for example, the overbright lighting in BFG compared to the inky darkness of the original. But the fact of the matter is that a fair amount of the textures and lighting effects in this game are objectively inferior.

A perfect example... and one that pulled me out of the game the most... would be the skybox texture in Hell, with the floating islands. For some baffling reason this was downgraded into a blurry pixellated mess that looks like something straight out of 1996. Why is this? There's no way it was a concious artistic decision, and how much extra performance could they possibly eek out by doing this?

It looks terrible, and I just can't get past it. Not worth it for the extra FPS and worthless motion blur, in my humblest of opinions.

[Zoopy]

Well said McSwifty!

I don't begrudge anyone preferring BFG to the originals, but there is undoubtedly a significant graphics downgrade from the original to BFG. Now this fine, but the fact that Bethesda decided to pull the original from sale is not so fine. Now people have no choice but to buy the BFG.

Don't get me wrong- with everything the BFG includes it is excellent value for money, but Bethesda should have left the option to buy the originals for those of us who want it. My Doom 3 physical copy stopped working last year and the only option for me was to then buy the BFG edition, which is not the version of Doom 3 I prefer.

[uzernaem]

Publicado originalmente por Zoop:

Bethesda should have left the option to buy the originals for those of us who want it. My Doom 3 physical copy stopped working last year and the only option for me was to then buy the BFG edition, which is not the version of Doom 3 I prefer.

Lol, the original is still sold here! Check for yourself. I WAS pulled but returned after the community outcry.

Now I wish pre-update old engine Half-Life 2 was still here... Will never happen.