Anyone else tired of looter shooters and ARPGs being treated like endless cash flows in our modern era?

[Mike]

So I'm a pretty big fan of ARPGs and looter shooters in general so much so that I have tried/played most of them and I've had my eye on this game since its announcement but I can't be the only one who just wants a premium, non-F2P, non-P2W looter shooter that is a full package with a meaty campaign/story, decent endgame content, build/gameplay depth,....etc, can I?

Like even with the hate Outriders got on launch, I would rather more games like that, or the borderlands series (1-3) then this constant flow of soulless F2P cash shop slop. I would hold my hope for the next Borderlands game but given the devs are more worried about pushing their message, then listening to the fans that series has fallen as well.

The game looks ok, but man every time I see a new looter shooter my ears perk up and every time iots revealed to be F2P with the forced MTX cosmetic garbage, I just sigh.......and lose most interest I had in the game.

Sorry for the slight rant post, as I mean no disrespect to the devs, but I feel this sub genre has been treated very badly by companies that just want to milk cash from whales, and keep as many players addicted with their dopamine riddled game systems as possible.

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

No I'm not, I'm using empirical data that shows majority of people enjoyed BL2

I purchase 2 copies of BL2, and I did not enjoy it. This proves that number of sales does not equate to number of people who enjoyed the game. It also does not equate to the game being quality.

So all your saying its YOU don't like BL2, which is fine, but the world does not revolve around just you buddy. Your still the only one arguing for a games "quality" in an objective way, no one else is.

[D. Flame]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

I purchase 2 copies of BL2, and I did not enjoy it. This proves that number of sales does not equate to number of people who enjoyed the game. It also does not equate to the game being quality.

So all your saying its YOU don't like BL2, which is fine

If I prove even one person bought it and doesn't like it, then it proves that number of sales does not equal number of people who liked it.

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

So all your saying its YOU don't like BL2, which is fine

If I prove even one person bought it and doesn't like it, then it proves that number of sales does not equal number of people who liked it.

Who said that though? Your literally putting words in others mouths to "one-up" everyone you interact with.

Anyway I see no more reason to waste time interacting with you, so I will focus on others if they respond to my original post, or if someone else wants to waste time and tackle your nonsense lol.

[D. Flame]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

If I prove even one person bought it and doesn't like it, then it proves that number of sales does not equal number of people who liked it.

Who said that though? Your literally putting words in others mouths to "one-up" everyone you interact with.

You did:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

You are conflating "commercial success for the company selling a product," with, "high quality." They are not the same thing. McDonalds has sold a bunch or hamburgers, but that doesn't mean that they are high quality.

Hope this helps.

No I'm not, I'm using empirical data that shows majority of people enjoyed BL2

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Who said that though? Your literally putting words in others mouths to "one-up" everyone you interact with.

You did:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

No I'm not, I'm using empirical data that shows majority of people enjoyed BL2

This is the easiest "gotcha attempt" I have ever seen lol.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/49520/Borderlands_2/
(overwhelmingly positive with more then 200k reviews)

https://www.metacritic.com/game/borderlands-2/
(8.3 score out of 1.3k user reviews)

https://opencritic.com/game/9755/borderlands-2
(86% aggregate of critics reviews of the major gaming sites)

Regardless where you look for user opinions or "gaming critic" opinions BL2 is OBJECTIVELY viewed in a mostly positive light. Regardless of how you feel you are in the minority when it comes to disliking BL2, which is fine, just stop acting like your opinion has anything but your personal feelings of the game as "facts".

[D. Flame]

I see that whole claim of not interacting me didn't last long, lol

Anyway, I will be blocking you now.

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

I see that whole claim of not interacting me didn't last long, lol

Anyway, I will be blocking you now.

HAHAHAHAH are you serious..... this is golden......

You come in here act like you know better then others, get proven wrong time and time again (with receipts), and then when your backs to the corner you pull the "I'm blocking you card". Wow thats pretty sad.

I have disagreed with many people over the years on these forums whether its a friendly disagreement or arguing over stupid things and I have never blocked a person unless they go to my public profile to spam obcenities. Imo if you can't handle being wrong every once in a while and you have to block people for disagree with you, then you are weak willed and need to grow up.

Good riddance as no interaction with you has ever been pleasant or respectful Maybe you should have blocked me from the start so neither of us would have wasted the time

[I Should Be Sleeping]

Quit giving people more reasons to talk chit about anime avatar users.

[D. Flame]

Ursprungligen skrivet av I Should Be Sleeping:

Quit giving people more reasons to talk chit about anime avatar users.

You're the one with a manga avatar. Mine is from an actual game.

[Hollow-Enigma]

It wasn't about sales alone though, it was also about the other measurable statistics like the positive reviews and player retention. This combination illustrates that it was objectively well received.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

it goes for any genre, times have changed. either companies will charge extortionate prices for what will most likely be a unfinished product (with mtx) or they go F2p riddled with mtx. Take D4 for example it wasn't great, It has improved somewhat but for the money I spent I expected more. Now to recieve more I have to buy a dlc to actually make it feel complete. Not all f2p games feel shallow, box price or F2P if a games good a games good. You used outriders as an example, while fun at times it was a bit of a mess. enough for me to put it down and not return.

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AFC_HIGHBURY:

it goes for any genre, times have changed. either companies will charge extortionate prices for what will most likely be a unfinished product (with mtx) or they go F2p riddled with mtx. Take D4 for example it wasn't great, It has improved somewhat but for the money I spent I expected more. Now to recieve more I have to buy a dlc to actually make it feel complete. Not all f2p games feel shallow, box price or F2P if a games good a games good. You used outriders as an example, while fun at times it was a bit of a mess. enough for me to put it down and not return.

My point is that there has not really been looter shooters on the level of the series that literally made the genre.....Borderlands. No other looter shooter outside maybe outriders even tried to go the BL route of releasing a full meaty game, and monetizing it through quality DLCs/expansions. Destiny 1 and 2 were over hyped rushed messes which is ok now, Division 1-2 were also rushed messes, Anthem was doa, suicide squad was doa, Redfall tried to be like BL but was forced and doa, Godfall was rushed but ended up good, outriders was rushed but ended upo decent imo,...etc.

Its like the ONE game that started the genre no body wants to try to imitate and they keep pushing out these failing products. I guarantee you if these devs and publishers actually create a NON live service looter shooter (like BL) with a rich world, fun and interesting itemization (guns/gear), a meaty story campaign with at least a NG+ mode,...etc people will eat it up and it will garner a decent fanbase.

The problem is that they don't want that they want MONEY so until this F2P, live service business model fails we will never get a looter shooter to rival the BL series and the only one that tried (outriders) was rushed and by the time its was fixed it was too late for most people, that and Square threw the devs under the bus when they let go a lot of their western studios.

My point is that imo the genre peaked at BL2 and nothing that has released since has really captured what made people fall in love with the looter shooter genre The looter shooters we have now are barely even recognizable to how the genre started and everything is about MTX cosmetics (which should be earned in game) and pay to wing systems.

Its just sad to so a favorite genre of mine DEVOLVE before it even really had time to shine outside of the BL series.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Ursprungligen skrivet av AFC_HIGHBURY:

it goes for any genre, times have changed. either companies will charge extortionate prices for what will most likely be a unfinished product (with mtx) or they go F2p riddled with mtx. Take D4 for example it wasn't great, It has improved somewhat but for the money I spent I expected more. Now to recieve more I have to buy a dlc to actually make it feel complete. Not all f2p games feel shallow, box price or F2P if a games good a games good. You used outriders as an example, while fun at times it was a bit of a mess. enough for me to put it down and not return.

My point is that there has not really been looter shooters on the level of the series that literally made the genre.....Borderlands. No other looter shooter outside maybe outriders even tried to go the BL route of releasing a full meaty game, and monetizing it through quality DLCs/expansions. Destiny 1 and 2 were over hyped rushed messes which is ok now, Division 1-2 were also rushed messes, Anthem was doa, suicide squad was doa, Redfall tried to be like BL but was forced and doa, Godfall was rushed but ended up good, outriders was rushed but ended upo decent imo,...etc.

Its like the ONE game that started the genre no body wants to try to imitate and they keep pushing out these failing products. I guarantee you if these devs and publishers actually create a NON live service looter shooter (like BL) with a rich world, fun and interesting itemization (guns/gear), a meaty story campaign with at least a NG+ mode,...etc people will eat it up and it will garner a decent fanbase.

The problem is that they don't want that they want MONEY so until this F2P, live service business model fails we will never get a looter shooter to rival the BL series and the only one that tried (outriders) was rushed and by the time its was fixed it was too late for most people, that and Square threw the devs under the bus when they let go a lot of their western studios.

My point is that imo the genre peaked at BL2 and nothing that has released since has really captured what made people fall in love with the looter shooter genre The looter shooters we have now are barely even recognizable to how the genre started and everything is about MTX cosmetics (which should be earned in game) and pay to wing systems.

Its just sad to so a favorite genre of mine DEVOLVE before it even really had time to shine outside of the BL series.

Yeh I get what your saying, unfortunately don't think f2p/ live service will fail and it is sad how gaming has changed over the years. Only positive being gaming is more accessible now to wider audience.

[~Lazy_Eggs~]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Ursprungligen skrivet av D. Flame:

Just you.

Looter shooters require loot. A static game eventually runs out of loot, then the game is boring. Live service provides a constant flow of loot.

Holy crap you did not read anything did do you? Where did I EVER complain about loot in looter shooters???? Find me the exact quote where I said "loot in looter shooters is bad"........

I love loot lol, but I hate F2P, shallow, MTX riddled, "products", that are ONLY designed to keep players addicted with as little substance as possible.

bruv ... what i just read it from your rant is that you want an offline looter shooter like borderlands or outriders ... the guy answered your question perfectly lol.

if we aren't getting your message, then maybe it's you who is wording it wrong

or

you have no idea what you are talking about and just want to be a contrarian.

[Mike]

Ursprungligen skrivet av ~Lazy_Eggs~:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mike:

Holy crap you did not read anything did do you? Where did I EVER complain about loot in looter shooters???? Find me the exact quote where I said "loot in looter shooters is bad"........

I love loot lol, but I hate F2P, shallow, MTX riddled, "products", that are ONLY designed to keep players addicted with as little substance as possible.

bruv ... what i just read it from your rant is that you want an offline looter shooter like borderlands or outriders ... the guy answered your question perfectly lol.

if we aren't getting your message, then maybe it's you who is wording it wrong

or

you have no idea what you are talking about and just want to be a contrarian.

They did not answer ANY question "perfectly" and anyone who actually knows how to read and understand CONTEXT will know this.

I never once complained about loot in looter shooters and the entire focus was mostly on the monetization of the games in this genre and why its been the laughing stock of the industry for a few years.

I see another person who does not know how to read or comprehend a simple post is giving their pointless 2 cents, without even knowing what they are talking about.

Sheesh..... only like 2-3 people made honest discussion about the topic and you 2 are not even in the same realm of the discussion I wanted to have.

I'm not looking for people to agree with me, I'm looking for honest discussion about the topic but when people can't even spend a few seconds to read and comprehend the CONTEXT of my post, we just get people talking about completely different subjects then the matter at hand.

Ahh steam forums are such a joy to interact with