This Is Why The RNG Sucks

[Kayso]

It's not because the drop % is low.
It's not because you have to run the same mission 50x.

I come from a long line of MMO's. I fully expect in FFXIV, WOW, you name it to have to grind a savage tier boss for that sweet mount or loot.

I know what it's like to build relic weapons....

HOWEVER

What you don't realize until late game is the sheer layers of RNG.

There's essentially 3 viable ways to get amorph mats that is outpost and 2 mission types. Duoing outpost would be great but terribly hard to organize. Even if you max out your Sharen it can be annoying just to play RNG for the drop.

That leaves missions.

80 mod slot Ajax over 70,000 defense / 400,000 DPS

Okay so you run a mission for 1 to 2 amorph mats per go. Over and over. THEN you have to redundantly beat a hard mode colossi just to RNG it.

In most games you may have to beat a "colossi" or raid boss 30X to get the loot, but this game layers the RNG. You RNG the resources then you RNG opening them then you RNG the small materials needed then you wait hours for it to be researched.

Layer upon layer.

I RNG my gear off for 3 out of 4 enduring legacy mats. I had to beat the Dead Bride hard mode tons of times. Now the blueprint refuses to drop.

OH and Nexon doesn't even sell 90% of the late game stuff you aim for so it's not just push you in the cash shop lol.

EDIT: I have spent $150 on the game to support it. I enjoy it and want it to succeed but having to repeat colossi fights past mastery 15 to open amorph is just ridiculous.

[Ghost | Severage]

Also, I don't know how far you're in the game, but for example the hard mode bosses also drop other really good things besides opening the amorph mats. 30x the same hard mode boss could potentially mean that you get up to 60 transcended mods too, which you can reroll to get something completely new and/or something you really need. Each hard mode boss run has a chance to drop 2 transcended mods.
So honestly I'd rather open them by defeating the bosses than opening them in the city and getting a lot less rewards in the end.

[Boink]

That is why you plan and try to farm 2 out of 5 items in the Amorph and anything that drops from the Collosi or Dungeon you are killing.

Blueprints - Energy Activators - Crystaline

The rare ones are a bonus. At least that is how I play the game. If you are going for 3-6% then it will just crush your soul.

[Monstreek]

Originally posted by Shadow604:

ya idk how people can honestly defend this level of grind, devs arnt gonna give you a cookie get a grip on reality , this grind is a boring slog . if i didnt have friends to group up with and make it alil bit fun i woulda unistalled day 2 and even then i can only play like 1hr a day max b4 i get bored
i hope the devs fix these issues fast cuz i kinda would like to put more hours into this game

I hope they won't "fix" the drop rates, because there will be no reason to play anymore.

[Hez]

Originally posted by Monstreek:

Originally posted by Shadow604:

ya idk how people can honestly defend this level of grind, devs arnt gonna give you a cookie get a grip on reality , this grind is a boring slog . if i didnt have friends to group up with and make it alil bit fun i woulda unistalled day 2 and even then i can only play like 1hr a day max b4 i get bored
i hope the devs fix these issues fast cuz i kinda would like to put more hours into this game

I hope they won't "fix" the drop rates, because there will be no reason to play anymore.

+1 I'm tired of whining casuals. They don't even realize that there's nothing in this game but farming. And if you don't like it, then it's not your type of game

[D. Flame]

The drop chances are accurate, but what people don't realize is that if you have a 20% chance at the material and the material has a 3% chance of being the item you want, then you really only have a 0.6% chance of actually getting the item you want. That's about 3 times out of every 500 runs, and that is only when averaged across hundreds of thousands of runs.

[NovaNexus]

Flyff, cabal, BDO, M.U, Lineage 2, Vindictus, Yulgang 2, Manibogi, Metin 2, Fiesta online, Dragon nest, Aura kingdom, age of wushu, Blade and soul, 4 story, 9 dragons, AQW, Aion, Ragnarok, Rohan, Perfect world, Eve echoes, C9, on and on. Rng Upon RNG, Doing rotation for hours and still get nothing, Defeating Mobs after mobs and continue running dungeon after dungeon, on and on and on. i don't have problem But the only thing i would agree is the outpost one, they should lower the timer cool down and the increase a little bit more on drop chance Since beating harder boss should be rewarding though or allow opening 2 amorph, Because opening an amorph on hard mode kinda waste your time since bosses Have huge HP pool than before, spending a 10 minutes on a boss to open 1 amorph was MEH because at the same time your spending almost 20 minutes running dungeon to get 1 or 2 amorph on hard mode total of almost more than 1 hour if you don't get it and waste all of it your going to grind another hours, Also on wave mode thing should remove gold, they should have a special mission for it instead for sole focus on farming golds only. And here i am to remind myself "The grind most be continued."

[Ghost | Severage]

Originally posted by NovaNexus:

Flyff, cabal, BDO, M.U, Lineage 2, Vindictus, Yulgang 2, Manibogi, Metin 2, Fiesta online, Dragon nest, Aura kingdom, age of wushu, Blade and soul, 4 story, 9 dragons, AQW, Aion, Ragnarok, Rohan, Perfect world, Eve echoes, C9, on and on. Rng Upon RNG, Doing rotation for hours and still get nothing, Defeating Mobs after mobs and continue running dungeon after dungeon, on and on and on. i don't have problem But the only thing i would agree is the outpost one, they should lower the timer cool down and the increase a little bit more on drop chance Since beating harder boss should be rewarding though or allow opening 2 amorph, Because opening an amorph on hard mode kinda waste your time since bosses Have huge HP pool than before, spending a 10 minutes on a boss to open 1 amorph was MEH because at the same time your spending almost 20 minutes running dungeon to get 1 or 2 amorph on hard mode total of almost more than 1 hour if you don't get it and waste all of it your going to grind another hours, Also on wave mode thing should remove gold, they should have a special mission for it instead for sole focus on farming golds only instead.

Have you tried soloing the hard mode bosses ? Because for me, they only take around 1, maybe 2 minutes at max and even the hard mode dungeons won't take 20 minutes for me.
Also the wave mode, aka special ops missions aren't even that good for farming gold. You can literally get the same amount of gold you'd get from one of those missions in less than 10 minutes just by doing some open world missions.
I see absolutely no purpose in these special ops missions. You get more xp/minute while doing the monoliths or other hard mode open world missions, you get more gold/kuiper at the same missions and you can farm amorph mats that drop the same things from different missions at a either 100% or 25% dropchance, with the possibility to get 2. And everything of it in a lot less time.

[Szymas]

Originally posted by warbucks:

OH I want to add....

You are supposed to do this 4X to max out an ultimate weapon that arguably is barely better than Tamer lol. Horrible.

+1

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by NovaNexus:

Flyff, cabal, BDO, M.U, Lineage 2, Vindictus, Yulgang 2, Manibogi, Metin 2, Fiesta online, Dragon nest, Aura kingdom, age of wushu, Blade and soul, 4 story, 9 dragons, AQW, Aion, Ragnarok, Rohan, Perfect world, Eve echoes, C9, on and on. Rng Upon RNG, Doing rotation for hours and still get nothing, Defeating Mobs after mobs and continue running dungeon after dungeon, on and on and on. i don't have problem But the only thing i would agree is the outpost one, they should lower the timer cool down and the increase a little bit more on drop chance Since beating harder boss should be rewarding though or allow opening 2 amorph, Because opening an amorph on hard mode kinda waste your time since bosses Have huge HP pool than before, spending a 10 minutes on a boss to open 1 amorph was MEH because at the same time your spending almost 20 minutes running dungeon to get 1 or 2 amorph on hard mode total of almost more than 1 hour if you don't get it and waste all of it your going to grind another hours, Also on wave mode thing should remove gold, they should have a special mission for it instead for sole focus on farming golds only instead.

There is a difference between having challenging endgame content and being walled mid progression. Most people don't mind grind endgames, but they don't want to keep getting halted on their progress to said end with grinds.

[Kayso]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

The drop chances are accurate, but what people don't realize is that if you have a 20% chance at the material and the material has a 3% chance of being the item you want, then you really only have a 0.6% chance of actually getting the item you want. That's about 3 times out of every 500 runs, and that is only when averaged across hundreds of thousands of runs.

E X A C T L Y

I really don't think Nexon is lying. Especially for all this stuff you cannot even buy. However, if you have an item with a 10% drop chance that didnt factor in the 30% RNG before that RNG. When the RNG is layer the chance falls more.

It's like buying a lotto ticket to get a win but its not really a win unless you use said ticket to roll on another ticket combining them.

Gross.

[Hosenbund]

you are missing that the legendary weapons have unique traits on them, thundercage explosion makes it insane for trash mob clearing as a firearm

thunder cage is just the best allrounder weapon in the game and every other build has a better weapon to use than the tamer

Tamer may be alright to start out with in normal mode, but it is not good at all to invest into.
another big downside of the tamer are its awful crit stats.
There are not enough damage mods in the game yet to create powerful builds without it, you will always end up with mods which enhance the crits
The DPS stat also does not take legendary mods into account which do some weird things. same for weak point damage and natural weak point damage multiplier on the weapon.
the dps stat in this game is simply more or less a lie

I also dont understand why you guys farm outposts in normal mode to chase 3% drop items.

you can run hard mode dungeons and get those drops with way higher drop rates from collossus fights.
That reduces the layers of RNG tremendously.

all it takes to clear the first dungeon bosses in hard mode fast is a bunny and an upgraded thunder cage, sure it is connected to some struggle and sweating because you dont have a good build going yet, but that is how it is
and if you really cant beat a colossus boss yet, then you can also do hard mode outposts for way higher drop rates too.. up to 20% for ultimate parts

sure it is still a grind but you guys are making your life way more miserable than it needs to be yourself

paying money does not solve this issue btw so it is not because they are greedy, if you pay money for an ultimate descendant you wont be stronger at all. i mean you are, you will be 2 crystallization catalysts stronger in the ultimate form, because they start with 4 instead of 2, but that is it, and those are one of the things you can easily farm in normal too. 15% chance instead of 20%.
sure there are ultimate exclusive mods, but most of them are a bait or overhyped.
ultimate bunny for example is still a mid tier boss killer even with the ultimate exclusive bossing mod.

[Katzh]

they should look at how warframe handle relics.
can upgrade to radiant
can share relic drops with other player
different ways to get the relics..

[Paschendale]

Originally posted by Katzh:

they should look at how warframe handle relics.
can upgrade to radiant
can share relic drops with other player
different ways to get the relics..

Void keys were better

[Kayso]

Originally posted by Hosenbund:

you are missing that the legendary weapons have unique traits on them, thundercage explosion makes it insane for trash mob clearing as a firearm

thunder cage is just the best allrounder weapon in the game and every other build has a better weapon to use than the tamer

Tamer may be alright to start out with in normal mode, but it is not good at all to invest into.
another big downside of the tamer are its awful crit stats.
There are not enough damage mods in the game yet to create powerful builds without it, you will always end up with mods which enhance the crits
The DPS stat also does not take legendary mods into account which do some weird things. same for weak point damage and natural weak point damage multiplier on the weapon.
the dps stat in this game is simply more or less a lie

I also dont understand why you guys farm outposts in normal mode to chase 3% drop items.

you can run hard mode dungeons and get those drops with way higher drop rates from collossus fights.
That reduces the layers of RNG tremendously.

all it takes to clear the first dungeon bosses in hard mode fast is a bunny and an upgraded thunder cage, sure it is connected to some struggle and sweating because you dont have a good build going yet, but that is how it is
and if you really cant beat a colossus boss yet, then you can also do hard mode outposts for way higher drop rates too.. up to 20% for ultimate parts

sure it is still a grind but you guys are making your life way more miserable than it needs to be yourself

paying money does not solve this issue btw so it is not because they are greedy, if you pay money for an ultimate descendant you wont be stronger at all. i mean you are, you will be 2 crystallization catalysts stronger in the ultimate form, because they start with 4 instead of 2, but that is it, and those are one of the things you can easily farm in normal too. 15% chance instead of 20%.
sure there are ultimate exclusive mods, but most of them are a bait or overhyped.
ultimate bunny for example is still a mid tier boss killer even with the ultimate exclusive bossing mod.

I don't do outpost.

Farming hard mode and opening it all in hard mode Colossi fights that I do solo so I don't have to carry trash damage.

I gave up RNGing outpost with Sharen long ago. It's rough.

Took me 50 runs worth of Amorph mats and entering Collosi Executioner those 50x for just the blueprint on the enduring legacy gun. Not to mention all the Dead Bride solo fights on hard mode for the others.

I already spent 2 days previously getting the other 3 items.

So I got it finally. The gun feels terrible even after weapon transmission. I know, I will need to do this monster grind 4 more times to get the full "real gun" then socket it out and put that 20 mod slot boost component on it.

Maybe after 70 hours+ of just grinding for materials alone then spending money on boost and time for socketing I will have a gun a bit better than Tamer.

If you play a *healthy* amount at 3 hours a day it would take weeks.

If you play almost like a second job like I do sometimes it still is a hell of a grind. The gun should be OP. It's not that OP. The accuracy is just laughable with the debuff.

Games new, maybe they will buff ultimate's.

Bunny may be good, I played it the first 2 days after release but for my playstyle I seriously dislike bunny. Ulti Ajax main enjoying sniping, surviving, and shooting instead of having to constantly run around not shooting in a shooter.

I agree, they're not rigging anything. Layers of RNG just isn't that fun. Well, fun enough to scratch your lotto ticket for 1 hour a day and oh well lol.

[FakeChiBlast]

Originally posted by Lammeth:

I agree... The farming in this game is horrible and frustrating. And the worst of all: not fun. If it was at least fun, it would be bearable.

yeap this is it. If the grind was fun like WF or so many other games I'd do it, but this game feels like work. 60 hrs in and I'm done now.