Bad Balance - Ultimate Weapons

[Tnanever]

Catalysts and Energy Activators cost the same for every weapon - all the weapons should be balanced better, but especially the ultimate weapons. Thunder Cage is just too powerful - especially for a general ammo weapon - it's either the best weapon or very good for almost every situation.

If you don't want to weaken Thunder Cage (although you should), then make other ultimate weapons just as worthwhile to upgrade.

I've upgraded each of the following to level 4 maximum unique ability, and wasted several energy activators and catalysts:

Clairvoyance
Greg's Reversed Fate
Sigvore's Proof
Smithereens
Last Dagger
Nazeistra's Devotion

All the above are pretty bad compared to Thunder Cage, except for possibly in very niche situations. With Thunder Cage, I can run around and spray casually and wipe out everything without worrying about things like ammo, precision shots, or distance - I just simply point and spray and I win. It's bad design. Give us a reason to switch while playing, and make it worthwhile to invest in other weapons. It's insulting how bad most other weapons are.

[Kashra Fall]

So you compared a beam rifle, to an SMG? A tactical to an SMG? A launcher to an SMG etc?

The thunder cage is good because it hits quickly/reloads quickly, has high crit value. Is it the best general round? No, I'd say that title belongs to the enduring legacy now. Extra damage to burning enemies, lower fire resistance, excellent accuracy and 171 round magazine (With the mod.) Was consistently hitting the boss for 533k, which the most I've ever done with my modded out TC was 431k (And reloading every 30 bullets.) So you lose DPS, where as enduring+sharp precision+expanded mag= power house lol.

The greg's got buffed in the valby patch and is apparently quite good now. I see it a fair number of times in obstructer fights in the hands of enzo.

The devotion lowers defense by 30%, that alone is worth the price of admission.

The last dagger is a pistol, we don't talk about pistols in their current state.

Smithereens is a shotgun, we don't talk about them in their current state.

Launchers are niche, but good in the hands of enzo/gley. Clairvoyance is apparently really good for viessa (Though I cannot confirm that.)

The afterglow is amazing, piercing light is awesome, secret garden is great, the list goes on. But only pistols, shotguns and beam rifles need love imo.

[iKalabalik]

Thunder cage is the best for mobbing due to its aoe proc.

Best versus bosses? Sure its top 3 but not the best currently.

[Devio]

Thunder only good for dense mob control and thats it. Bad for enything else. You dont have benefit for single target or boss or colossal. If you call a weapon OP because killing fast the groupmobs then you dont really understand the game. :)

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

So you compared a beam rifle, to an SMG? A tactical to an SMG? A launcher to an SMG etc?

The thunder cage is good because it hits quickly/reloads quickly, has high crit value. Is it the best general round? No, I'd say that title belongs to the enduring legacy now. Extra damage to burning enemies, lower fire resistance, excellent accuracy and 171 round magazine (With the mod.) Was consistently hitting the boss for 533k, which the most I've ever done with my modded out TC was 431k (And reloading every 30 bullets.) So you lose DPS, where as enduring+sharp precision+expanded mag= power house lol.

The greg's got buffed in the valby patch and is apparently quite good now. I see it a fair number of times in obstructer fights in the hands of enzo.

The devotion lowers defense by 30%, that alone is worth the price of admission.

The last dagger is a pistol, we don't talk about pistols in their current state.

Smithereens is a shotgun, we don't talk about them in their current state.

Launchers are niche, but good in the hands of enzo/gley. Clairvoyance is apparently really good for viessa (Though I cannot confirm that.)

The afterglow is amazing, piercing light is awesome, secret garden is great, the list goes on. But only pistols, shotguns and beam rifles need love imo.

Why are you taking things out of context? Do you like lying every time you post, or what?

I compared several things to Thunder Cage - including another general ammo weapon. Why are you strangely trying to make it about beam vs SMG, for example? That's not even the point. The point is that all weapons cost the same to upgrade, so they should all be on even ground in general.

After you complained about my comparisons, you then went on and compared a machine gun to an SMG!! HAHAHA. What????? Are you serious?? Even if Enduring Legacy can be only somewhat better for raw DPS against heavy targets, it's clunky, slows you down, and doesn't have free AOE kills - that has some semblance of balance.

On top of that, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you seem to have forgotten parts of my post as soon as you read them. I pointed out I already have a maxed out Greg's Reversed Fate - and no, it's still not nearly as good as Thunder Cage even after the patch. The weapon damage is low, the bombardment almost always misses moving targets, and the burn damage is low. Thunder Cage constantly offers instant AOE kills and a high damage from just the regular attack.

I also have a maxed out Nazeistra's Devotion (which you also forgot from my post so easily) - and no, it's trash compared to Thunder Cage. The -30% defense doesn't do as much as you think. Have you even tried it??? It sounds like you haven't.

Shotguns and Pistols in general do need a power boost, but that's also not the point of my post. Clearly the devs created these Ultimate Weapons and didn't balance them properly, regardless of weapon class.

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by Devio:

Thunder only good for dense mob control and thats it. Bad for enything else. You dont have benefit for single target or boss or colossal. If you call a weapon OP because killing fast the groupmobs then you dont really understand the game. :)

Nah, it's you who don't really understand the game. One weapon out of so many shouldn't be so much better in so many situations. Good thing you're not a game designer - you'd be out of a job really fast.

[Delphinus]

No gonna lie most ultimate suck and there gimmick sucks even more o.o

[SolusiRadikal]

General ammo get like up to 200% critical damage from module alone and you still doesn't get any idea on why everyone use LMG/AR/Thunder Cage?

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Tnanever:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

So you compared a beam rifle, to an SMG? A tactical to an SMG? A launcher to an SMG etc?

The thunder cage is good because it hits quickly/reloads quickly, has high crit value. Is it the best general round? No, I'd say that title belongs to the enduring legacy now. Extra damage to burning enemies, lower fire resistance, excellent accuracy and 171 round magazine (With the mod.) Was consistently hitting the boss for 533k, which the most I've ever done with my modded out TC was 431k (And reloading every 30 bullets.) So you lose DPS, where as enduring+sharp precision+expanded mag= power house lol.

The greg's got buffed in the valby patch and is apparently quite good now. I see it a fair number of times in obstructer fights in the hands of enzo.

The devotion lowers defense by 30%, that alone is worth the price of admission.

The last dagger is a pistol, we don't talk about pistols in their current state.

Smithereens is a shotgun, we don't talk about them in their current state.

Launchers are niche, but good in the hands of enzo/gley. Clairvoyance is apparently really good for viessa (Though I cannot confirm that.)

The afterglow is amazing, piercing light is awesome, secret garden is great, the list goes on. But only pistols, shotguns and beam rifles need love imo.

Why are you taking things out of context? Do you like lying every time you post, or what?

I compared several things to Thunder Cage - including another general ammo weapon. Why are you strangely trying to make it about beam vs SMG, for example? That's not even the point. The point is that all weapons cost the same to upgrade, so they should all be on even ground in general.

After you complained about my comparisons, you then went on and compared a machine gun to an SMG!! HAHAHA. What????? Are you serious?? Even if Enduring Legacy can be only somewhat better for raw DPS against heavy targets, it's clunky, slows you down, and doesn't have free AOE kills - that has some semblance of balance.

On top of that, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you seem to have forgotten parts of my post as soon as you read them. I pointed out I already have a maxed out Greg's Reversed Fate - and no, it's still not nearly as good as Thunder Cage even after the patch. The weapon damage is low, the bombardment almost always misses moving targets, and the burn damage is low. Thunder Cage constantly offers instant AOE kills and a high damage from just the regular attack.

I also have a maxed out Nazeistra's Devotion (which you also forgot from my post so easily) - and no, it's trash compared to Thunder Cage. The -30% defense doesn't do as much as you think. Have you even tried it??? It sounds like you haven't.

Shotguns and Pistols in general do need a power boost, but that's also not the point of my post. Clearly the devs created these Ultimate Weapons and didn't balance them properly, regardless of weapon class.

Compared a machinegun to an SMG because they fall into the line of "Machine gun." aka general rounds, you know, daka daka?

Also, yes, I've tried the devotion and the 30% DOES matter, it doesn't if your damage is already low however.

The greg's area explosion missing moving targets... Stationary incoming missles, moving targets... This doesn't need explaining, right?

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by iKalabalik:

Thunder cage is the best for mobbing due to its aoe proc.

Best versus bosses? Sure its top 3 but not the best currently.

That's the point you just don't seem to get. Correct, it is the best for mobbing in pretty much every situation - what room does that leave for other weapons? And at the same time, Thunder Cage is still a strong choice for bosses in most situations.

What's the point of all these other weapons then? For players to waste catalysts and energy activators?

Try to think before you post next time.

[Andrez2]

This is the bare minimum compared to the game's poor optimization.
1. Game using 100% CPU when loading shaders
2. RAM usage of 15GB
3. Global illumination crashing when setting the game to ''medium'', forcing the game to use low.
4. Crashing when opening the battle pass
5. Sometimes the bug of slow loading from one map to another even when using an SSD.
and many other errors...

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Tnanever:

Why are you taking things out of context? Do you like lying every time you post, or what?

I compared several things to Thunder Cage - including another general ammo weapon. Why are you strangely trying to make it about beam vs SMG, for example? That's not even the point. The point is that all weapons cost the same to upgrade, so they should all be on even ground in general.

After you complained about my comparisons, you then went on and compared a machine gun to an SMG!! HAHAHA. What????? Are you serious?? Even if Enduring Legacy can be only somewhat better for raw DPS against heavy targets, it's clunky, slows you down, and doesn't have free AOE kills - that has some semblance of balance.

On top of that, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you seem to have forgotten parts of my post as soon as you read them. I pointed out I already have a maxed out Greg's Reversed Fate - and no, it's still not nearly as good as Thunder Cage even after the patch. The weapon damage is low, the bombardment almost always misses moving targets, and the burn damage is low. Thunder Cage constantly offers instant AOE kills and a high damage from just the regular attack.

I also have a maxed out Nazeistra's Devotion (which you also forgot from my post so easily) - and no, it's trash compared to Thunder Cage. The -30% defense doesn't do as much as you think. Have you even tried it??? It sounds like you haven't.

Shotguns and Pistols in general do need a power boost, but that's also not the point of my post. Clearly the devs created these Ultimate Weapons and didn't balance them properly, regardless of weapon class.

Compared a machinegun to an SMG because they fall into the line of "Machine gun." aka general rounds, you know, daka daka?

Also, yes, I've tried the devotion and the 30% DOES matter, it doesn't if your damage is already low however.

The greg's area explosion missing moving targets... Stationary incoming missles, moving targets... This doesn't need explaining, right?

Are you really that dim or are you just making contrived posts now? It's hard to tell.

-I compared several guns to the SMG - and again, weapon class isn't even the point, so I'm not going to waste more time trying to explain this to you.

-Nope, the 30% armor debuff doesn't matter compared to the utility. Maybe in your crazed mind you think it means 30% more damage - but it doesn't. Try it yourself before continuing to sound ignorant.

-Do you not understand that the fact that Greg's Reversed Fate is weak because the bombardment misses moving targets? Do you think I was somehow not understanding that a delay in the bombardment means it hits moving targets less often? You seem to miss every important point in my posts.

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

General ammo get like up to 200% critical damage from module alone and you still doesn't get any idea on why everyone use LMG/AR/Thunder Cage?

Are you having trouble understanding that's one of the balance issues that is part of my complaint?

[RiseM]

Originally posted by Tnanever:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

So you compared a beam rifle, to an SMG? A tactical to an SMG? A launcher to an SMG etc?

The thunder cage is good because it hits quickly/reloads quickly, has high crit value. Is it the best general round? No, I'd say that title belongs to the enduring legacy now. Extra damage to burning enemies, lower fire resistance, excellent accuracy and 171 round magazine (With the mod.) Was consistently hitting the boss for 533k, which the most I've ever done with my modded out TC was 431k (And reloading every 30 bullets.) So you lose DPS, where as enduring+sharp precision+expanded mag= power house lol.

The greg's got buffed in the valby patch and is apparently quite good now. I see it a fair number of times in obstructer fights in the hands of enzo.

The devotion lowers defense by 30%, that alone is worth the price of admission.

The last dagger is a pistol, we don't talk about pistols in their current state.

Smithereens is a shotgun, we don't talk about them in their current state.

Launchers are niche, but good in the hands of enzo/gley. Clairvoyance is apparently really good for viessa (Though I cannot confirm that.)

The afterglow is amazing, piercing light is awesome, secret garden is great, the list goes on. But only pistols, shotguns and beam rifles need love imo.

Why are you taking things out of context? Do you like lying every time you post, or what?

I compared several things to Thunder Cage - including another general ammo weapon. Why are you strangely trying to make it about beam vs SMG, for example? That's not even the point. The point is that all weapons cost the same to upgrade, so they should all be on even ground in general.

After you complained about my comparisons, you then went on and compared a machine gun to an SMG!! HAHAHA. What????? Are you serious?? Even if Enduring Legacy can be only somewhat better for raw DPS against heavy targets, it's clunky, slows you down, and doesn't have free AOE kills - that has some semblance of balance.

On top of that, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you seem to have forgotten parts of my post as soon as you read them. I pointed out I already have a maxed out Greg's Reversed Fate - and no, it's still not nearly as good as Thunder Cage even after the patch. The weapon damage is low, the bombardment almost always misses moving targets, and the burn damage is low. Thunder Cage constantly offers instant AOE kills and a high damage from just the regular attack.

I also have a maxed out Nazeistra's Devotion (which you also forgot from my post so easily) - and no, it's trash compared to Thunder Cage. The -30% defense doesn't do as much as you think. Have you even tried it??? It sounds like you haven't.

Shotguns and Pistols in general do need a power boost, but that's also not the point of my post. Clearly the devs created these Ultimate Weapons and didn't balance them properly, regardless of weapon class.

Just try Nazera on heavy targets on hard mode vs thunder cage. Yes, making crit shots requires skill, but Nazera kills armored target faster. If you prefer spray and pray - it’s your tactics. Great. I agree to the other guy - pistols and shotguns are terrible now. I believe shotguns must be in their own category with their own ammo. Scout rifles are good also for several situations.

All you say is that you have a hammer and you can nail a screw with it. Yes, you can, but it’s not what it was made for.

[Grimzy]

Each weapon has its use and they are all pretty much on-par when it comes to damage and definetely worth upgrading.
Devotions debuff is amazing like others pointed out and enduring legacy is heaps better than thundercage when it comes to certain content, but thindercage is still better when it comes to mobbing and large mob groups.

Each weapon has its use, you seem to be very adamant on dismissing that fact and stubbornly cling to the idea that thundercage is some godlike weapon and others pale in comparison, which is entirely not true.

You seem to not understand and know how to make each of the weapons you lsited shine, and believe me they do shine in the right hands.

Like others pointed out, only handguns, shotguns and launchers need some love as those are the only ones that cant keep up.

[Tnanever]

Originally posted by RiseM:

Originally posted by Tnanever:

Why are you taking things out of context? Do you like lying every time you post, or what?

I compared several things to Thunder Cage - including another general ammo weapon. Why are you strangely trying to make it about beam vs SMG, for example? That's not even the point. The point is that all weapons cost the same to upgrade, so they should all be on even ground in general.

After you complained about my comparisons, you then went on and compared a machine gun to an SMG!! HAHAHA. What????? Are you serious?? Even if Enduring Legacy can be only somewhat better for raw DPS against heavy targets, it's clunky, slows you down, and doesn't have free AOE kills - that has some semblance of balance.

On top of that, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you seem to have forgotten parts of my post as soon as you read them. I pointed out I already have a maxed out Greg's Reversed Fate - and no, it's still not nearly as good as Thunder Cage even after the patch. The weapon damage is low, the bombardment almost always misses moving targets, and the burn damage is low. Thunder Cage constantly offers instant AOE kills and a high damage from just the regular attack.

I also have a maxed out Nazeistra's Devotion (which you also forgot from my post so easily) - and no, it's trash compared to Thunder Cage. The -30% defense doesn't do as much as you think. Have you even tried it??? It sounds like you haven't.

Shotguns and Pistols in general do need a power boost, but that's also not the point of my post. Clearly the devs created these Ultimate Weapons and didn't balance them properly, regardless of weapon class.

Just try Nazera on heavy targets on hard mode vs thunder cage. Yes, making crit shots requires skill, but Nazera kills armored target faster. If you prefer spray and pray - it’s your tactics. Great. I agree to the other guy - pistols and shotguns are terrible now. I believe shotguns must be in their own category with their own ammo. Scout rifles are good also for several situations.

All you say is that you have a hammer and you can nail a screw with it. Yes, you can, but it’s not what it was made for.

You have to be lying. There's no way you've tried this. Nazeistra's Devotion was the first weapon I got to max legendary effect, with energy activator, and several catalysts. It's overall much worse than Thunder Cage even when fully maxed. Sometimes it's better for hard targets, IF you can consistently hit weak spots, which is often not practical.

Add the fact that Thunder Cage has easier ammo sustainability and mass AOE killing, it's usually not even worth the time to switch weapons - Thunder Cage can often kill hard targets before you're even done switching and aiming for a weak point.

Just give up. It's clear you don't have a clue.