Ajax Nerf

[thegamingplumber]

Um...Nexon...what did you do to Ajax??? I went from 30k+ HP down to 16kHP. Cmon

[Grimzy]

Originally posted by thegamingplumber:

Um...Nexon...what did you do to Ajax??? I went from 30k+ HP down to 16kHP. Cmon

Nothing was nerfed. There were 2 bugs related to him that were fixed so that might be why.

[Godot]

Originally posted by Grimzy:

Originally posted by thegamingplumber:

Um...Nexon...what did you do to Ajax??? I went from 30k+ HP down to 16kHP. Cmon

Nothing was nerfed. There were 2 bugs related to him that were fixed so that might be why.

Overwhelming HP no longer works with body enhancement, which seems like a bug on its own.

[Wotans'Hammer]

Yes its Overwhelming HP , bugged or nerfed to hell . gives now around 2k hp for 18k shield .
Got from 40k to 22 k hp and for everyone who says that to much for 1 mod , you need 3 fully maxed mods on top of your hp and def mods to reach that .

[Danyel]

Welp I hope they fix this cause that's super lame, and here I was farming ult ajax...guess I can put that on hold....

[Grimzy]

Originally posted by Godot:

Originally posted by Grimzy:

Nothing was nerfed. There were 2 bugs related to him that were fixed so that might be why.

Overwhelming HP no longer works with body enhancement, which seems like a bug on its own.

I mean, Body Enhancement was bugged to if I understand correctly gave 50% more shield that it was supposed to. So if that was fixed and you lsot that 50% bugged bonus that would be why Overwhelming HP gives less right?

[Danyel]

They mentioned in the notes how they want the meta to change from season to season....

.....these little changes are making me think maybe they WILL nerf older characters to avoid too much power creep and try and make us keep running in the hamster wheel for new descendants.... dunno I could just be tin foil hatting though....

[Wotans'Hammer]

I think its more a scaling from the hp you get from overwhelming Hp , look like before it was scaling with the hp % mods and now not at all .
it does what it says otherwise 14 % of shield value to hp its about right 2k from 18k shield . But that would be a bad trade off if not multiplicative !
To reach 18k shield you need 2 maxed out shield mods too . Now Body Enhancement brings your def and shield up on your max hp , works only in the field . But now you hp does not go up at all from the extra shield you get from body enhancement it looks like .

[Wotans'Hammer]

Originally posted by Danyel:

They mentioned in the notes how they want the meta to change from season to season....

.....these little changes are making me think maybe they WILL nerf older characters to avoid too much power creep and try and make us keep running in the hamster wheel for new descendants.... dunno I could just be tin foil hatting though....

Loosing like 16k hp looks not like a little change to me and even if the body enhancement was 50% less , we should still have like 8 to 10k more hp , so something seems off .

[Danyel]

Originally posted by Wotans'Hammer:

Originally posted by Danyel:

They mentioned in the notes how they want the meta to change from season to season....

.....these little changes are making me think maybe they WILL nerf older characters to avoid too much power creep and try and make us keep running in the hamster wheel for new descendants.... dunno I could just be tin foil hatting though....

Loosing like 16k hp looks not like a little change to me and even if the body enhancement was 50% less , we should still have like 8 to 10k more hp , so something seems off .

Methinks you got stuck on the term "little changes" and thus missed context of my post.

[ALIARE]

Always lame to get an update and have your character at less than half the HP he was at before when you dumped millions of kuiper into it.

If it was bugged then fine, whatever. I would appreciate the mods telling you exacts of what its doing though. Transient mods are super vague. You get it upgraded and experiment, see what its doing, build around it, then they change how it works and whole build is messed up, dozens of hours of time lost :(

So shields are garbage.
HP has a low cap now as far as i can see.
Defense quits helping after around 30k or so.

Anyone have any new ideas on building a tank?

[Wotans'Hammer]

Tossed my shield mods and overwhelming out for now , unfortunately the slots are all set with catalysators that leavest not to much options but i tossed auto immunity in the mix , that gives 10% damage reduction on top of my 88k def and some more incoming healing .
than i use this status immunity mods depends on the colossus im fighting .

[Godot]

Originally posted by Grimzy:

Originally posted by Godot:

Overwhelming HP no longer works with body enhancement, which seems like a bug on its own.

I mean, Body Enhancement was bugged to if I understand correctly gave 50% more shield that it was supposed to. So if that was fixed and you lsot that 50% bugged bonus that would be why Overwhelming HP gives less right?

You misunderstand, it gives nothing with body enhancement, the two mods simply don't interact at all anymore.

Overwhelming HP still works with other mods, and having gone through some of the math the numbers are accurate, accounting for decimal rounding.

But Body Enhancement does nothing now. Try it yourself, take off all your mods, put on overwhelming HP. Check your hit points, then put on Body Enhancement and check again, the number will be the same.

A level 40 ultimate Ajax with a 504.9% HP boost (Increased HP, Stim Accelerant and Time Distribution) has 10579.7 health and 516 shields. This is calculated by multiplying your max health by 5.049 and adding the two values (1749*5.049)+1749 = 10579.7

Overwhelming HP is a base value, so to calculate your HP without any additional shields you use (516*0.142)+1749 = 1822.27 This is correct. Adjusting the prior values to use this new base HP (same calculation otherwise) gives you 11022.911 HP, which is rounded up in game. It's accurate so far. Relevant information as well, External Components also add to your base values.

Add Body Enhancement (10579.7 * 0.225) additional shields is 2380.4325, add your 516 base and you get 2896.4325 shields, game rounds down to .43. Overwhelming HP should, if it worked with Body Enhancement, give 14.2% of that as a base value equal to 411.3.

This means that your health calculation should be (2160.3*5.049) x 2160.3 with these mods, assuming all values are adding together as they previously have. The expected Value is 13067.65, but the in game value is... you guessed it, 11022.92. Body Enhancement's shields are no longer being calculated at all as part of Overwhelming HP.

This difference grows more pronounced the larger your base numbers become. For reference, the build my Ajax is running has a post patch health value of 24005.89 Health. This is calculated with a base health value of 3784 health (2035 HP from components) and 1299.8 Shields (Increased Shields). Remember our calculations. (1299.8*0.142)+3784 = 3968.57
(3968.57*5.049)+3968.57 = 24005.8799 (rounds up to 24005.89 in game)
Add Body Enhancement = No Change

What the value should be is:
(3784*0.225) + 1299.8 = 5084.025 (shield Value)
(5084.025*0.142) + 3784 = 4505.931
(4505.931*5.049)+4505.931 = 27256.376

It's still a far cry from the values we were getting before, but 3k health (or more if you have optimal Components) is like... half a Bunny's health bar. It's a lot of health to be missing for no reason, especially when half of Ajax's kit scales off his hit points and even achieving this many hit points trades his entire passive away.

[thegamingplumber]

Originally posted by Godot:

Originally posted by Grimzy:

I mean, Body Enhancement was bugged to if I understand correctly gave 50% more shield that it was supposed to. So if that was fixed and you lsot that 50% bugged bonus that would be why Overwhelming HP gives less right?

You misunderstand, it gives nothing with body enhancement, the two mods simply don't interact at all anymore.

Overwhelming HP still works with other mods, and having gone through some of the math the numbers are accurate, accounting for decimal rounding.

But Body Enhancement does nothing now. Try it yourself, take off all your mods, put on overwhelming HP. Check your hit points, then put on Body Enhancement and check again, the number will be the same.

A level 40 ultimate Ajax with a 504.9% HP boost (Increased HP, Stim Accelerant and Time Distribution) has 10579.7 health and 516 shields. This is calculated by multiplying your max health by 5.049 and adding the two values (1749*5.049)+1749 = 10579.7

Overwhelming HP is a base value, so to calculate your HP without any additional shields you use (516*0.142)+1749 = 1822.27 This is correct. Adjusting the prior values to use this new base HP (same calculation otherwise) gives you 11022.911 HP, which is rounded up in game. It's accurate so far. Relevant information as well, External Components also add to your base values.

Add Body Enhancement (10579.7 * 0.225) additional shields is 2380.4325, add your 516 base and you get 2896.4325 shields, game rounds down to .43. Overwhelming HP should, if it worked with Body Enhancement, give 14.2% of that as a base value equal to 411.3.

This means that your health calculation should be (2160.3*5.049) x 2160.3 with these mods, assuming all values are adding together as they previously have. The expected Value is 13067.65, but the in game value is... you guessed it, 11022.92. Body Enhancement's shields are no longer being calculated at all as part of Overwhelming HP.

This difference grows more pronounced the larger your base numbers become. For reference, the build my Ajax is running has a post patch health value of 24005.89 Health. This is calculated with a base health value of 3784 health (2035 HP from components) and 1299.8 Shields (Increased Shields). Remember our calculations. (1299.8*0.142)+3784 = 3968.57
(3968.57*5.049)+3968.57 = 24005.8799 (rounds up to 24005.89 in game)
Add Body Enhancement = No Change

What the value should be is:
(3784*0.225) + 1299.8 = 5084.025 (shield Value)
(5084.025*0.142) + 3784 = 4505.931
(4505.931*5.049)+4505.931 = 27256.376

It's still a far cry from the values we were getting before, but 3k health (or more if you have optimal Components) is like... half a Bunny's health bar. It's a lot of health to be missing for no reason, especially when half of Ajax's kit scales off his hit points and even achieving this many hit points trades his entire passive away.

so body enhancement is bugged now then?

[0.17 mph when threatened]

Originally posted by Godot:

Originally posted by Grimzy:

I mean, Body Enhancement was bugged to if I understand correctly gave 50% more shield that it was supposed to. So if that was fixed and you lsot that 50% bugged bonus that would be why Overwhelming HP gives less right?

You misunderstand, it gives nothing with body enhancement, the two mods simply don't interact at all anymore.

Overwhelming HP still works with other mods, and having gone through some of the math the numbers are accurate, accounting for decimal rounding.

But Body Enhancement does nothing now. Try it yourself, take off all your mods, put on overwhelming HP. Check your hit points, then put on Body Enhancement and check again, the number will be the same.

A level 40 ultimate Ajax with a 504.9% HP boost (Increased HP, Stim Accelerant and Time Distribution) has 10579.7 health and 516 shields. This is calculated by multiplying your max health by 5.049 and adding the two values (1749*5.049)+1749 = 10579.7

Overwhelming HP is a base value, so to calculate your HP without any additional shields you use (516*0.142)+1749 = 1822.27 This is correct. Adjusting the prior values to use this new base HP (same calculation otherwise) gives you 11022.911 HP, which is rounded up in game. It's accurate so far. Relevant information as well, External Components also add to your base values.

Add Body Enhancement (10579.7 * 0.225) additional shields is 2380.4325, add your 516 base and you get 2896.4325 shields, game rounds down to .43. Overwhelming HP should, if it worked with Body Enhancement, give 14.2% of that as a base value equal to 411.3.

This means that your health calculation should be (2160.3*5.049) x 2160.3 with these mods, assuming all values are adding together as they previously have. The expected Value is 13067.65, but the in game value is... you guessed it, 11022.92. Body Enhancement's shields are no longer being calculated at all as part of Overwhelming HP.

This difference grows more pronounced the larger your base numbers become. For reference, the build my Ajax is running has a post patch health value of 24005.89 Health. This is calculated with a base health value of 3784 health (2035 HP from components) and 1299.8 Shields (Increased Shields). Remember our calculations. (1299.8*0.142)+3784 = 3968.57
(3968.57*5.049)+3968.57 = 24005.8799 (rounds up to 24005.89 in game)
Add Body Enhancement = No Change

What the value should be is:
(3784*0.225) + 1299.8 = 5084.025 (shield Value)
(5084.025*0.142) + 3784 = 4505.931
(4505.931*5.049)+4505.931 = 27256.376

It's still a far cry from the values we were getting before, but 3k health (or more if you have optimal Components) is like... half a Bunny's health bar. It's a lot of health to be missing for no reason, especially when half of Ajax's kit scales off his hit points and even achieving this many hit points trades his entire passive away.

I don't even own Ajax but reading your post was oddly satisfying and I just wanted you to know that I appreciate you taking your time to put in the extra details.

[Godot]

Originally posted by thegamingplumber:

so body enhancement is bugged now then?

Only when used with Overwhelming HP, it's working correctly otherwise as far as I can tell.