Jayber is really bad.

[DrunkenHatter]

I love turret characters. Jayber brings shame to turret characters.

- Turrets REQUIRE certain mods to function. Range being the biggest one, an ability should not be useless without a maxed range mod.
- Turrets sometimes spawn without mod effects. About 1/3 of the time I drop my turret only for it to be at base range and completely unable to hit enemies.
- Turrets are made of paper mache. They go down in one hit from a colossi or five hits from swarming mobs. They scale off your max health but good luck finding room for a health mod with how much you need to invest in basic function mods. Especially the healing turret, it folds when an enemy looks at it funny.
- Upgrade pistol is slow and clunky to use. It takes FOREVER to deploy and even then your shots can get eaten up if an ally walks in front of your turret.
- Splitting buff duration/turret duration is impossible to manage. The pistol will only either apply the buff if there is no buff running or add turret duration if the buff is running. This leads to having to sit and wait for the buff to run out or letting the turret be unbuffed with a quarter of it's damage while the pistol is on cooldown.
- With how much you need to cycle pistol/turret deploy/turret explode, you end up with 0 mana most of the time outside of point defense missions. Can be fixed with mods. If you have room.

Overall Jayber is pretty bad compared to every other character. And if there is a Bunny on the team? Might as well afk. Turrets need a rework to either be decent at base or just make the 3 buff your turrets without having to shoot them.

[BEOWULF]

Wrong. Jayber is OP! Dude needs a nerv. Build him properly.

[Asdf]

Uh. Is OP just said that Jayber not need a nerf?!

[SolusiRadikal]

Once you reach certain number of catalyst & energizer, you won't even knew that Jayber has 4 skill because you keep spamming those turret every 10 second that has 8-9k hp for 20 energy cost

[Gillium]

The upgrade pistol thing is what I dislike the most. I want to set-it-and-forget-it not have to babysit them.

[Eightyeye]

Originally posted by DrunkenHatter:

I love turret characters. Jayber brings shame to turret characters.

- Turrets REQUIRE certain mods to function. Range being the biggest one, an ability should not be useless without a maxed range mod.
- Turrets sometimes spawn without mod effects. About 1/3 of the time I drop my turret only for it to be at base range and completely unable to hit enemies.
- Turrets are made of paper mache. They go down in one hit from a colossi or five hits from swarming mobs. They scale off your max health but good luck finding room for a health mod with how much you need to invest in basic function mods. Especially the healing turret, it folds when an enemy looks at it funny.
- Upgrade pistol is slow and clunky to use. It takes FOREVER to deploy and even then your shots can get eaten up if an ally walks in front of your turret.
- Splitting buff duration/turret duration is impossible to manage. The pistol will only either apply the buff if there is no buff running or add turret duration if the buff is running. This leads to having to sit and wait for the buff to run out or letting the turret be unbuffed with a quarter of it's damage while the pistol is on cooldown.
- With how much you need to cycle pistol/turret deploy/turret explode, you end up with 0 mana most of the time outside of point defense missions. Can be fixed with mods. If you have room.

I have mained Jayber since day one and he is far from weak, he may not have a 2 second boss delete build like Lepic or whatnot but he is by no means weak.

Point 1 - Well i agree the turrets need more base range, expanding ability's kinda is the case for "Any" build not just jayber.

Point 2 - The spawning without mod effects is a known bug and will eventually be fixed it was reported in discord.

Point 3 - Turrets spawn with a portion of your HP/Def/Shields, so if they are "Paper mache" then you are the problem, my Jayber has 21000 hp and 20000 def (40% breakpoint) for roughly 37k effective HP, my turrets only die fast to 7/8 lvl100 mini gunners otherwise they don't die quickly even in colossi battles.

Point 4 - You can animation cancel out of the multi gun animation by rolling.

Point 5 - If properly built with duration/cooldown mods you can easily build & buff two assault turrets and keep them alive forever you may just need to collect MP pots from the kills to feed constantly buffing/extending them

Point 6 - While Jayber can be MP starved at times, it normally only happens (if ever) in "some" boss fights where adds don't spawn quickly, but that is 90% fixed once your durability and skill duration is fixed so you don't have to constantly redeploy them.

TLDR: Most of the issues you referenced are simply build problems not class problems, a properly built & "Played" Jeyber is a S tier character and welcomed in any activity, he only falls short in Intercept battles and that is "only" to one shot builds.

[SolusiRadikal]

Originally posted by Eightyeye:

Point 6 - While Jayber can be MP starved at times, it normally only happens (if ever) in "some" boss fights where adds don't spawn quickly, but that is 90% fixed once your durability and skill duration is fixed so you don't have to constantly redeploy them.

Nah it's just more efficient to spam Jayber turret every 10 second after using 4th skill since it will double the duration and make every turret enhanced on spawn. Slap skill cost reduction as well to make your turret cost less than 23 energy + assault turret module and make your overall increase your total DPS on the long run.

[Eightyeye]

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Originally posted by Eightyeye:

Point 6 - While Jayber can be MP starved at times, it normally only happens (if ever) in "some" boss fights where adds don't spawn quickly, but that is 90% fixed once your durability and skill duration is fixed so you don't have to constantly redeploy them.

Nah it's just more efficient to spam Jayber turret every 10 second after using 4th skill since it will double the duration and make every turret enhanced on spawn. Slap skill cost reduction as well to make your turret cost less than 23 energy + assault turret module and make your overall increase your total DPS on the long run.

Yes and no.

While your right that for more time limited or mobile cases like a boss/collosi fight it makes sense to spawn enhanced turrets after using your 4th skill during the 30 seconds, but any other case where your holding a zone or killing waves of spawns, you don't necessarily need the constant AOE dmg field to kill trash or need to reposition the turret all the time, and a 4 shot enhanced turret/s can last 2+ min without any further buffs, so easy to keep them up/alive. But how you use the mutigun/turrets and 4th skill really depends on the content your doing or the mission/situation your in.

It is what makes jayber so flexible.

[DrunkenHatter]

Originally posted by Eightyeye:

Originally posted by DrunkenHatter:

I love turret characters. Jayber brings shame to turret characters.

- Turrets REQUIRE certain mods to function. Range being the biggest one, an ability should not be useless without a maxed range mod.
- Turrets sometimes spawn without mod effects. About 1/3 of the time I drop my turret only for it to be at base range and completely unable to hit enemies.
- Turrets are made of paper mache. They go down in one hit from a colossi or five hits from swarming mobs. They scale off your max health but good luck finding room for a health mod with how much you need to invest in basic function mods. Especially the healing turret, it folds when an enemy looks at it funny.
- Upgrade pistol is slow and clunky to use. It takes FOREVER to deploy and even then your shots can get eaten up if an ally walks in front of your turret.
- Splitting buff duration/turret duration is impossible to manage. The pistol will only either apply the buff if there is no buff running or add turret duration if the buff is running. This leads to having to sit and wait for the buff to run out or letting the turret be unbuffed with a quarter of it's damage while the pistol is on cooldown.
- With how much you need to cycle pistol/turret deploy/turret explode, you end up with 0 mana most of the time outside of point defense missions. Can be fixed with mods. If you have room.

I have mained Jayber since day one and he is far from weak, he may not have a 2 second boss delete build like Lepic or whatnot but he is by no means weak.

Point 1 - Well i agree the turrets need more base range, expanding ability's kinda is the case for "Any" build not just jayber.

Point 2 - The spawning without mod effects is a known bug and will eventually be fixed it was reported in discord.

Point 3 - Turrets spawn with a portion of your HP/Def/Shields, so if they are "Paper mache" then you are the problem, my Jayber has 21000 hp and 20000 def (40% breakpoint) for roughly 37k effective HP, my turrets only die fast to 7/8 lvl100 mini gunners otherwise they don't die quickly even in colossi battles.

Point 4 - You can animation cancel out of the multi gun animation by rolling.

Point 5 - If properly built with duration/cooldown mods you can easily build & buff two assault turrets and keep them alive forever you may just need to collect MP pots from the kills to feed constantly buffing/extending them

Point 6 - While Jayber can be MP starved at times, it normally only happens (if ever) in "some" boss fights where adds don't spawn quickly, but that is 90% fixed once your durability and skill duration is fixed so you don't have to constantly redeploy them.

TLDR: Most of the issues you referenced are simply build problems not class problems, a properly built & "Played" Jeyber is a S tier character and welcomed in any activity, he only falls short in Intercept battles and that is "only" to one shot builds.

TLDR: I should not have to have a max build to be effective while other characters are good at half build.

[MarineOpferman]

Originally posted by Eightyeye:

Originally posted by DrunkenHatter:

I love turret characters. Jayber brings shame to turret characters.

- Turrets REQUIRE certain mods to function. Range being the biggest one, an ability should not be useless without a maxed range mod.
- Turrets sometimes spawn without mod effects. About 1/3 of the time I drop my turret only for it to be at base range and completely unable to hit enemies.
- Turrets are made of paper mache. They go down in one hit from a colossi or five hits from swarming mobs. They scale off your max health but good luck finding room for a health mod with how much you need to invest in basic function mods. Especially the healing turret, it folds when an enemy looks at it funny.
- Upgrade pistol is slow and clunky to use. It takes FOREVER to deploy and even then your shots can get eaten up if an ally walks in front of your turret.
- Splitting buff duration/turret duration is impossible to manage. The pistol will only either apply the buff if there is no buff running or add turret duration if the buff is running. This leads to having to sit and wait for the buff to run out or letting the turret be unbuffed with a quarter of it's damage while the pistol is on cooldown.
- With how much you need to cycle pistol/turret deploy/turret explode, you end up with 0 mana most of the time outside of point defense missions. Can be fixed with mods. If you have room.

I have mained Jayber since day one and he is far from weak, he may not have a 2 second boss delete build like Lepic or whatnot but he is by no means weak.

Point 1 - Well i agree the turrets need more base range, expanding ability's kinda is the case for "Any" build not just jayber.

Point 2 - The spawning without mod effects is a known bug and will eventually be fixed it was reported in discord.

Point 3 - Turrets spawn with a portion of your HP/Def/Shields, so if they are "Paper mache" then you are the problem, my Jayber has 21000 hp and 20000 def (40% breakpoint) for roughly 37k effective HP, my turrets only die fast to 7/8 lvl100 mini gunners otherwise they don't die quickly even in colossi battles.

Point 4 - You can animation cancel out of the multi gun animation by rolling.

Point 5 - If properly built with duration/cooldown mods you can easily build & buff two assault turrets and keep them alive forever you may just need to collect MP pots from the kills to feed constantly buffing/extending them

Point 6 - While Jayber can be MP starved at times, it normally only happens (if ever) in "some" boss fights where adds don't spawn quickly, but that is 90% fixed once your durability and skill duration is fixed so you don't have to constantly redeploy them.

TLDR: Most of the issues you referenced are simply build problems not class problems, a properly built & "Played" Jeyber is a S tier character and welcomed in any activity, he only falls short in Intercept battles and that is "only" to one shot builds.

Sorry he DOES need o be buffed...or more precisely the mods need to either A either need to be actually WORKING...(no joke some of the dimension mods give 0% buffs..and his turret sync which is SUPPOSED to give a 20% buff...gives a whopping total of 0% bufff.... yes 0% also all of the modifier buffs for singular and non attribute give a quarter of the percentage that it is SUPPOSED to give...I am not sure why they are not buffing properly but they aren't.

[DudeBro69]

Definitely needs a buff

[Lyote]

Originally posted by Eightyeye:

Originally posted by SolusiRadikal:

Nah it's just more efficient to spam Jayber turret every 10 second after using 4th skill since it will double the duration and make every turret enhanced on spawn. Slap skill cost reduction as well to make your turret cost less than 23 energy + assault turret module and make your overall increase your total DPS on the long run.

Yes and no.

While your right that for more time limited or mobile cases like a boss/collosi fight it makes sense to spawn enhanced turrets after using your 4th skill during the 30 seconds, but any other case where your holding a zone or killing waves of spawns, you don't necessarily need the constant AOE dmg field to kill trash or need to reposition the turret all the time, and a 4 shot enhanced turret/s can last 2+ min without any further buffs, so easy to keep them up/alive. But how you use the mutigun/turrets and 4th skill really depends on the content your doing or the mission/situation your in.

It is what makes jayber so flexible.

You'll want the Enhanced AOE running even for single target encounters because it pulses that damage out while ALSO doing normal shots, and since the per tick AoE is basically the same damage as the actual shot, youre running at half or less of the turrets damage potential against a single target.

His power spikes dramatically with the Health Turret Transmod flipping into another Assault Turret.

If you've never tried it, give this a whirl:
+50% Duration.
-50% Cooldown Reduction.
+96% Range.

Result:
- Overhaul goes to 40s Cooldown, 45s duration.
- Enhance Turret lasts 15 seconds at 12meters of AoE
- Assault Turret cooldown is 10s.

You can quite literally just drop a sacrificial turret and burn it immediately to get Overhaul running and then just desummon and place new Assault Turrets where they're needed for the rest of the run.

This is significantly less screwing around with pulling out the enhance gun, finding the turret under the mass of mobs and firing into it. (Only for the shot to get bodyblocked by an ally anyways lmao)

Gets even better with the Assault Turret transmod for 2 of them instead of a medical turret.
Rotating 2 turrets on a 10 second cooldown let's Jayber be incredibly mobile through a run, deploying and redeploying Enhance turrets as and where needed instead of having to do the full: Summon Turret > Equip gun > Enhance Turret process.

The best thing about this minimal requirement in terms of capacity and mod slots is that it is doable with no EA or Catalysts.
The only thing you sacrifice is a bit of health and defense. Or the range if you want. The only necessary part of that setup is the CDR and Duration.

Its not gonna be HM speedrun optimal of course, but it's still quite capable with such minimal investment.

[Xenomorph - Drone]

My guy, we all know, that out of 15 characters - 10 needs a buff, 1 need a nerf, and 4 are totally fine.

[spyke2009]

JFC, are people seriously defending jayber in his current state? Using "animation cancels" as excuses for his 3 having the clunk? Stating that when he's massively invested in, he isn't complete rubbish?

No, come off it now, stop it.

Don't misunderstand, a lot of what has been said IS kind of true. But it's no excuse for the character to have been released in THIS state and he needs changes.

I heard his most nuke-esque build was nerfed into the ground due to over performance in the beta, not sure if that's true but regardless. They could have at least made sure he wasn't so buggy and they could have addressed how he is simply a complete clunky mess while they were at it too.

It's like going in to fix a car engine, claiming to have fixed it then when someone turns it on it makes a rattling sound. Because there's a few pieces that the mechanic didn't put back in right. Then, when you bring it up on their social media. Another customer, suggests you blast heavy metal music while you are driving, in order to avoid the obviously terrible rattling sounds. Stating also the engine is "S" tier, if you stick a load of aftermarket modifications on it yourself and invest another couple of grand into it.

Jaybers clunk ALONE relegates him to C tier, B to high B tier if we're to REALLY push it. When he's COMPLETELY maxed out.

Look, he has his positives even in this state. But I want you all to repeat after me:

"Clunky skills in fast paced looter shooters, are BAD. Slow or long animations, are BAD. Animation locks, ARE VERY BAD"

[Lyote]

Originally posted by spyke2009:

JFC, are people seriously defending jayber in his current state? Using "animation cancels" as excuses for his 3 having the clunk? Stating that when he's massively invested in, he isn't complete rubbish?

No, come off it now, stop it.

Don't misunderstand, a lot of what has been said IS kind of true. But it's no excuse for the character to have been released in THIS state and he needs changes.

I heard his most nuke-esque build was nerfed into the ground due to over performance in the beta, not sure if that's true but regardless. They could have at least made sure he wasn't so buggy and they could have addressed how he is simply a complete clunky mess while they were at it too.

It's like going in to fix a car engine, claiming to have fixed it then when someone turns it on it makes a rattling sound. Because there's a few pieces that the mechanic didn't put back in right. Then, when you bring it up on their social media. Another customer, suggests you blast heavy metal music while you are driving, in order to avoid the obviously terrible rattling sounds. Stating also the engine is "S" tier, if you stick a load of aftermarket modifications on it yourself and invest another couple of grand into it.

Jaybers clunk ALONE relegates him to C tier, B to high B tier if we're to REALLY push it. When he's COMPLETELY maxed out.

Look, he has his positives even in this state. But I want you all to repeat after me:

"Clunky skills in fast paced looter shooters, are BAD. Slow or long animations, are BAD. Animation locks, ARE VERY BAD"

Meanwhile, i gave a build that removes any need for the clunky gun that comes online with just 5 mods, one of which doesnt even need to be upgraded and the whole setup fits without needing EA or Cats.
EA and Cats just make it more potent, as it should.

His biggest issue is in how long it takes him to get set up, but once hes rolling he is quite powerful. Not Bunny levels of brainless map deletion, but pretty good nonetheless.

He has a slow start into some pretty potent damage. He doesnt need 'buffs'
No one is arguing against QOL to how he gets setup. Some polish on his skill usage is all he really needs.

[Mister Wiggles]

He is only bad because his kit is fundamentally broken currently. Fixes coming with the Ult Valby patch, though.