Stacking shields

[Delphinus]

So is it worth to get shield buffs are they worth it. By that i meaning focusing on shields only not getting shields buffs with def.

[Mordtziel]

I'm not exactly grasping what you're asking here. But in general, shields only have any real value on Kyle and Enzo. As they're the only ones that can either do something with it or recover them at a decent rate.

[jandraelune]

Unless you're running Kyle, shields are 100% useless

[Dusty_Monk]

I ran a bunny shield build and it worked fine until it didn't. The main issue was that if you're downed and someone rescues you you get full HP but 0 shields so I'd be rescued only to immediately get downed again.

Edit:

I want it to be clear that I was using the transcendent module that gives bunny shield regen on her 2. When downed I would attempt to speed away to generate shields
using the 2, but if there was an aoe under me ticking for a small amount of damage when I was rescued then I just went immediately back to downed.

[Delphinus]

Originally posted by Mordtziel:

I'm not exactly grasping what you're asking here. But in general, shields only have any real value on Kyle and Enzo. As they're the only ones that can either do something with it or recover them at a decent rate.

I mean full shield build only focusing shields

[Delphinus]

Originally posted by Dusty_Monk:

I ran a bunny shield build and it worked fine until it didn't. The main issue was that if you're downed and someone rescues you you get full HP but 0 shields so I'd be rescued only to immediately get downed again.

Right without good def and HP you be whacked easily makes sense

[spyke2009]

Originally posted by Delphinus:

So is it worth to get shield buffs are they worth it. By that i meaning focusing on shields only not getting shields buffs with def.

Not useless, but you won't get anywhere NEAR the same value from it as modding for hp bonuses early on and they suck until you're levelled a bit as well just in terms of base scaling. One of the primary reasons for this, in regards let's just say "bossing" on collosi. Is that there is NO shield restoration drop and for mobbing, shield collector the shield version of hp collector. Is locked behind luck and combining mods, best as I can tell.

Support mods like the gold mod that takes hp to reduce shields, probably to avail of walking the tightrope. Is an odd one as well, with shields you REALLY need to not only gear around them which is difficult. But also, to be on a descendant that can amplify that focus or get around the shortcomings of it by restoring them or in kyles case, swapping his mitigation to the magnetic force bar. And away from his shield as they also double as his mana in essence.

SOME descendants such as yujin, amplify their value in himself and in others, because of how their kit works. Though I'm STILL trying to figure out the in's and outs of exactly what everything is working off in regards how it does it, in particular his 2 debuff and effect. There's a lot of odd intricacies in some senses and its description is unclear. Though I could simply be overthinking it.

defense on the other hand, I think is a little bit overrated and hits diminishing returns quite early. Stacking it isn't as effective as people seem to think imho. If you do stack it, and minmax for it. Then once you hit 30-40k you're better off using the -10% or so final dmg mod as that effectively will give you the next "tier" of defence.

Still... HP is KING at the moment. For most descendants and early game as you build and want survival in the meantime. The base stats are better to multiply both on gear and innately and... if your goal is high uptime on bosses for mucho sweaty dps. Again, you should be building into hp. With def as a consideration to a certain point. As you can get high returns just nuking adds and getting red cubes for hp.

Originally posted by Dusty_Monk:

I ran a bunny shield build and it worked fine until it didn't. The main issue was that if you're downed and someone rescues you you get full HP but 0 shields so I'd be rescued only to immediately get downed again.

Just like the key to immortality is... not dying. The key to fixing this problem is to not get downed.

I'm joking, this is an incredibly important aspect too. Unless that rezzer is a kyle... who times his 3 usage to give you a big shield boost. Which is unlikely but not a bad idea for kyles to consider. Then you're going to get downed again VERY fast as a shield build.

Also, dot immunity makes shields a LOT more effective folks. They again don't have an easy way to recharge them without some niche hp cost mod that's yet to be used that often. So those dots eating your shield are mucho bad. Really, shields are best used as hit and run playstyles and you REALLY need to gear a lot into shield recovery stats on gear and learn to dip out of combat and know how to make up for that downtime in terms of your dps that's missing from the fight.

Ok for a yujin that's gonna aoe heal and provide immortality practically to you all to dip in and out of combat and make up for it with amped damage.

But not very viable for a bunny to do so.

[Mistfox]

There is another use for shields and that is in those boss fights where no added enemies come in, which means you got no HP healing, shields, as bad as they are, regen automatically so I'd say it's a niche build for the rare times when you are in a long fight and it's basically a slugging match.

[Boss]

I think shield builds aren't super niche, but they don't seem to have stats to back them up, both in mods and in the equipment.

Bosses don't focus on you forever, so you'll auto heal back to full over time, something you can't do with HP. But as people have pointed out, HP stats are just better. You can get an extra 800+ HP on a piece of equipment and mods that give you 200% + a ~100%-200% HP bonus in addition. Versus like, 36% percent and 60s. Like. It's not even close.

[spyke2009]

Originally posted by Boss:

I think shield builds aren't super niche, but they don't seem to have stats to back them up, both in mods and in the equipment.

Bosses don't focus on you forever, so you'll auto heal back to full over time, something you can't do with HP. But as people have pointed out, HP stats are just better. You can get an extra 800+ HP on a piece of equipment and mods that give you 200% + a ~100%-200% HP bonus in addition. Versus like, 36% percent and 60s. Like. It's not even close.

Exactly, there seems to be a "tax" on the fact shield regenerate inherently. I think the reason why people hate them in mobbing open world missions, is they scale VERY badly against being peppered with damage and can't be instantly restored mid combat and on the fly like hp can.

Has anyone tested the utility and value of "crit resistance" in regards mobbing with shields and hp survival stat focus, or is that just a super niche pointless stat to bother with as crits come from only specific enemies like "snipers" that are usually nuked out of orbit quickly anyways?

Something tells me hp > defence > shields is the priority for non collosi fights where you take sustained gunfire anyways. with shields becoming more valuable on a lot of descendants only on collosi for the reasoning you outlined.

There's also something missing from the game, that warframe has in regards shield stats. No, not free shields on rez or "shield gating" mechanics. But shield regeneration mods.

To my knowledge, NONE exist. Nothing to speed up the rate at which they start to recharge. You can only boost the "rate" at which they do numerically WHEN they do.

Though I do need to do more testing tbh to be absolutely sure.

[Mordtziel]

I think shield builds aren't super niche, but they don't seem to have stats to back them up, both in mods and in the equipment.

Shields kinda are super niche. As they're really only effective when..
A) Health isn't readily available.
B) You can reduce damage intake by enough that your shields don't pop.
C) You can regen enough shields by the time you're hit again

And if we delve into those...
Health is readily available if there are any trash mobs or a Yujin or to a lesser extent, Jayber.
You can certainly reduce enemy damage below your max shields, however, this is a very significant investment against some enemies like say getting point blanked by Alzaroke or Seudo who can blast you for like 8k raw. So you can't really use your descendant abilities due to lack of mods unless they're based on shields.
Finally, the regen is god awful unless you're Enzo or run Shield Collector and there's trash. But if there's trash, you should have an HP build.

Shield needs a lot of help at this point. If the in combat shield regen stat looked like the out of combat shield regen stat, we might be able to have a talking point, but who cares even then if I have 100k shields but only 18 shield regen per tick?

[Krome Skulz]

Just an FYI, there is transcendent mod for Sharen where her stealth uses shields instead of MP. So builds with that mod and stealth killing gameplay would use shields.

Overcharged Edge
"Modifies Active Camouflage to consume Energy Shields instead of MP. Ambush damage increases by the amount of Energy Shields consumed."

[spyke2009]

Originally posted by Krome Skulz:

Just an FYI, there is transcendent mod for Sharen where her stealth uses shields instead of MP. So builds with that mod and stealth killing gameplay would use shields.

Overcharged Edge
"Modifies Active Camouflage to consume Energy Shields instead of MP. Ambush damage increases by the amount of Energy Shields consumed."

Yes and you can do some SPICY things with that in terms of nuking bosses apparently. Will still require building sharen up though, low prio for a lot of people as she's just a buffer for outposts for many right now with farmer/mobber characters being their main priority.

[Krome Skulz]

Originally posted by spyke2009:

There's also something missing from the game, that warframe has in regards shield stats. No, not free shields on rez or "shield gating" mechanics. But shield regeneration mods.

To my knowledge, NONE exist. Nothing to speed up the rate at which they start to recharge. You can only boost the "rate" at which they do numerically WHEN they do.

Though I do need to do more testing tbh to be absolutely sure.

I looked this up in game because you got me wondering. There is a mod called "Shield Collector". It reads:

"When defeating an enemy, instantly recover 6.3% of max shields (Cooldwon 11s)"

Now, that is an unranked mod stats and I'm assuming it would either increase the shield % recovered and/or reduce the CD. But her's the thing, when I click on acquisition info it gives me nothing. Either the tooltip is bugged or it is not currently in game.

There is another mod called "Conditional Recharge" that uses 4% of max HP to recharge 3% max shields on an unranked mod so if you can recover health it would work, though if you are at 1 HP it does not work.

And an alternative mod for a shield build could be one called "Iron Will" that when your shields are at 0 your defense is 32% on an unranked mod. So could replace a defense mod as an alternative.

[Mordtziel]

I looked this up in game because you got me wondering. There is a mod called "Shield Collector". It reads:

"When defeating an enemy, instantly recover 6.3% of max shields (Cooldwon 11s)"

Now, that is an unranked mod stats and I'm assuming it would either increase the shield % recovered and/or reduce the CD. But her's the thing, when I click on acquisition info it gives me nothing. Either the tooltip is bugged or it is not currently in game.

Leveling the mod reduces the cooldown. At max, that's 2 seconds. And you get it from combining mods. If you want to try for it, combine 4 ultimate cerulean descendant mods for your best odds at it.

[Player Zer01]

shields fall off late game and in hard mode. its best to run defense and hp. the only character to use shields on is kyle.