Does defense ACTUALLY do anything?

[UnwieldyRex]

Seriously, rocking 22k+ defense, 1600+ shields, 800+ hp (all depends on the Descendant being used) and can get absolutely shredded even in Normal White Knight Gulch by as little as four enemies???????? Rocking over double the resistance for a Colossus with these stats, still get dropped like a fly with one hit, even with the mid level ones as if I have zero defense (I'm at Hard Dead Bride, fyi, but even normal devourer can still absolutely wreck me)?

Something seems broken here. I'm seeing the stats, but I'm not seeing the benefit of the stats...

[PølseJuice]

Originally posted by FemboyMilk:

110k Def
10k HP
1 Shield

110k is to much brother, the sweetspot is around 60 -80k :)

60k def
50k hp
1 shield
Ajax

[_Atr4Mør5]

Originally posted by †LILITH~Café†:

I need to know how def work the game tell us def can reduction damage up to 80% but how much damage reduction I have with xxx DEF

Linear scaling
2k DEF = 10% reducing incoming damage
4k DEF = 20%
8k DEF = 30%
16k DEF = 40%
32k DEF = 50%
64k DEF = 60%

Goes higher than ~60k is pointless except tanky builds/heroes like Ajax.

+ you need to consider the starting values of the character

[Shadowness]

You need hp. Equipping hp components and quadrupling your hp is 4x your old hp. Quadrupling your defense is 19% more damage reduction so 1.19x of your old hp effectively.

Max out your hp first, then substat into defense. But hp should always be your first thing to try to scale up for survivability. You only really want to go into defense when you start hitting diminishing returns on hp increases from your components. Usually with 3 hp components, the 4th one can be a defense one.

I run 2 maxed out hp mods as a minimum on all descendants. This brings the hp to 15k-20k on non ajax descendants with 100 gear. If you're not 100, this is a 450%+ hp increase on 3 hp components.

[Rooxon]

I played a build up till today that had like 29k DEF, 4kHP - now I tried out a build with 6kDEF and 16kHP - I can tank so much better. No modules for DEF, the total 6k is across my external components - still need better rolls for 3 of them. Hard Mode Colossi are now doable easy peasy, don't even mod for those resistances and tank. (Tho I do have at least 2.5k resistances or better in the external components for a decent base).

[LewdestRoadCone]

does defense get included for shield damage or just against flesh?

[Monk]

Originally posted by KitKat:

Originally posted by Grognak:

I Warframe armor(def) can reach a plateau where it still increases but not as much:
1500 armor reduces dmg by ~83%
3000 armor reduces dmg by ~91%
not sure if TFD does the same but I wouldnt be surprised if it is atleast similar
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor?so=search

According to in-game tooltip of DEF stat in TFD, it maxes out at 80% dmg reduction. Doesn't state at which numbers though...

No it doesn't.

The max you can have your defence lowered by is 80%, there is no defence cap, but, diminishing returns means you'll hit a soft cap around 50k

[xXBulletJusticeXx]

Originally posted by Lewdest Road Cone:

does defense get included for shield damage or just against flesh?

Some say it does some say it doesnt. Either way, HP scales better than shields and you get HP drops from mobs. So HP is easier to manage in the long run.

[FPDevilTech]

Shield is useless. Aim for 32k defence and rest HP.

[paxtheconfused]

Originally posted by Lamiosa:

I have over 30k DEF + def bonus and 10 K health with Gley, no shield. But I saw bunnies falling everywhere, also a matter of descendant. Basically DEF substracts the incomming damage up to 80% and shield is like additional health.

this is incorrect.

Defense gives you a 10% damage reduction at roughly 2000 (100-10%=90)
at 4000 you get another 10% reduction but exponential decay (90-10%=81)
at 8000 -10 % exponential decay (81-10%=72.9 rounds to 73)
at 16000 -10% ED (72.9-10%=65.61 rounds to 66)

This is why around 30-50K def is the "soft cap" for most characters def stats, as reaching 60-100k is just impractical for another defense increase (unless you are Ajax as his skill scale with Def)

The formula for elemental resist breaks down to he soft cap being about 4-6k for about a 9-13% damage decrease from elemental damage which is why wasting kuiper on the antibody mods is a trap when you should just farm the elemental debuff immunity and the appropriate elemental resistance on an external component as most elemental damage comes from the debuffs

Auxiliary Power=Fire resistance + heat release
Sensor=Chill resistance + antifreeze solution
Memory=Electric resistance + insulated conductor
Processor=Toxin resistance + Perfect antivenom

Generally the breakdown of stat importance is HP>DEF>anything else>Shield

As for the -80 tooltip It says "maximum efficiency for effect that REDUCE DEFENSE is -80%"
This means that effect that reduce defense (example Devotions mark from the legendary nazeistra's devotion weapon, or the Kingfisher enemy's debuff) can only remove 80% of the defense stat for purpose of damage calculation. You can test the numbers yourself or just go watch the ryechew gaming channel for his breakdowns behind the games math if you like.

This is his DEF video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9icoHau-Uxc&t=280s

[AlienJay]

White knight gulch is where difficulty ramps up . I was able to solo a lot of stuff there on Ajax because I focused on HP, but some of it I still needed help or I wouldn’t be able to finish the mission .

[Mister Wiggles]

Originally posted by Lewdest Road Cone:

does defense get included for shield damage or just against flesh?

Defence and damage reduction are factored in for shields, the issue is you can't really get enough to warrant investing in them. Just stick with scaling Def to 20k (50k if you're Ajax or Kyle) then HP the rest of the way.

I

[p00se2]

resistances as useless as shield ?

[Mister Wiggles]

Originally posted by xXBulletJusticeXx:

Originally posted by Lewdest Road Cone:

does defense get included for shield damage or just against flesh?

Some say it does some say it doesnt. Either way, HP scales better than shields and you get HP drops from mobs. So HP is easier to manage in the long run.

It does indeed factor in DR and general defence. The issue with shields is the pool is so much smaller compared to hp and defence and you can't recover them for the most part of you are taking damage.

Until they buff them Kyle is the only character you should spec into for shields.

[Mister Wiggles]

Originally posted by p00se2:

resistances as useless as shield ? :lunar2019deadpanpig:

No.

Aim for about 5k and you should be fine. Easy to do with one component and then a module to boost it.

[KitKat]

Originally posted by Monk:

Originally posted by KitKat:

According to in-game tooltip of DEF stat in TFD, it maxes out at 80% dmg reduction. Doesn't state at which numbers though...

No it doesn't.

The max you can have your defence lowered by is 80%, there is no defence cap, but, diminishing returns means you'll hit a soft cap around 50k

Yup. I know now. I was wrong. Same as a lot of other people who read that rather misleading description in-game :D